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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Does this sound like any country you know?...
    #789977 - 08/01/02 08:21 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." - Julius Caesar"


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (08/01/02 08:22 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: Rono]
    #789997 - 08/01/02 08:33 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Good quote.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: Rono]
    #790012 - 08/01/02 08:40 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

There are alot of similarities between the Ancient Roman empire and the present day American "empire"...glad to see that people haven't changed in 2000 years. Sheep are still sheep...


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinepolitikill
journeyman

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 72
Loc: THC, Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: Rono]
    #790142 - 08/01/02 09:41 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I also find it interesting that an act that has to do with the suspension of basic political freedoms is called "the Patriot Act". Needless to say this act has very little to do with being "patriotic" ...


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Censorship: ahh, McCarthyism with a smiley face



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InvisibleGabbaDj
BTH
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,448
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: politikill]
    #790930 - 08/01/02 04:27 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

HAHAHahahahahah...
OOOOooooh my god... That is the best thing I have EVER seen.


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG          C8.com                    http://www.beatsopjefiets.com/   


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Offlinepolitikill
journeyman

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 72
Loc: THC, Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: GabbaDj]
    #791829 - 08/02/02 04:58 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Hey thanks GabbaDJ, I like it too... and your chick shaking her ass around isn't too shaby either...
Politikill


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Censorship: ahh, McCarthyism with a smiley face



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: GabbaDj]
    #792586 - 08/02/02 01:22 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I hate to admit this Gabba, but even I found that pic to be funny as hell.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhenix
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #797906 - 08/05/02 02:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I've always wanted to write a comparison of the Roman Empire and American Empire but that would take years of research and a much deeper understanding of the world. Maybe when I'm like 50 I'll try something that massive.

Bush is taking us to Fascism and 95% of Americans don't seem to care.


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Anonymous

Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: Phenix]
    #797937 - 08/05/02 02:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Bush is taking us to Fascism and 95% of Americans don't seem to care.
He's not doing it by himself, the legislature, media and anybody who asks the government to take care of them are helping.


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Offlinemr freedom
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 232
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: Phenix]
    #798031 - 08/05/02 03:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I like to help those that wish to learn. Learning new material can be a daunting task and, as such, I have taken the liberty of removing the study of the fall of the Roman empire from you. Here is a brief synopsis, followed by, an obvious essay area for you to fill in ONLY those areas of comparison that you have witnessed in your life. This should help you in your studious endeavors without the need to wait for decades. Don't worry, this is NOT a graded exercise. However, please do try to spell as correctly as possible and use proper punctuation ie. no 100 word sentences please.


Reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire
All left Rome open to outside invaders
adapted from History Alive material
There were many reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire. Each one intertwined with the next. Many even blame the introduction of Christianity for the decline. Christianity made many Roman citizens into pacifists, making it more difficult to defend against the barbarian attackers. Also money used to build churches could have been used to maintain the empire. Although some argue that Christianity may have provided some morals and values for a declining civilization and therefore may have actually prolonged the imperial era.

Decline in Morals and Values

Those morals and values that kept together the Roman legions and thus the empire could not be maintained towards the end of the empire. Crimes of violence made the streets of the larger cities unsafe. Even during PaxRomana there were 32,000 prostitutes in Rome. Emperors like Nero and Caligula became infamous for wasting money on lavish parties where guests ate and drank until they became ill. The most popular amusement was watching the gladiatorial combats in the Colosseum. These were attended by the poor, the rich, and frequently the emperor himself. As gladiators fought, vicious cries and curses were heard from the audience. One contest after another was staged in the course of a single day. Should the ground become too soaked with blood, it was covered over with a fresh layer of sand and the performance went on.

Public Health

There were many public health and environmental problems. Many of the wealthy had water brought to their homes through lead pipes. Previously the aqueducts had even purified the water but at the end lead pipes were thought to be preferable. The wealthy death rate was very high. The continuous interaction of people at the Colosseum, the blood and death probable spread disease. Those who lived on the streets in continuous contact allowed for an uninterrupted strain of disease much like the homeless in the poorer run shelters of today. Alcohol use increased as well adding to the incompetency of the general public.

Political Corruption

One of the most difficult problems was choosing a new emperor. Unlike Greece where transition may not have been smooth but was at least consistent, the Romans never created an effective system to determine how new emperors would be selected. The choice was always open to debate between the old emperor, the Senate, the Praetorian Guard (the emperor's's private army), and the army. Gradually, the Praetorian Guard gained complete authority to choose the new emperor, who rewarded the guard who then became more influential, perpetuating the cycle. Then in 186 A. D. the army strangled the new emperor, the practice began of selling the throne to the highest bidder. During the next 100 years, Rome had 37 different emperors - 25 of whom were removed from office by assassination. This contributed to the overall weaknesses of the empire.

