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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7898427 - 01/18/08 05:43 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Again the point is to pass on some juicy DNA.
It's possibly just a property of the emergent complexity of the evolution of the human brain that makes us think there has to be another meaning to existence. But just being and feeling and loving and suffering and striving and trying and playing and being here now. Isn't that enough for you? Does it have to continue on forever? Isn't that just death anxiety?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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tthom580
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: Icelander]
#7898453 - 01/18/08 05:50 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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It's not a fear of death, it's more of a fear that my being,and feeling and striving and all that good stuff is for no reason. I think it's easy to say that's enough when you're healthy and death isn't on the horizon, but when someone's on their deathbed I don't think they're thinking for the most part, hey, I loved and strived and everything, I don't care what happens now, see ya.
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7898486 - 01/18/08 06:00 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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But if your consciousness ceases to exist, "you" will stop caring
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7898491 - 01/18/08 06:02 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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easy to say that's enough when you're healthy and death isn't on the horizon, but when someone's on their deathbed I don't think they're thinking for the most part, hey, I loved and strived and everything, I don't care what happens now, see ya.
You just made my point about death anxiety. And you can only speak for yourself about what's going on on someone else's deathbed. Not everyone is like you and has your background and particular fears and such.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7898492 - 01/18/08 06:02 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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The meaning of life is to live. If you want your effort to have some 'value' beyond yourself, then work to make the world a better place for the next generation.
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Icelander
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7898501 - 01/18/08 06:03 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Of course one can never be sure of the outcome of their actions. 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fivepointer
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7898504 - 01/18/08 06:04 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
tthom580 said: If you had a choice between christian hell(eternal suffering, fire, brimstone, etc) or the atheists afterlife(complete nonexistence after death, no consciousness, death then nothing) which would you choose?
I don't see this as a tough choice at all. Ceasing to exist is much more preferable to eternal suffering.
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MushroomTrip
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Then why do you still love god?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
Quote:
tthom580 said: If you had a choice between christian hell(eternal suffering, fire, brimstone, etc) or the atheists afterlife(complete nonexistence after death, no consciousness, death then nothing) which would you choose?
I don't see this as a tough choice at all. Ceasing to exist is much more preferable to eternal suffering.
Of course
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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tthom580
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I think when you simplify it down to, "I'm not going to care when I don't exist" it really isn't very scary, when you really try think of non-existance it's not that easy to swallow. I guess this is probably just a difference in opinion, or a difference in our way of thinking of about it, but just the fact that there's no way of us to comprehend it, seeing as our absolute base is existence, it's the only thing that we know, it just kicks in that fear of the unknown.
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Icelander
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7898589 - 01/18/08 06:23 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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And tell me if you can. What is fear of the unknown? Were does it come from and what would be it's roots?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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tthom580
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: Icelander]
#7898600 - 01/18/08 06:26 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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I'm sorry I don't understand. Tell me if I can what? What are you referring to?
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tthom580
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7898626 - 01/18/08 06:31 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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As for the fear of the unknown, I guess it's because if you know something you can categorize it as being either good or bad, but if you don't know it, then it could be either and you just have to take it either way.
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tthom580
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7898680 - 01/18/08 06:47 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Haha gotcha. tell you what the fear of the unknown is. Whew. Didn't realize those were connected thoughts there. But also, for the fear of unknown deal, it's also the fact that in our minds it could prospectively be worse than anything we've experienced previously.
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NiamhNyx
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7898815 - 01/18/08 07:26 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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It could also be better, or simply not fit on any scale of evaluation we currently have. Yeah, the unknown is scary -- It's the mystery at the heart of all 'spiritual' inquiry. Our fascination with the unknown is the very thing organized religion exploits. Any attempt to bracket it in doctrine misrepresents it. What is that quote? Icey? 'The Tao that can be spoken of is not the Tao.' Is that it? It's a good one.
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EternalCowabunga
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7898974 - 01/18/08 08:08 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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I like to think that my reality tunnel is actually creating reality the way I believe, so that I can really believe I am going to a certain place or in a certain direction when I die, and since it's all unknown anyways, it won't really matter if I'm wrong.
That's why I've converted to Christianity just recently, because I know that heaven exists in my mind, and through following the Bible I can metaprogram myself to become the archetype of Jesus. Just recently I've started reading the Bible and my path in life has changed to the point where I don't have to meditate to quiet my mind and waking up in the morning is no effort at all.
From my experience with schizophrenic and mystical states, I'd have to say that reality is stranger than we can imagine and that things are much more open to us and our imagination and levels of attachment than most would accept. My new goal is to become schizophrenic and enter heaven through a letting go of this world.
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Rose
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: tthom580]
#7899252 - 01/18/08 09:14 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
fivepointer said:
Quote:
tthom580 said: If you had a choice between christian hell(eternal suffering, fire, brimstone, etc) or the atheists afterlife(complete nonexistence after death, no consciousness, death then nothing) which would you choose?
I don't see this as a tough choice at all. Ceasing to exist is much more preferable to eternal suffering.
Of course
It is the great compromise.
There is no heaven. There is no hell.
Now live life like the animal you are. 
Live your life to the best of your abilities, 'cause... for all we know... life is the only way we will ever achieve bliss.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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EternalCowabunga
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Re: Tough Choice [Re: Rose]
#7899279 - 01/18/08 09:20 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Live your life to the best of your abilities
Life is not a test or a chore, we can do whatever we want with it, including grasping for something transcendental even if it may not exist. This is one of the benefits of being human. I'm not trying to put you down, I just wanted to say this. Life and death both exist right now.
I just read this post by a user named "yageman" in the psychedelic experience forum, I think it gets across better what I'm trying to say:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7898999/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Quote:
Life is not a test or a chore
You don't know this for sure 
Quote:
This is one of the benefits of being human.
As opposed to what?
Yes, I agree with you that nobody's forcing us to do our best and that we have the freedom to choose whatever. Some find greater joy in just living. Others find joy in becoming their best. I (momentarily) find myself in this category. I observed that the more I am trying to rid what's keeping me from my highest potential, the more I get out of this reality, the happier I feel and the more I understand myself and others.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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EternalCowabunga
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We all walk different paths - some of these paths might contain more truth than others. I am happy for you that you have found a path that allows you to grow and learn and love, it doesn't make it the one true path, does it? If so, please do not keep your wisdom from us as we would all be grateful to have greater understanding.
Please explain what "becoming the best" means? Sounds like an unconscious or subconscious superiority complex related to rational egoism.
By the way, I aim for the best too. It means different things to different people, due to the fact that we all walk different paths. Part of aiming towards the best for me is to not see life as a chore but a blessing and an opportunity.
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Edited by EternalCowabunga (01/18/08 09:51 PM)
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