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InvisibleDiploidM
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Does Power Corrupt?
    #7889336 - 01/16/08 05:44 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Some time ago I read about an interesting experiment in the field of psychology conducted at Stanford.

The researchers placed three people in a room, arbitrarily assigned one of them as 'the boss', and asked them to perform some tedious work. None knew the nature of the experiment.

After some time working, the group of three were given a plate of five cookies. They were told this was a snack, but the cookies were part of the experiment.

In almost every case, the boss took an extra cookie and was measurably messier than the two workers.

The movie The Experiment is based on those experiments, only in the movie, the experiment is allowed to run its course to a chilling, and plausible, conclusion.

Even otherwise nice people tend to become domineering and oafish when given power over others. The magnitude of this effect seems to be inversely proportional to the age/maturity of the person in power.

What does that say about us? Will knowledge of this fact of human nature influence your behavior when you're placed in a position of authority over others?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7889411 - 01/16/08 05:59 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

From my own experience I realized that the need to control in the result of anxiety. So I guess that as long that we will have fears, this impulse will come back to us; it is a very strong and versatile instinct and the more I analyze it, the more I realize how much of it remains in the unconscious realm. We do it without even know what the hell we're doing and why.

I think that a good exercise is to try to remember how much we personally hate to be controlled.
I do believe that progress can be done only that it requires much focus and intention. And that being able once to rid this impulse once does not mean that it will automatically be excluded from all the rest of the situations.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7889429 - 01/16/08 06:03 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

researchers placed three people in a room, arbitrarily assigned one of them as 'the boss',

What does that say about us?

Since that position of authority was arbitrarily assigned I don't think it says a lot.

Will knowledge of this fact of human nature influence your behavior when you're placed in a position of authority over others?

No, but it will influence my behavior when I'm placed in a position to (edit)arbitrarily(edit) put people in a position of authority.


Edited by falcon (01/16/08 06:11 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7889498 - 01/16/08 06:18 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Since that position of authority was arbitrarily assigned I don't think it says a lot.

How else could the experiment be conducted other than to randomly pick one of the three to be "the boss"?

How would you do this experiment?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7889544 - 01/16/08 06:28 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

How else could the experiment be conducted other than to randomly pick one of the three to be "the boss"?

:shrug: I don't know.

Maybe assign a task to a lot of group of three and then let them sort out who does what. Observe their behavior. Then assign bosses once you know something about the groups you set up.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7889566 - 01/16/08 06:32 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Or better yet have a fourth person for each group of three who observes and have him pick the boss for a second task after observing the three preform the first task.

What kind of subtrefuge would the experimenters would need to use to keep the experimentees in the dark about the nature of the experiment would probably be the most interesting thing about this.

One of TV networks could make a reality show about this.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7889580 - 01/16/08 06:34 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I think that the purpose of the experiment was to analyze the behavior of someone who was given this function.
Your idea of experiment would have results that belong to a different category.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7889582 - 01/16/08 06:34 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I don't think you're understanding the experiment.

Letting the group sort itself out would defeat the experiment. If you let the group sort out for themselves who the boss is, most of the time the most-assertive individual will end up being the boss. The more-timid in the group will tend to sit back.

This invalidates the results.

The whole idea is to see if the domaneering behavior observed is a part of ALL of us, not just the ones who are assertive enough to usually end up being the boss.

The results say exactly that. Even if the most-timid in the group lucks out and gets to be the boss, he usually ends up taking the extra cookie and making a bigger mess.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7889636 - 01/16/08 06:44 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Letting the group sort itself out would defeat the experiment. If you let the group sort out for themselves who the boss is, most of the time the most-assertive individual will end up being the boss. The more-timid in the group will tend to sit back.

Would it? Wouldn't it depend to some extent, the nature of the task and the abilities of the person and how comfortable they were in the setting of the task?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7889637 - 01/16/08 06:45 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

A person without power... deals with the cards he is given.

A powerful person can and will try to manipulate the cards to his own advantage... from time to time.

As a regular Shroomerite... a person must deal with annoying people all the time.

As a Mod... if someone annoys you, you naturally consider banning the source of the annoyance. That doesn't mean you WILL ban them... but at the very least, most humans would consider it... for a moment... as long as they have the power.

