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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7899433 - 01/18/08 09:54 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

We all walk different paths - some of these paths might contain more truth than others. I am happy for you that you have found a path that allows you to grow and learn and love, it doesn't make it the one true path, does it? If so, please do not keep your wisdom from us as we would all be grateful to have greater understanding.




I have already said that what works for me doesn't work for others and vice versa so I don't know where you're trying to get with all that? :confused:

Quote:

Please explain what "becoming the best" means? Sounds like an unconscious or subconscious superiority complex related to rational egoism.




Keeping in mind what I said earlier, I thought it was already self implied that this is all subjective.
For me "becoming my best" means overcoming my fears, trying to shed some light in my confusion and experience more happiness.
I am sorry if this sounds like a superiority complex to you. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Posts: 7,152
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7899458 - 01/18/08 10:00 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

What I was trying to get at is, reality is only a test or chore if we choose it. Since we are all so fond of relativity on this forum, I would think you would agree with me that there is no ultimate truth - unless I am confusing you for Icelander, maybe it is only him that believes this.

As for becoming your best, that was a mistake on my part thinking you were talking about an objective best, since I had just gotten done talking about grasping for something transcendent - from my own experience, it is probably not worth chasing for but if that is something which brings you joy, I see no reason why not. People have goals and dreams, this is just one of them - not necessarily based in fear or guilt.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7899466 - 01/18/08 10:01 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
We all walk different paths - some of these paths might contain more truth than others. I am happy for you that you have found a path that allows you to grow and learn and love, it doesn't make it the one true path, does it? If so, please do not keep your wisdom from us as we would all be grateful to have greater understanding.

Please explain what "becoming the best" means? Sounds like an unconscious or subconscious superiority complex related to rational egoism.



"We all walk different paths" True, but only one path is true, all others are lies.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

So much for relativistic truth.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: fivepointer]
    #7899471 - 01/18/08 10:03 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

God is BDSM :naughty:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7899494 - 01/18/08 10:09 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
This is one of the benefits of being human. I'm not trying to put you down, I just wanted to say this. Life and death both exist right now.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7898999/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD




Why are you afraid I'd be insulted by THAT???

Without life, there'd be no death... and without death, there would be no life.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: fivepointer]
    #7899520 - 01/18/08 10:15 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:

So much for relativistic truth.




So much for using the Christian Bible as proof that Christianity is the one true path. :rolleyes:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: Rose]
    #7899534 - 01/18/08 10:20 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

My problem with all the relativist thinking on this forum, is that if you are a relativist, I don't see how you can also believe that we (or you) are working towards something. Working towards implies something absolute. If it's not absolute, then any kind of progress you make is illusory and if it is illusory then it provides no greater insight or awareness, in theory. MushroomTrip, you say you like to work on yourself individually, but you also don't think this has any objective purpose? You say do it because you feel like it (you actually said joy, but I'm going to say that joy doesn't come as a reward but from good action). I don't think we do anything JUST because we enjoy it, there always seems to be underlying values and beliefs.

I don't know though, because I'd also have a hard time defending this argument. Excuse me for the appeal to authority as I know it's against the rules here, but Alan Watts says we do things simply because that's what we want to be doing - but then you have people who act masochistic or act in a certain way even when they know what they are doing is harmful to themselves and they don't want to be doing that. I guess what I'm wondering is if our values are nothing more than preferences or whether they reflect a deeper truth, not just about who we are but what we are doing here.

I just re-read this post and realized I already had all the answers.


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Edited by EternalCowabunga (01/18/08 10:45 PM)


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7899583 - 01/18/08 10:34 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Perhaps MushroomTrip, you are not as relativistic as I make you out to be and you believe that we should strive to become more conscious and aware? Or is it the fact that you know you can't convince other people what to do so you've decided to simply follow this path for yourself and allow people to discover awareness on their own without a dogma or doctrine restricting them?


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Offlineskiihigh
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
    #7899601 - 01/18/08 10:40 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

are you constantly aware that your sleeping when your sleeping, no its almost like your not here anymore, but you dont even know it. thats what i think of as atheist afterlife, i think being in heaven would be tight because you could just relax but hey, eternal sleep doesnt sound so bad, its like ultimate relaxation, we all have a certain amount of time to live and for those of us that will live to be very old and nimble, a choice over non existing or trying to relax over getting the shit burned out of you over and over. you will probably have done so much shit that you accept death eventually and almost welcome it.


--------------------
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
      -Jimi Hendrix

ALL OF MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL

Most Outrageous Thread Ive Ever Hijacked---http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9613658/an/0/page/0




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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7899650 - 01/18/08 10:55 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

My problem with all the relativist thinking on this forum, is that if you are a relativist, I don't see how you can also believe that we (or you) are working towards something. MushroomTrip, you say you like to work on yourself individually, but you also don't think this has any objective purpose? You say do it because you feel like it (you actually said joy, but I'm going to say that joy doesn't come as a reward but from good action). I don't think we do anything JUST because we enjoy it, there always seems to be underlying values and beliefs.




