|
skiihigh
underground



Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 372
Loc: USA
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Buudhism and marijuana
#7892393 - 01/17/08 10:30 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
"BUDDHISTS (Tibet, India, and China)From the 5th Century B.C.E. on ritually used Marijuana; initiation rites and mystical experiences were (are) common in many Chinese Buddhist Sects. Some Tibetan Buddhists and lamas (priests) consider Marijuana their most holy plant. Many Buddhist traditions, writings, and beliefs indicate that "Siddhartha" (the Buddha) himself, used and ate nothing but hemp and its seeds for six years prior to announcing (discovering) his truths and becoming the Buddha (Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path)."
http://www.thc-ministry.net/marijuana-religion.html
-------------------- When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix ALL OF MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL Most Outrageous Thread Ive Ever Hijacked---http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9613658/an/0/page/0
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: skiihigh]
#7892557 - 01/17/08 11:18 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
skiihigh said: "BUDDHISTS (Tibet, India, and China)From the 5th Century B.C.E. on ritually used Marijuana; initiation rites and mystical experiences were (are) common in many Chinese Buddhist Sects. Some Tibetan Buddhists and lamas (priests) consider Marijuana their most holy plant. Many Buddhist traditions, writings, and beliefs indicate that "Siddhartha" (the Buddha) himself, used and ate nothing but hemp and its seeds for six years prior to announcing (discovering) his truths and becoming the Buddha (Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path)."
http://www.thc-ministry.net/marijuana-religion.html
So what?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7892582 - 01/17/08 11:24 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
So it'd explain why some of the things I think about when high are written in the Dharma.
--------------------
|
Love Cap
Wanderer



Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7892628 - 01/17/08 11:38 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
skiihigh said: "BUDDHISTS (Tibet, India, and China)From the 5th Century B.C.E. on ritually used Marijuana; initiation rites and mystical experiences were (are) common in many Chinese Buddhist Sects. Some Tibetan Buddhists and lamas (priests) consider Marijuana their most holy plant. Many Buddhist traditions, writings, and beliefs indicate that "Siddhartha" (the Buddha) himself, used and ate nothing but hemp and its seeds for six years prior to announcing (discovering) his truths and becoming the Buddha (Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path)."
http://www.thc-ministry.net/marijuana-religion.html
So what?
So what? geez man, what kind of contribution to the conversation was THAT?
I find this very interesting, before this I thought that Buddhists were entirely sober! This puts a lot of things together for me too! thanks for the site man 
This makes me reinforce my old idea with my relationship with pot... see i'm an every day smoker.. except for recently, only because I got oral surgery and I can't smoke! But it's like when you first smoked pot and it was almost like tripping... well I want to keep it like that again! Then it can be more of a traditional thing.. like smoking just every once in a while, take a good bong rip of some beautiful nugs.. and enjoy
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Quote:
Visionary Tools said: So it'd explain why some of the things I think about when high are written in the Dharma.
It might.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Love Cap]
#7892725 - 01/17/08 12:06 PM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Love Cap said: before this I thought that Buddhists were entirely sober!
It's really not that black and white. Theravada (The Speech of the Elders) and Mahayana (The Greater Vehicle) Buddhists both take a precept that says they will no longer use conciousness altering things. Vajrayana (The Vehicle of the Thunderbolt) is the 3rd turning of the wheel and newest interpretation. Tibetan Buddhism and Tantric practices are under this umbrella and will use "a thorn to remove a thorn" or a poison to counteract a poison. You might find them using marijuana more readily than a Theravada or Mahayana Buddhist. That's not to say that they wouldn't use either, especially Mahayana, because to all Buddhist, the dharma is a raft to be left behind after crossing the river. The teaching is not to grasp, even to the teaching. There is no dogma, and you'll find people following it in the way that is helpful to them at that point in time.
--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
|
Love Cap
Wanderer



Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
|
|
It makes sense, I've just never looked too much into it..
|
skiihigh
underground



Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 372
Loc: USA
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Love Cap]
#7893284 - 01/17/08 02:34 PM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
just found it interesting and thought id share it, see what people had to say
-------------------- When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix ALL OF MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL Most Outrageous Thread Ive Ever Hijacked---http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9613658/an/0/page/0
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
|
Most Buddhist teachers STRONGLY advise against all mind altering drug use. Drugs cloud and distort the pure cognition that most of us are all capable of experiencing naturally. We do not need mind altering drugs. Though psychedelics can be valuable tools for self exploration, and even lessons of dhamma, they still distort our perception of reality. The goal of Buddhism is to see things as they are, and to be content and peaceful with this understanding of reality. The core teaching is that all things are impermanent, therefore there is nothing worth clinging to. To cling is to live in bondage. To cling to drug use is not skillful.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
they still distort our perception of reality.
Speak for yourself. Or... How can anything distort reality within a dream. You could say the same thing about eating spaghetti then as it also changes brain chemistry.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7893586 - 01/17/08 03:51 PM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
I do not think drugs provide "right view," as they would call it in Buddhism. Also, the precepts clearly suggest that people not use intoxicants. I am speaking in terms of Buddhism, and the topic of this question on the relationship between Buddhism and marijuana use.
It is also obvious to me that psychedelics produce deeply mind altering experiences where as the chemistry of simple foods does not stimulate the same sort of brain activity. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone in here that would compare 500mcg of lsd to a plate of spaghetti. Your argument is kind of weak there. Personal experience says that psychedelic states are different from the brain activity caused by common food. So IMHO psychedelics, such as marijuana, do change our perception of reality, because IME I have found I feel significantly different when I am completely sober, compared to when Im high on pot and/or other psychedelics.
You can look at life as a dream if you want. In someways I feel that way too, but thats not really the topic of this thread. If you want you can start a "life as a dream" thread for everyone to think about.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
My point is, that whatever you are experiencing is "reality". It's like saying some things are natural and some are unnatural. That's just not possible IMO.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
|
|
You can't simply speak from or for Buddhism, because as I shallowly went into earlier, there are many schools and interpretations under the umbrella of Buddhism. You have to be more specific. It's like saying "I speak for all the people of the earth when I say that I dislike mashed potatoes." I happen to enjoy them (especially with brown gravy).
Also, you are correct to say that clinging to drug use is bad. But it is possible to use drugs without clinging, as I said earlier. Tantric practices are ALL about using a thorn to remove a thorn. But, that is why they are considered dangerous and esoteric. Not everyone is capable of using a drug without getting attached to it. But it is possible, and not all Buddhists condemn it or condone it.
--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
|
jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7893632 - 01/17/08 04:00 PM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: It's like saying some things are natural and some are unnatural. That's just not possible IMO.
Agreed. Once my brother pointed this out to me, I relaxed a lot. Pushing the thresholds of consciousness is natural. Experiencing transcendant realities is natural. Maybe not the norm, but natural.
--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
|
"Most Buddhist teachers," is exactly what I said. That was my attempt to make it clear that I was not speaking for all Buddhist traditions. Most of the traditional (Mahayana, and Theravada) teachings suggest people not use intoxicants, it is the 5th precept.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with drug use. I am speaking from what I have read in the several books I have read on Buddhism and heard from the many Dhamma talks I've listened to. So in the context of the precepts, marijuana use is not skillful.
Personally, I smoke pot and use psychedelics pretty often, and i have no problem with others using them, but I do not think that they are the path to total liberation.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
|
jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
|
|
Quote:
badreligion2good said: but I do not think that they are the path to total liberation.
Me neither. I've gained a lot from LSD, but I've gained even more from meditation. LSD showed me things, and disintegrated bad things. Meditation is much more subtle. I witness my mind working in more clear and healthy ways, and it surprises me.
--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
Edited by jonathanseagull (01/17/08 04:59 PM)
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
path to total liberation.
Don't really believe there is one no matter what the religious folk claim. Maybe death is for us humans but who knows.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Love Cap
Wanderer



Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7895584 - 01/17/08 11:39 PM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
LSD is a different thing. I think that mother earth gave us things like mushrooms, DMT, San Pedro, etc. for a reason.
|
Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Love Cap]
#7895736 - 01/18/08 12:32 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
|
|
Mushrooms are God's gift to man.
LSD is man's gift to man.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
|
Quote:
jonathanseagull said: Also, you are correct to say that clinging to drug use is bad. But it is possible to use drugs without clinging, as I said earlier.
What makes such clinging bad? Sounds like a value judgment on clinging to me.
And if one does not cling to anything, then what would be the intention behind taking any sort of mind altering substance? Why would you take a drug?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
|
Quote:
Personally, I smoke pot and use psychedelics pretty often, and i have no problem with others using them, but I do not think that they are the path to total liberation.
From your posts, you sound pretty knowledgeable about Buddhist practice. Why then do you smoke pot and trip if you don't think they are the path to total liberation?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Love Cap]
#7896615 - 01/18/08 09:13 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Love Cap said: LSD is a different thing. I think that mother earth gave us things like mushrooms, DMT, San Pedro, etc. for a reason.
I think the Flying Spaghetti Monster is Lord.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Rose]
#7896618 - 01/18/08 09:14 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Cervantes said: Mushrooms are God's gift to man.
LSD is man's gift to man.
Silly boy, Tricks are for kids.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: dblaney]
#7896628 - 01/18/08 09:16 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dblaney said:
Quote:
Personally, I smoke pot and use psychedelics pretty often, and i have no problem with others using them, but I do not think that they are the path to total liberation.
From your posts, you sound pretty knowledgeable about Buddhist practice. Why then do you smoke pot and trip if you don't think they are the path to total liberation?
Because thinking something isn't being something. No one I have ever met has demonstrated total liberation in living and yet so many of them claimed to know it's reality.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7896639 - 01/18/08 09:20 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Many talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Usually the people walking the walk don't do too much of the talking - their actions alone usually spark curiosity and interest in others. Then they will talk when others approach them and ask "how do you do it?"
I can see smoking occasionally not being a problem, but I don't think the Buddhist doctrine can be lived parallel to a stoner lifestyle. I think that much is obvious.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Usually the people walking the walk don't do too much of the talking - their actions alone usually spark curiosity and interest in others. Then they will talk when others approach them and ask "how do you do it?"
Most likely an Urban Legend.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7896691 - 01/18/08 09:33 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Not really, I've talked a few times about a friend I have who is asked this all the time. People know that there is something different about him. He is a Buddhist btw.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
I have a friend who can fly and is invisible. No really. He's a Spaghetti Monster btw
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/18/08 09:40 AM)
|
EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7896726 - 01/18/08 09:45 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
I fly too, it's not that uncommon
--------------------
|
Quoiyaien
><<<<0>>>><



Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 1,409
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
|
Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: Many talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
Yes, realization is the easy part. It is the actualization that is the challenge. My teacher always says that Zen is "sudden realization, followed by gradual practice".
Knowledge alone will not suffice. In the words of Dogen Zenji, "Painted cakes do not satisfy hunger".
I find pot and LSD excellent for catalyzing a great realization. But again knowledge without application is just a little more than useless.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: I fly too, it's not that uncommon
Your fly is open.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7896752 - 01/18/08 09:55 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Omg .. waht ru lookin at my dick for homo
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
It's so small that I can't look away. More evidence of your "new" evolutionary processes.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/18/08 09:57 AM)
|
EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7896789 - 01/18/08 10:06 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Well at least your relies are starting to make sense. Is that a sign of your impending spiritual/emotional evolution?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/18/08 10:14 AM)
|
EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7896830 - 01/18/08 10:18 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
What the thinker thinks, the prover proves.
--------------------
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: dblaney]
#7896968 - 01/18/08 10:53 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
I use mind altering drugs for sensual pleasure, because I have aversive attitudes towards a lot of things in life, and drugs provide an escape or distraction from them.
In Buddhism there are six sense gates from which one may feel sensual pleasure: Sight, smell, taste, touch, hearing, and thinking. Psychedelics really stimulate sight, smell, touch, hearing, and thinking for me. They bring me a lot of sensual pleasure, particularly intellectual pleasure. On the other hand marijuana is how I ignore and avoid my problems. I feel my drug use is just one of the 5 hindrances in action.
As to why I use drugs despite my familiarity with the teachings of the Buddha. I am not Buddhist, I am just somewhat well versed on the religion/philosophy. I am interested in it, I would like to adopt it, but at this point in my life I am having a hard time letting go of some things.
I am not motivated by the idea of total liberation at this point, I am motivated by comfort and sensual pleasure. I am still clinging to physical things, but its so hard for me not to. Hopefully one day I will be motivated by the desire to end my own suffering.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
And what is it that you suffer about?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
|
Sensual desire, ill will, sloth, torpor, restlessness, anxiety, doubt.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
All of these sound ok to me, I guess the only thing that can go wrong about them are the quantities in which you use them and the importance that you give them (which are mental constructs that can be adjusted by making use of Will). Why do you wanna rid them? You no longer want to be a human?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
I am not motivated by the idea of total liberation at this point, I am motivated by comfort and sensual pleasure. I am still clinging to physical things, but its so hard for me not to. Hopefully one day I will be motivated by the desire to end my own suffering.
IMO and experience comfort and sensual pleasure are not a cause of suffering but instead reasons for living. We are physical and involved in a physical experience and so IMO the best thing to to is to explore it, experience it, and learn from it, and hopefully enjoy much of it.
What brings suffering IMO is attachment to our pleasures and refusal to let them come to a natural end.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7897188 - 01/18/08 12:25 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Yes I know its the attachment to comfort and pleasure that is the problem. I know that pleasure and comfort are not intrinsically bad, but it easy to get caught by them, to become attached.
I agree that we live for pleasure and comfort, and sometimes i am inclined to believe thats why we are born to begin with, to seek comfort and pleasure. The thing is, with comfort and pleasure comes discomfort and displeasure, and therefore, suffering. So by being born, we are being born as the heirs to suffering.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
No, through suffering we can learn how not to suffer. To draw a similarity, when we're born we don't know how to walk. And until we do we fall. You can't say that it is because of the walking that we fall. It is because we just didn't learn all the tricks yet. Sure, we might fall even as adults, but we don't do it that often, do we? In fact we usually do it so rarely that we stop creating a purpose out of not falling and simply enjoy the walk.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
|
I do not really see how your post is disagreeing with me, so why start if off with a negative "no," as though I am wrong about something?
I did not say we cannot learn how to reduce suffering.
Also, can you learn how to not feel pain, can you learn how not to die, can you learn how to prevent people who you care about from dying, can you actually learn how to avoid suffering altogether? It seems to me with out suffering, there can be no pleasure. So there is always some suffering in life, which is what I was saying.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
Edited by badreligion2good (01/18/08 12:41 PM)
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
Because I consider it to be huge difference between making a purpose out of ridding suffering and simply learning how to cope with it while actually taking life as it is.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
|
Those are your views on suffering and not the end all be all FACTS on suffering. Do not try to project your reality onto mine. There is no right or wrong regarding the subject, therefore your belief that you have right view regarding suffering is a delusion.
My views on suffering are as valid as yours, no need to tell me I am wrong. I am not saying you are.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
discomfort and displeasure, and therefore, suffering.
Discomfort and displeasure do not cause suffering IMO. It's, once again, our attachment to not experiencing these things. For instance, I can ignore a certain pain and often not even feel it if I am engaged in something interesting. Yet when I focus on that pain and put my energy into resisting it's presence it feels much worse and more real. Yet it seems that it's happening in my mind. (Which is it, a pain that feels painful or a pain that doesn't intrude???????)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7897314 - 01/18/08 12:53 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
This is completely derailed now, time to lock it up and open a new thread on suffering. Nothing to do with Buddhism and Marijuana anymore.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Go for it but know that threads here always derail at a certain point and create a life and direction of their own. I have learned to follow.(non-attachment )
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/18/08 12:55 PM)
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Quote:
badreligion2good said: Those are your views on suffering and not the end all be all FACTS on suffering. Do not try to project your reality onto mine. There is no right or wrong regarding the subject, therefore your belief that you have right view regarding suffering is a delusion.
My views on suffering are as valid as yours, no need to tell me I am wrong. I am not saying you are.
It's called debate.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
Quote:
badreligion2good said: Those are your views on suffering and not the end all be all FACTS on suffering. Do not try to project your reality onto mine. There is no right or wrong regarding the subject, therefore your belief that you have right view regarding suffering is a delusion.
My views on suffering are as valid as yours, no need to tell me I am wrong. I am not saying you are.
What? Telling you that you are wrong doesn't automatically imply that you are. Although, not finding an argument for your statements might make one wonder how clear you have in your mind what you want to explain. Why should you take offense for someone not agreeing with your views? Diversity (of any kind) enriches our lives and sets us free from the slavery of fixed ideas. I might be "wrong" in the same proportion that you are, this doesn't have to stop you or I from explaining our points of view as good as we can.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7897356 - 01/18/08 01:07 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: Go for it but know that threads here always derail at a certain point and create a life and direction of their own. I have learned to follow.(non-attachment )
I believe the all-time P&S record was five posts before derailment, with two being about average.
--------------------
|
badreligion2good
Uncertain