Surely you have had such thoughts... or at the very least you have witnessed some of your fellow Mods doing such things.

Humans are either followers or leaders. When you lead, you act one way... when you follow you act another way.

That said, some do better with power than others.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
    #7889640 - 01/16/08 06:45 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

absolute power corrupts absolutely.


--------------------


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: learningtofly]
    #7889652 - 01/16/08 06:48 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
absolute power corrupts absolutely.




ya. this saying is popular for a good reason.


--------------------


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: learningtofly]
    #7889653 - 01/16/08 06:48 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

With great power comes great responsibility. -Uncle Ben


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: learningtofly]
    #7889658 - 01/16/08 06:49 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

absolute power corrupts absolutely.

There is no absolute power, in a group all have some power.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
    #7889697 - 01/16/08 06:56 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

my 2 cents on "with great power comes great responsibility" from a relativist standpoint

the slogan carries a logical inference of transference

if G (great power), then R (responsibility)

however, how often do we see multi-national corporations and the elite if this world choose to not accept responsibility and claim that they have no moral responsibility for humankind

the question of whether the elite really are responsible is debatable. they could say those who follow are responsible because they allow themselves to be dominated. or that nobody is really responsible for anything because of determinism.

we all feel in our hearts that this statement of responsibility is true though, don't we?
relativity can be a real bitch!


--------------------


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
    #7889709 - 01/16/08 06:58 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

A person without power... deals with the cards he is given.

A powerful person can and will try to manipulate the cards to his own advantage... from time to time.

As a regular Shroomerite... a person must deal with annoying people all the time.


As a Mod... if someone annoys you, you naturally consider banning the source of the annoyance. That doesn't mean you WILL ban them... but at the very least, most humans would consider it... for a moment... as long as they have the power.

Surely you have had such thoughts... or at the very least you have witnessed some of your fellow Mods doing such things.

Humans are either followers or leaders. When you lead, you act one way... when you follow you act another way.

That said, some do better with power than others.



:smile: Cervantes, as Icelander said, you should be a Mod.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7889738 - 01/16/08 07:02 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Would it? Wouldn't it depend to some extent, the nature of the task and the abilities of the person and how comfortable they were in the setting of the task?

You're still not getting it. The work was just meaningless busy work.

For the experiment to be valid, all strata of human must be given the opportunity to be the boss. If you let the group sort itself out, the assertive guy will always end up being the boss. So when we find that he always takes the cookie and makes the mess, you've gained no useful information; of course the assertive guy is going to take the cookie and make the mess.

The whole ideas was that sometimes the assertive guy gets randomly assigned to be boss, other times the passive guy gets assigned to be the boss.

But in (almost) ALL cases, no matter who got assigned to be the boss, that person took the cookie and made a mess. This happened when it was an assertive person chosen at random and when it was a passive person chosen at random.

This gives the result that ALL of us become domineering when we're placed in positions of authority and our basal personality seems to have little to do with it.

I use knowledge of this fact of human behavior to mediate everything I do when I'm in a position of authority. As a mod here, for example, this experiment pops into my conscious awareness every time I take disciplinary action against a Shroomerite. I ask myself if I'm becoming the domineering boss in those experiments (I'm an easy-going passive person for the most part) or are the disciplinary actions I'm about to take just and reasonable?

It behooves us all to use this knowledge of ourselves to better ourselves and the world we live in.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7889771 - 01/16/08 07:10 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

The difference is that you earned the position of mod. You exhibited responsibility, you were found fit for the position.
The experiment shows that for a small task or two, when a person is put in a position of authority
they abuse it. Now had they done an experiment where the group was to be together for a couple months, the person in authority would have had to alter his behavior and consider how his actions affect others, as do you.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7889775 - 01/16/08 07:11 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Does Power Corrupt?

Well under the influence of power humans become corrupt or more corrupt. And that seems to be a fact.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Icelander]
    #7889811 - 01/16/08 07:18 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Well under the influence of power humans become corrupt or more corrupt. And that seems to be a fact.

