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OfflineDroz
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #785990 - 07/30/02 09:03 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

existence is everything.


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Evolution of Time.

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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
maybe a bit off topic, but... [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #786018 - 07/30/02 09:20 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Anyone here see the last eppisode to the Neon Genesis Evangelion series? A lot of what happens in that particular show deals with the topic at hand. I'd say it's worth checking out if you haven't seen it already. (the whole damn series is worth checking out actually)


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: MAIA]
    #786129 - 07/30/02 10:07 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

so let's say, for the sake of the post, that everything always existed in some form. but it changes over time, if there is indeed such thing as time.
everything is everything, and everything is nothing. everything has always been there. but the big bang brought about this era of existence that we presently live in, move in, breath in, and debate about. and try to figure out.

is there a soul? is a soul just awareness? or is it the part of us that continues on through each era and term of existence? is it non existent or is it the part of us that can touch everything? the part of us that is everything and eveyone and nothing?


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Peace and Love to all!

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #787210 - 07/30/02 08:18 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

What is a soul?
(to YOU, I have a dictionary)

This is my view:
It really doesn't matter if I believe in a soul or a God while I'm alive. It doesn't affect my life one way or another. Sure, maybe it would affect my social life, but I could go to church just like everyone else- I'd do everything a true believer does only I wouldn't believe... I'd be faking it, but this is just to prove a point. Nothing would be different. That being said, if I were to believe in a God, I'd prefer not to worship one that would punish others for not believing in "him"... they'd just be ignorant and missing out, right? No loss to me.

So, if my beliefs about God and souls don't affect my LIFE (only presumably my "afterlife"), why does it really matter what I believe in?

I really just don't give a fuck... I even feel that not believing in such things right now in my life would be worth missing out on a reward of an afterlife in some perfect cloudland. Is this so hard to comprehend?

Nevermind... preach on.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Registered: 07/18/02
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: Sclorch]
    #787287 - 07/30/02 09:16 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

preach on? hell no braa . i said i wasn't gonna preach, i'm just asking the questions i've always wanted to ask a freethinker. i've never gotten the chance, there has always been hostility on one side or the other or both.
so no soul because you don't really care right now? that's chill. so...
what is your moral code? what would you consider you moral worsts...things you will absolutly not do? what is wrong and right to each of you personally?


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Peace and Love to all!

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Offlineerectronik
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Registered: 03/13/02
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #787304 - 07/30/02 09:35 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Why do we exist?
Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.
I don't mean to sound silly, but that question implies that there is an answer, and that I care . I'm here. Fuck why. I'm living "why" with each breath.

Personally, I think some closer approximations of what I've found myself and others asking go a little something like this: Do I exist? and How?

I also like the question "what is existence?" I think existence is the ability to ask questions. Existence is pondering. Existence is mind.

That shouldn't hurt you men and women of God too much, should it?
I mean to say, I think God would like that answer, since it doesn't give humans all the credit. Sure, we all have minds, but we're not responsible







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"Hallucinogens can be like talking to a really talented salesman: beware of what you can sell yourself." - J.L.C.

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: erectronik]
    #787318 - 07/30/02 09:44 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

it's all good man. i just wanna understand how you freethinkers think man. i'm tired of assuming. before i ever debate with one of you again, i want to understand. is that so bad? i'm not asking these questions with an answer in mind. peace braa.


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Peace and Love to all!

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #787429 - 07/31/02 12:18 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

another question: what is your best proof for God's non-existence?


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Peace and Love to all!

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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: Sclorch]
    #787562 - 07/31/02 03:34 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Sclorch: Come on dude, don't leave me hanging. I'd really like to iron out this line of reasoning. So what do you think of my last post?


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #787569 - 07/31/02 03:41 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

There's no proof he exists, but i believe there's always a possibility. People who try to explain their existence base themself in beliefs, beliefs and truth are very diferent.
First you got to ask yourself what is a god. I've been trying to push theists on this one, but they seem to be unable or unwilling to give a universal definition of what it means to be a god.
I think a strong case could be done that a god by necessity is a supernatural being. Say a certain being is not supernatural. In that case the being must be natural, mustn't it? Does it make any sense to call a natural being a god? Aren't all natural beings by logical necessity products of nature?
If a being is a product of nature, I cannot by any means call that being a god, and I must remain an atheist.
So we have now defined gods as supernatural beings. This gives us the following argument:

1. Gods are supernatural beings (as defined above)
2. If nothing supernatural exists then there can be no gods (follows from 1)
3. Everything is natural (premise)
4. Therefore there exists nothing supernatural (follows from 3)
5. Therefore there are no gods (follows from 4 and 2 combined)

Proving that everything is natural takes a pretty long argument and this is were i differ from atheists, i consider the possibilty of the existence of a higher being because we cannot proove everything is "natural", science says there is no god because it is based on evidences that reflect the natural world, but scientific explanations have a similarity with religious explantions, they are both human psychological processes of thinking, they have a margin of error and failure, thus their acuracy is questionable and SHOULD be questionable. On the other hand, scientific explanations are more tangible in terms of proof than religious explanations but both should not be considered as absolute, thus not considered as thruths but as beliefs.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: MAIA]
    #787582 - 07/31/02 04:07 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Deleted by admin

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Anonymous

Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #787629 - 07/31/02 04:48 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

another question: what is your best proof for God's non-existence?