My own observations (regarding myself and others) have led me to the conclusion that all we do is because it appeals to us, creates us pleasure, joy, comfort or any other feeling related to satisfaction (this includes safety).
That I also believe that there are notably more efficient ways in which we can cause this to ourselves, is true. How do I think that? Well also by observing life. For instance, what made me happy a few years ago, now doesn't because as I grew I got more of a particular picture, I have more data than I did before and I can see aspects that were oblivious to me in the past. So it's only natural that what satisfied me once does not anymore.
For example, a few years ago I would find comfort and joy in feeling sorry for myself. If something went wrong (and it did - mostly because of this particular attitude) I would generally try to blame all the others, hate them for what they did to me and see myself as a victim of the circumstances.
Now don't get me wrong, I ENJOYED doing that.
Until this attitude got back at me and made me be all bitter and full of shit.
So I had to choose between keeping being delusional (like I did many times before) or try to understand what was happening to me. Instead of blaming those who did not correspond to what I was standing for, I realized I could easily just lose any contact with them and move along with my life. At this point another factor occurred: being afraid of loneliness, being afraid of getting judged or misinterpreted, and the like. So I had to look deeper, and by that I got more understanding regarding my situation.
In my opinion, understanding a matter leads to better results which can be measured in how honest you become to yourself and others. On how many times you decide to say let it be instead of getting upset. Personally I can only say "let it be" when I understand what it is. :tongue:
Others are free to do whatever they want and whatever makes them feel good.

Quote:

I don't know though, because I'd also have a hard time defending this argument. Excuse me for the appeal to authority as I know it's against the rules here, but Alan Watts says we do things simply because that's what we want to be doing - but then you have people who act masochistic or act in a certain way even when they know what they are doing is harmful to themselves and they don't want to be doing that.




Now I have some questions regarding your sense of relativity.
Just how absolute "harmful" is and how do you measure it? :confused:
You say "harmful" as it would be the only effect of a choice. Is that so? If yes, why and explain if no why and explain.
Let's take as example people who enjoy cutting themselves. From a physical point of view, it is a harmful action. What about the psychological point of view? It most definitely causes some kind of feeling of satisfaction. Don't you take that to account as being non-harmful? Don't you also think about all the other more efficient ways in which one could act upon the matter?

Quote:

I guess what I'm wondering is if our values are nothing more than preferences or whether they reflect a deeper truth, not just about who we are but what we are doing here.




The idea of a deeper truth is ALSO a preference, in my view. :tongue:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7899782 - 01/18/08 11:22 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

I suppose it would be hard to quanitfy what a harmful is. Someone's actions may be harmful to one person because of how they interpret it or their emotional sensitivity while another person may have more tools or intelligence and even if the first person's intention was to harm, it might make the second person simply laugh, based on what they know or their own attitude towards themselves and others.

You made a post sometime in the recent past about people's behaviors being motivated by what they need or want - a person who steals bread from a store might be harming the business of that store, but he is helping himself. No right or wrong, just two people with different goals and paths intersecting. This view makes sense to me.

A lot of time on this forum I have a habit of concerning myself with other people's beliefs, as if what they believe is somehow a threat to my own beliefs. Maybe this comes from a lack of faith in other people to make the right decisions or act well because of my own lack of faith in myself to live practically and the belief that one way of life could somehow be objectively better than another. Is there a divine (edit: :lol: freudian slip, meant to say DIVIDE) in this forum between people who are sharing their experiences or trying to create awareness and people who simply want people to believe what they believe? Is that simply a matter of interpretation towards the poster's intent?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7900561 - 01/19/08 05:42 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Is that simply a matter of interpretation towards the poster's intent?




I don't know, I don't think it's all that black and white.
I think that our reasons are multiple and one can wish to share their experiences, keep their beliefs and in the same time... change them.
It might sound like a contradiction in the beginning, but it makes sense because, in my opinion, anyone who decides to keep posting here wants to produce a change in them. Even if they fight against it, most of the times it feels like a ritualistic dance of sorts where the initiator eventually gives in. :lol: Or leave and come back when they're ready.
It's interesting (for me) to look at things like that because it resembles with a side of me which is always leaving just to get back later on. :strokebeard:

Since you started posting here you already changed a few sets of beliefs and maybe now you're trying to define yourself. Don't let this stop you from changing a lot more. Change is good. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: Icelander]
    #7900579 - 01/19/08 05:56 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Someone would have to make a choice here?:confused:




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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7900714 - 01/19/08 08:07 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

My new goal is to become schizophrenic

I think you're almost there.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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