I don't think that is a fact at all. Has Diploid become corrupt?
He is Mod with the Power to ban, move threads, ect.
In what way has he been corrupted?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7889818 - 01/16/08 07:20 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Crazy crazy timing, at lunch today I watched half of an "Explorer" show that I had DVR'd (from the Science, TLC, or NatGeo channel) -
entitled "The Science of Evil",and it had the "Stanford Prison Experiment" in it....

It also spoke about what the US soldiers did to the prisoners in Iraq....
I need to watch the rest of it....
It is interesting and sometimes sickening what us humans are capable of doing to each other - for no reason at all.....    :frown:


Quote:

Diploid said:
What does that say about us? Will knowledge of this fact of human nature influence your behavior when you're placed in a position of authority over others?




I certainly hope that I am above and beyond this in my own personal nature - with or without seeing such a show.....
However, I most likely would not accept a position of authority in the first place....
Nor would I give in to peer pressure in such an instance....
I lead myself, I am not good at leading others....

This of course sounds "great", and is easy to say while in no context....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7889835 - 01/16/08 07:26 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
The difference is that you earned the position of mod. You exhibited responsibility, you were found fit for the position.
The experiment shows that for a small task or two, when a person is put in a position of authority
they abuse it. Now had they done an experiment where the group was to be together for a couple months, the person in authority would have had to alter his behavior and consider how his actions affect others, as do you.




So you think that as long as the position of power has been earned, the individual will not be inclined to abuse his or her position? What criteria would you consider counts as "earning"? Does democratic election count? If so, I might remind you that Mussolini and Hitler were both elected. They didn't take power by force.

edit: Milosevic was also democratically elected.


Edited by NiamhNyx (01/16/08 07:30 PM)


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7889885 - 01/16/08 07:36 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Leaders have power, followers have power, in a group it reaches a balance.


So you think that as long as the position of power has been earned, the individual will not be inclined to abuse his or her position?

Assigned or earned the postion of power is never absolute. If you have to deal with people later you abused, you may be abused yourself.

Does legal election count?

I think it is an excellent example, as a voter you may arbitrarily assign your vote or chose a canidate who you think has earned it and will treat it with respect.

If so, I might remind you that Mussolini and Hitler were both elected. :shrug:

It's possible to make bad choices.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7889968 - 01/16/08 07:49 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)


Leaders have power, followers have power, in a group it reaches a balance.


Does it?


Assigned or earned the postion of power is never absolute. If you have to deal with people later you abused, you may be abused yourself.


I find it striking how many of the 20th century's most gruesome dictators died old and peacefully. Many of them lived much longer than they deserved. Those who would abuse power are also inclined to surround themselves with a great deal of protection. Pinochet died at 91 without having been convicted of a single crime.

I think it is an excellent example, as a voter you may arbitrarily assign your vote or chose a canidate who you think has earned it and will treat it with respect.

Assuming the candidates are completely honest about thier intentions and motivations....

It's possible to make bad choices.

Clearly.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7890024 - 01/16/08 08:00 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Stanford Prison Experiment anyone?



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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7890046 - 01/16/08 08:04 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
Quote:

falcon said:Leaders have power, followers have power, in a group it reaches a balance.




Does it?




Yes.

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
Quote:

falcon said:Assigned or earned the postion of power is never absolute. If you have to deal with people later you abused, you may be abused yourself.




I find it striking how many of the 20th century's most gruesome dictators died old and peacefully. Many of them lived much longer than they deserved. Those who would abuse power are also inclined to surround themselves with a great deal of protection. Pinochet died at 91 without having been convicted of a single crime.




I do too.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7890050 - 01/16/08 08:05 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
Leaders have power, followers have power, in a group it reaches a balance.




Reaching an understanding of roles in a group does not make it a "balance of power".....    :wink:

It is said that in a dominant submissive role-play scenario, it is the submissive one who has the power by being able to say a safe-word at his/her leisure.....
It is a balance of power in these roles - just so long as the rules are followed by all participants in play....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7890073 - 01/16/08 08:10 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
:smile: Cervantes, as Icelander said, you should be a Mod.





Thanks... I think.