You can't prove non-existence. I could ask you for proof that Leprechans don't exist, the logic is the same.

Edited by Evolving (07/31/02 06:45 AM)

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: Sclorch]
    #787756 - 07/31/02 06:16 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

It really doesn't matter if I believe in a soul or a God while I'm alive. It doesn't affect my life one way or another. Sure, maybe it would affect my social life, but I could go to church just like everyone else- I'd do everything a true believer does only I wouldn't believe... I'd be faking it, but this is just to prove a point. Nothing would be different.

You mean *gasp* that a difference that makes no difference is no difference?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: buttonion]
    #787791 - 07/31/02 06:51 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Come on dude, don't leave me hanging. I'd really like to iron out this line of reasoning. So what do you think of my last post?

You mean, this one?
So you are saying that things ?are? by themselves? What thing exists by itself?

This is all pretty vague, but I think I know what you're trying to say.
Existence is dependent only upon existence.
Things exist together, so nothing exists by itself (obviously; at least as far as THIS dimension is concerned. NOTE: no evidence of others).

And this:
I don?t consider a proposition, or a statement about the relationship between things (e.g., everything is relative), to fall into the category of ?static objects? that I am talking about.

So, everything doesn't refer to everything now... okay, whatever. So now you're just restating Einstein or something?


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: World Spirit]
    #787881 - 07/31/02 07:43 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I also have some defenitions,

"God"
(Anglo-Saxon God; German Gott; akin to Persian khoda; Hindu khooda).

God can variously be defined as:

the proper name of the one Supreme and Infinite Personal Being, the Creator and Ruler of the universe, to whom man owes obedience and worship;
the common or generic name of the several supposed beings to whom, in polytheistic religions, Divine attributes are ascribed and Divine worship rendered;
the name sometimes applied to an idol as the image or dwelling-place of a god.
The root-meaning of the name (from Gothic root gheu; Sanskrit hub or emu, "to invoke or to sacrifice to") is either "the one invoked" or "the one sacrificed to." From different Indo-Germanic roots (div, "to shine" or "give light"; thes in thessasthai "to implore") come the Indo-Iranian deva, Sanskrit dyaus (gen. divas), Latin deus, Greek theos, Irish and Gaelic dia, all of which are generic names; also Greek Zeus (gen. Dios, Latin Jupiter (jovpater), Old Teutonic Tiu or Tiw (surviving in Tuesday), Latin Janus, Diana, and other proper names of pagan deities. The common name most widely used in Semitic occurs as 'el in Hebrew, 'ilu in Babylonian, 'ilah in Arabic, etc.; and though scholars are not agreed on the point, the root-meaning most probably is "the strong or mighty one."

P.J. TONER
The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VI

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I meant an universal definition, you're giving me credit by accepting the plurality of the word and describing him in many ways. Different religions have very different ideas of what 'God' is like; they even disagree about basic issues such as how many gods there are, whether they're male or female. Those definitions are anedoctal evidences per se, how can they be universal ? A clear definition of 'God' and strong, compelling evidence is required, because the existence of God is an extraordinary claim and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not dictionary definitions.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

Edited by MAIA (07/31/02 07:47 AM)

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OfflineBullfrog1
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Registered: 07/03/02
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #789670 - 08/01/02 02:34 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Rast,
I don't fully understand your question. To ask "what is existence?" is extremely vague. To you it means one thing, to me, another, and so on.
As far as an atheist label, I don't feel that word is very specific either.
If you mean that I don't believe in any canned religion, no I don't. Is that an agnostic, yes. Does an agnostic affirm a creator, yes. Even an atheist confirms a force.
George Lucas, who, by the way, is not my idol, was very much into mysticism. I tend to lean towards this "force" idea of what you refer to as god. It is also known as the "way", through Taoist philosophy. Eventually the buddhist corrupted Taoist philosophy with religious overtones.
As far as an "obedience" and "worship", no, not me. Respect for life, yes. Admit the unknown as creator and sustainer of life, by all means. That's ALL the we can do. I'll not debate "God". There's no debate. We all experience "IT", differently.

Bullfrog1


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: questions for the atheist. [Re: Bullfrog1]
    #789848 - 08/01/02 05:01 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

"If you mean that I don't believe in any canned religion, no I don't. Is that an agnostic, yes. Does an agnostic affirm a creator, yes. Even an atheist confirms a force."

The main difference between an agnostic and an atheist is that the agnostic is opened to the possibility of the existence of god, the atheist refuses gods existence, this doens't close the door to be a spiritual person, many atheists are spiritual persons but i believe agnostics are more. Of course such definitions are very subjective as the nature of atheists and agnostics favor a non strict self knowlodge, thereof they might be defined in many ways.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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