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 888
|
|
You're right, I am just in a bad mood today. A little bit stressed out and touchy. I understand its in the spirit of debate.
-------------------- All I know is that I dont know. Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
You're right, I am just in a bad mood today.attachment A little bit stressed outattachment and touchyattachment.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/18/08 01:35 PM)
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7897447 - 01/18/08 01:36 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Someone here is attached to their cleverness.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
But you can overcome this my friend. I believe in you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Love Cap
Wanderer



Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7897776 - 01/18/08 03:11 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
how does or have anything to do with an intelligent debate? It almost dumbs it down a little don't you think?
|
WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
Loc: Nacada
Last seen: 9 months, 15 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Love Cap]
#7897821 - 01/18/08 03:23 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Criticism of the emoticons will likely only beget more emoticons..
--------------------

|
Love Cap
Wanderer



Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: WScott]
#7897851 - 01/18/08 03:30 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
of course, everyone's gotta be a smart ass! haha
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Love Cap]
#7897862 - 01/18/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Love Cap said: how does or have anything to do with an intelligent debate? It almost dumbs it down a little don't you think?
It often doesn't and there is no rule that everything said here be serious. But unlike some I try and get there from time to time. And I rarely whine when things don't go my way.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/18/08 03:34 PM)
|
WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
Loc: Nacada
Last seen: 9 months, 15 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Love Cap]
#7897870 - 01/18/08 03:35 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
To get this thread back on topic..
Anyone else notice what the first three letters of Buddhism are?
--------------------

|
Love Cap
Wanderer



Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: WScott]
#7897881 - 01/18/08 03:37 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Is that a valid connection?
|
WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
Loc: Nacada
Last seen: 9 months, 15 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Love Cap]
#7897892 - 01/18/08 03:39 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
The real translation of 'Enlightened One' is actually Buddhank.
--------------------

|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: WScott]
#7897980 - 01/18/08 04:00 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
tthom580
Stranger
Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 27
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Icelander]
#7898514 - 01/18/08 06:05 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Came in late on the pain conversation, but I'm not sure I buy the whole attachment is what makes pain bad thing. Sure, if you cut your finger, and then start into a really good book, you might forget about it cause you're not trying to not experience it, but I think that if you've got a broken leg, it's going to hurt like crazy no matter what kind of mindset you have about attachment.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: tthom580]
#7898535 - 01/18/08 06:09 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Yes but you can choose between obsessing over the pain or accepting it while getting along with your life. What was the point you were trying to make here?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
tthom580
Stranger
Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 27
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
|
My point is that some pain is so great that you really don't have a choice between accepting it or getting along with your life because it's all encompassing. If you break your leg, if your whole family is killed in front of you, you can say there's an option there, but in reality, there's just such a forceful pain that it doesn't allow you to just accept it.
|
tthom580
Stranger
Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 27
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: tthom580]
#7898613 - 01/18/08 06:28 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Heh, also I realize those are two very different examples, but I was going for emotional and physical pain.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: tthom580]
#7898620 - 01/18/08 06:30 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Emotional pain is the one that you can rid, even if it results from psychical pain.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
tthom580
Stranger
Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 27
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
|
I guess I don't think that's true. You can get rid of emotional pain for some things, but if somebody spends their whole life in emotional torment after some kind of traumatizing event. It's silly to say they should just accept it and move one, cause presumably if they were able to, they would. I don't think anyone wants to sit around and be miserable their whole life.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: tthom580]
#7898724 - 01/18/08 07:00 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
First of all you forget of the awareness matter. People can stay in suffering because they didn't realize they can take action. It doesn't mean that that there's no other option for them but to keep suffering.
I am pretty sure that if you take a look at your life, you will recall moments in which you felt bad mostly because you let yourself drawn by that particular emotion. And that all you had to do was to pull yourself out of there, focus on what brought you joy into your life and try to deal with your anxieties. I for sure can remember more than one or two situations like these. The more we remain in a singular state, the more we omit the others. Intention plays a big role in all that, it's the first conscious step that we take when it comes to making changes.
Quote:
It's silly to say they should just accept it and move one, cause presumably if they were able to, they would.
How did you reach this conclusion? Some people might be unwilling, others might be unaware of their power to produce a change, but that's something entirely different.
Quote:
I don't think anyone wants to sit around and be miserable their whole life.
Really? Some people even find comfort in feeling miserable. Self indulgence abolishes one of personal responsibility and many people DO run away from that.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
tthom580
Stranger
Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 27
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
|
Ok, hypothetical situation for you to tell me how they should move on and accept it. A girl lives in an african village with her family, one day, rebels come kill her whole family, destroy her village, and take her along so that they can rape her every day. Now how exactly would she go about accepting the fact that anything in her life that's ever made her happy is either dead or burned to the ground, and her current situation is physically and mentally scarring? I realize that people can accept that their girlfriend dumped them or that their dog died, but there are certain kinds of pain that I don't understand how you can say someone could just accept it.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: tthom580]
#7899169 - 01/18/08 08:55 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Now we are talking about a case where someone is being forced. However, even in this situation, choice still exists. Even suicide. There's always a choice. Also, depending on the background, of her past experiences, the number of choices could be even bigger. Maybe she learned how to fight, or to kill. You can't judge a situation only by the data you provided because it's more than insufficient. We are such complex beings and even the smallest detail in our lives can change out perspective upon life and the course of our decisions. Judging a situation like that only by what you provided can vary so much from person to person that it would be silly for me to limit myself to only one scenario. What I do know is that, for those who are willing and aware, life is more detailed and expanded.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Love Cap
Wanderer



Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
|
|
Yeah, I'd like to see the response for THAT.
|
Epigallo
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: Love Cap]
#7899444 - 01/18/08 09:56 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Buudhism and marijuana
fuck yeah!!
|
skiihigh
underground



Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 372
Loc: USA
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: tthom580]
#7899578 - 01/18/08 10:33 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
tthom580 said: Ok, hypothetical situation for you to tell me how they should move on and accept it. A girl lives in an african village with her family, one day, rebels come kill her whole family, destroy her village, and take her along so that they can rape her every day. Now how exactly would she go about accepting the fact that anything in her life that's ever made her happy is either dead or burned to the ground, and her current situation is physically and mentally scarring? I realize that people can accept that their girlfriend dumped them or that their dog died, but there are certain kinds of pain that I don't understand how you can say someone could just accept it.
i dought she could really accept it while that shit was going on but pherhaps there would be hope after the whole situation
-------------------- When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix ALL OF MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL Most Outrageous Thread Ive Ever Hijacked---http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9613658/an/0/page/0
|
BlueCoyote
Beyond



Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: tthom580]
#7899581 - 01/18/08 10:33 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
It's about not to get emotionally overwhelmed by the pain so one does stupid things, but to accept the pain as what it is, get a stance and do something about in a conscious rational way.
|
skiihigh
underground



Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 372
Loc: USA
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: BlueCoyote]
#7899610 - 01/18/08 10:43 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
yeah havnt you guys seen ghandi (the movie)
-------------------- When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix ALL OF MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL Most Outrageous Thread Ive Ever Hijacked---http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9613658/an/0/page/0
|
Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: skiihigh]
#7899717 - 01/18/08 11:09 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Good movie.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Buudhism and marijuana [Re: tthom580]
#7901138 - 01/19/08 11:05 AM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
tthom580 said: Ok, hypothetical situation for you to tell me how they should move on and accept it. A girl lives in an african village with her family, one day, rebels come kill her whole family, destroy her village, and take her along so that they can rape her every day. Now how exactly would she go about accepting the fact that anything in her life that's ever made her happy is either dead or burned to the ground, and her current situation is physically and mentally scarring? I realize that people can accept that their girlfriend dumped them or that their dog died, but there are certain kinds of pain that I don't understand how you can say someone could just accept it.
Acceptance does not necessarily imply resignation. I'm sure you realize this is an extreme example, but even in such a scenario, you can accept the circumstances just as they are, instead of causing even more suffering for yourself by fantasizing or wishing they would be different.
A few decades ago, the Chinese were violently persecuting Tibetan monks and torturing them. However, after these practices ended, the monks were fairly psychologically sound. After such events, it would be no surprise to find out they had PTSD or a whole host of other traumatized reactions. However, they didn't really. When they were asked about it, the monks talked about how they accepted their circumstances and offered as much compassion as they could to their torturers. What remarkable human beings.
If you say acceptance of some situation or circumstance is not possible, then that most likely reflects some belief or attachment of your own, to the idea that life should be as you want it to; that you can't be happy if you're experiencing pain or discomfort; etc.
We all have these sorts of obstructions to unconditional acceptance (love), and practice is about becoming aware and letting go of them.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
|