Anyway... been there, done that. I don't think I'd do it again... even if I was asked nicely. To bastardize a quote from Spiro Agnew, VP to Richard Nixon: IMHO, Moderating at THIS website isn't worth a pitcher of warm spit.

Mods here have a code of silence. Mods here aren't allowed to tell people the truth behind their actions if it reveals the secrets of the Mod forum.

A few years ago, when some of the Staff here began banning people without cause, I couldn't continue to uphold that silly code, so I stepped down. I thought stepping down would allow me to be honest in public. I thought stepping down would allow me to tell people that the bans WERE happening without cause. I was wrong. Stepping down and speaking up got me in a lot of trouble... and it cost me a lot more than my Modship.

The creator of this website (The ALL POWERFUL wonder kid, Ythan) had me perma-banned on Christmas day, a few years ago. When I was banned, I hadn't posted here in several days. He never told me why he did it. I suspect it was because I was too honest.

Nobody on the Staff ever accused me of lying. Nobody accused me of breaking a rule. I was just instantly perma-banned. :shrug:

Thank God the other Mods rallied to get my ban lifted.

Still, I got the point... and stayed off these boards for a couple years, before coming back.

Diploid saw it all happen... but he wasn't yet a Mod. I think he's better suited for the job than I ever was. :thumbup:

But I am here to tell you, power DOES corrupt.

And I am not afraid to question a Mod's actions if I see something I don't like.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (01/16/08 08:24 PM)


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7890125 - 01/16/08 08:21 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Quote:PhanTomCat said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

falcon said:
Leaders have power, followers have power, in a group it reaches a balance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Reaching an understanding of roles in a group does not make it a "balance of power"..... :wink:

It is said that in a dominant submissive role-play scenario, it is the submissive one who has the power by being able to say a safe-word at his/her leisure.....
It is a balance of power in these roles - just so long as the rules are followed by all participants in play....




:lol: Ah, one of the responsiblities of the participants is to be aware of the rules.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #7890131 - 01/16/08 08:22 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

That experiment is unbelievable. Maybe unbelievable isn't the right word, because the results are not particularly suprising to me, just that the implications are horrific. These people knew they were acting and that it wasn't thier 'real life.' They could have chosen to leave the experiment, or refused to follow the rules, yet not a single individual made such a choice. Now translate that into everyday reality, into the roles people identify themselves with in thier day to day lives...


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
    #7890147 - 01/16/08 08:25 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
But I am here to tell you, power DOES corrupt.




** Power can corrupt those individuals that are susceptible to corruption....
There are **always** exceptions to the general rules....

Moderation is always key....    :wink:
Well, maybe not the "mod" kind of moderation.....    :tongue:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7890171 - 01/16/08 08:29 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

You're just picking nits. :tongue:


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Fiddlesticks.



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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
    #7890194 - 01/16/08 08:33 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
You're just picking nits. :tongue:




Yeah, it is all semantics....    :thumbup:
I like to play....!    :grin:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
    #7890196 - 01/16/08 08:34 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Your welcome.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7890212 - 01/16/08 08:36 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

:smirk: :smile:


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? *DELETED* [Re: Rose]
    #7890230 - 01/16/08 08:39 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Post deleted by LunarEclipse

Reason for deletion: yawn



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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7890404 - 01/16/08 09:16 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

The creator of this website (The ALL POWERFUL wonder kid, Ythan) had me perma-banned on Christmas day, a few years ago. When I was banned, I hadn't posted here in several days. He never told me why he did it. I suspect it was because I was too honest.





I suspect it was because he fucking COULD "perma-ban" you, just like he fucking COULD "unperma-ban" you. Scary like that kid in Star Trek...Thank God Kirk was around to set him straight.




Man, in his eyes, this is HIS site. Almost everything that makes this place unique was programmed by him. He started The Shroomery when he was 14. The Shroomery is 10 years old. You do the math.

He did it because he was young. Because he could... and because I was creating a LOT of drama... at the very least I was creating drama in his eyes. The Staff serves to quell drama. And usually, that is a good thing.

He thought he was doing the right thing... but he failed to realize the emotional impact such action would have on me... and the others who were banned without cause.