Unemployment

During the latter years of the empire farming was done on large estates called latifundia that were owned by wealthy men who used slave labor. A farmer who had to pay workmen could not produce goods as cheaply. Many farmers could not compete with these low prices and lost or sold their farms. This not only undermined the citizen farmer who passed his values to his family, but also filled the cities with unemployed people. At one time, the emperor was importing grain to feed more than 100,000 people in Rome alone. These people were not only a burden but also had little to do but cause trouble and contribute to an ever increasing crime rate.

Inflation

The roman economy suffered from inflation (an increase in prices) beginning after the reign of Marcus Aurelius. Once the Romans stopped conquering new lands, the flow of gold into the Roman economy decreased. Yet much gold was being spent by the romans to pay for luxury items. This meant that there was less gold to use in coins. As the amount of gold used in coins decreased, the coins became less valuable. To make up for this loss in value, merchants raised the prices on the goods they sold. Many people stopped using coins and began to barter to get what they needed. Eventually, salaries had to be paid in food and clothing, and taxes were collected in fruits and vegetables.

Urban decay

Wealthy Romans lived in a domus, or house, with marble walls, floors with intricate colored tiles, and windows made of small panes of glass. Most Romans, however, were not rich, They lived in small smelly rooms in apartment houses with six or more stories called islands. Each island covered an entire block. At one time there were 44,000 apartment houses within the city walls of Rome. First-floor apartments were not occupied by the poor since these living quarters rented for about $00 a year. The more shaky wooden stairs a family had to climb, the cheaper the rent became. The upper apartments that the poor rented for $40 a year were hot, dirty, crowed, and dangerous. Anyone who could not pay the rent was forced to move out and live on the crime-infested streets. Because of this cities began to decay.

Inferior Technology

During the last 400 years of the empire, the scientific achievements of the Romans were limited almost entirely to engineering and the organization of public services. They built marvelous roads, bridges, and aqueducts. They established the first system of medicine for the benefit of the poor. But since the Romans relied so much on human and animal labor, they failed to invent many new machines or find new technology to produce goods more efficiently. They could not provide enough goods for their growing population. They were no longer conquering other civilizations and adapting their technology, they were actually losing territory they could not longer maintain with their legions.

Military Spending

Maintaining an army to defend the border of the Empire from barbarian attacks was a constant drain on the government. Military spending left few resources for other vital activities, such as providing public housing and maintaining quality roads and aqueducts. Frustrated Romans lost their desire to defend the Empire. The empire had to begin hiring soldiers recruited from the unemployed city mobs or worse from foreign counties. Such an army was not only unreliable, but very expensive. The emperors were forced to raise taxes frequently which in turn led again to increased inflation.


THE FINAL BLOWS
For years, the well-disciplined Roman army held the barbarians of Germany back. Then in the third century A. D. the Roman soldiers were pulled back from the Rhine-Danube frontier to fight civil war in Italy. This left the Roman border open to attack. Gradually Germanic hunters and herders from the north began to overtake Roman lands in Greece and Gaul (later France). Then in 476 A. D. the Germanic general Odacer or Odovacar overthrew the last of the Roman Emperors, Augustulus Romulus. From then on the western part of the Empire was ruled by Germanic chieftain. Roads and bridges were left in disrepair and fields left untilled. Pirates and bandits made travel unsafe. Cities could not be maintained without goods from the farms, trade and business began to disappear. And Rome was no more in the West.


???? Fall of the United States ????
Give a present day example:

Decline in Morals and Values





Public Health







Political Corruption







Unemployment









Urban decay





Inferior Technology





Military Spending







Make a prediction about the future of the United States.




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OfflineRonoS
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Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 7 days, 6 hours
Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: mr freedom]
    #798471 - 08/05/02 07:37 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

excellent post...I'll start my homework, although a few of them will be self evident..ie..Moral decay and political corruption...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineUnity333
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Registered: 08/26/01
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Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: Rono]
    #842300 - 08/25/02 03:26 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Really great quote! Thank you...


http://mushrooms.batcave.net/New%20index%5F2.htm


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: mr freedom]
    #842765 - 08/25/02 08:01 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

impressive post....I still say it was Canada's fault for the fall of the roman empire...even if it wasn't created yet


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinemr freedom
enthusiast
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 232
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #844656 - 08/26/02 04:21 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Excuse me; just how long do you people think I give for homework assignments? Contrary to politicaly correct advocates; I don't grade on a sliding scale.
I'll go along with the Canada thing; although they have some great country up there.

The parallels of the Roman empire to the modern United States is horribly obvious even to the most limited intellect. It is, and forever will be, an axiom, that if one is ignorant of history, then one is committed to repeat the mistakes of the past; ad nauseum.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Does this sound like any country you know?... [Re: mr freedom]
    #844669 - 08/26/02 04:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

i would love to do the homework assignment but my head hurts...i'll take a ZERO. What i do see is a parallel in the morals department...if it feels good, do it then rings too familiar


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (08/26/02 04:30 PM)


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