Powerful people do things for the right reasons... at least in their eyes. But they DO (more often than not) eventually forget what it is like to be without such power.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (01/16/08 09:25 PM)


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7890496 - 01/16/08 09:38 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:
But I am here to tell you, power DOES corrupt.




Power can corrupt those individuals that are susceptible to corruption....




But not you of course; you're not susceptible to corruption, right?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #7890796 - 01/16/08 10:27 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
But not you of course; you're not susceptible to corruption, right?





Everyone is....  Me not withstanding.... 
Everything in it's right context.... 
Perception is always a tricky thing....
But intent, only the person "doing" can know where his heart is when "doing"........   
Then there is the smearable grey area, always up for interpretation....
I would like to think that I would choose with my heart in the right place - without using that as an excuse for a grey area....    :thumbup:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7890938 - 01/16/08 10:53 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
I would like to think that I would choose with my heart in the right place




I'm sure you would like to think that, who wouldn't? But keep this in mind: you mentioned "context"; yes, context is importance. I think everyone here underestimates the degree to which a major change in one's environment/circumstances could alter their usual patterns of behavior. Even the meekest, most introverted pacifist can become a cold-blooded killer if pushed far enough and/or when driven by his primal instincts. To further explore the topic at hand, I highly reconmend you watch the film Straw Dogs; it gracefully deals with the exact topic of this particular discussion.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #7890980 - 01/16/08 11:06 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I banned Luvdemshrooms once. Because we disagreed. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I did it because I had the power to do it.

I am not proud.

Power corrupted me.

Hard to admit, but it did.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #7891027 - 01/16/08 11:18 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
I'm sure you would like to think that, who wouldn't?  But keep this in mind: you mentioned "context"; yes, context is importance.  I think everyone here underestimates the degree to which a major change in one's environment/circumstances could alter their usual patterns of behavior.  Even the meekest, most introverted pacifist can become a cold-blooded killer if pushed far enough and/or when driven by his primal instincts. 




I don't disagree - being in war/combat situations is a "good" example.... 
Psychologically, after being put in those types of situations, it has got to change a person at the very core ....


Quote:

it stars saddam said:
To further explore the topic at hand, I highly reconmend you watch the film Straw Dogs; it gracefully deals with the exact topic of this particular discussion.




I wrote it down....    :thumbup:
The name sounds familiar, but I don't think I have seen it.... 


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #7891085 - 01/16/08 11:32 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Straw Dogs: http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Straw_Dogs/1006554?trkid=189530

It's in my queue now. Thanks for the suggestion.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7891237 - 01/17/08 12:04 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Awesome. I'm glad you guys aren't just blowing off my comment and are actually intending to view the film. You won't regret it.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7891284 - 01/17/08 12:14 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

The social psychologist Philip Zimbardo wrote a whole book about this subject, called The Lucifer Effect. His conclusion, to be brief, was that situational factors have an enormously powerful effect upon human behavior.

The impetus for his line of research was an experiment he conducted in the 60's to study the effects of imprisonment. Using college students as his subjects, he created an artificial - but very realistic - prison. A group of students were assigned as guards and another group were assigned as prisoners. Eventually, the "guards" begin to act like real prison guards and less like typical longhaired liberal college students. Once they took on their new identities, their behavior changed radically. The study had to be ended prematurely, because the "guards" began abusing the prisoners.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7891309 - 01/17/08 12:18 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Well shit... somebody already mentioned this... :mad:


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7891444 - 01/17/08 12:56 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
The social psychologist Philip Zimbardo wrote a whole book about this subject, called The Lucifer Effect.




I've noticed that recently a lot of sexy, local, intellectual women have been walking around carrying that book under their arms, as if it were some kind of status symbol of intellectual elitism. It works out well for myself; great conversation starter. I can stroll on over and say something like "oh wow, that is a great book; I've read it twice. In fact, I bought it on March 13, 2007, the day it was released. What do you think of it?" Boom. Locked in.

In all seriousness though, that is a damn good book. I like Phillip Zimbardo; he's very charming despite his heinous experiments.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7891768 - 01/17/08 04:36 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Yes....next.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7891871 - 01/17/08 06:14 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I just propose the positive side of power, which doesn't corrupt: That's if the situation is seen like on a ship, where the captain has the leading power. If he will stand to his men, is a part of them and understands them, then they will freely give their power to him/her and a good symbiosis is created.
If the captain won't do this, the crew was free to mutiny.
It's about bottom to top and/or top to bottom - power.
Where the power is decoupled from the subjects (one has power on) and the subjects are not able to interact, then it is dictatorshit, slavery and suppression, which is that other side of power, that really corrupts and a Jedi would call..the dark side of power :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
    #7892077 - 01/17/08 08:29 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

He thought he was doing the right thing... but he failed to realize the emotional impact such action would have on me... and the others who were banned without cause.





"Banned without cause". Cmon man you may not agree with their cause but you really can't say that. Regardless of how you feel about Ythan, he in effect "owns" the website and doesn't have to be "reasonable" or even "fair" when it comes to who he allows on the site.

Remember the sign in the store "Management reserves the right to refuse service to anyone"? Usually it was a surly looking guy at a restaurant that you really didn't want to get pissed off at you anyway.

Somehow I can't picture Ythan to be a big surly guy just looking for someone to ban from his establishment. But, like anyone, you press enough buttons and eventually they hit the pissed off stage. There were a lot of buttons being pushed back before you got banned.

As to the "emotional fallout" from being 86ed from some bar, kicked out of the coffee house, or banned from a website, I would guess that Management Reserves their Right To Be Hard Asses and To Not Give a Fuck. That's why they are managers and in charge. Do you think most bosses go home and worry about the emotional fallout to the guy they fired that day for being insubordinate? Hell no, here's your paycheck smart ass and don't come back.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7892176 - 01/17/08 09:14 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
Well under the influence of power humans become corrupt or more corrupt. And that seems to be a fact.

I don't think that is a fact at all. Has Diploid become corrupt?
He is Mod with the Power to ban, move threads, ect.
In what way has he been corrupted?




Give me a break.:tongue: We're talking about real power over people. And only Diploid knows the truth about his moderation.

And just because it is the norm that power corrupts there will always be one or two exceptions to the rule. (maybe)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
    #7892203 - 01/17/08 09:24 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

falcon said:
:smile: Cervantes, as Icelander said, you should be a Mod.





Thanks... I think.

Anyway... been there, done that. I don't think I'd do it again... even if I was asked nicely. To bastardize a quote from Spiro Agnew, VP to Richard Nixon: IMHO, Moderating at THIS website isn't worth a pitcher of warm spit.

Mods here have a code of silence. Mods here aren't allowed to tell people the truth behind their actions if it reveals the secrets of the Mod forum.

A few years ago, when some of the Staff here began banning people without cause, I couldn't continue to uphold that silly code, so I stepped down. I thought stepping down would allow me to be honest in public. I thought stepping down would allow me to tell people that the bans WERE happening without cause. I was wrong. Stepping down and speaking up got me in a lot of trouble... and it cost me a lot more than my Modship.

The creator of this website (The ALL POWERFUL wonder kid, Ythan) had me perma-banned on Christmas day, a few years ago. When I was banned, I hadn't posted here in several days. He never told me why he did it. I suspect it was because I was too honest.

Nobody on the Staff ever accused me of lying. Nobody accused me of breaking a rule. I was just instantly perma-banned. :shrug:

Thank God the other Mods rallied to get my ban lifted.

Still, I got the point... and stayed off these boards for a couple years, before coming back.

Diploid saw it all happen... but he wasn't yet a Mod. I think he's better suited for the job than I ever was. :thumbup:

But I am here to tell you, power DOES corrupt.

And I am not afraid to question a Mod's actions if I see something I don't like.




Ythan and Geokills are a perfect example of what this thread is all about. Geokills also gave me a 30 day ban in violation of the rules stated for such a ban.

I always admired the way you tried to bring everyone together around the facts "truth" during that time even though I tried my best to argue that you were being naive and were headed for disappointment.

You're really too good to be a mod here. (unlike Diploid.:lol:)

Kidding of course. Diploid will have a fine ol time here as long as things run fairly smooth. If he ever has to go against the grain on principle he will most likely be done for.

Of course you suspected correctly that I was kidding you about becoming a mod. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/17/08 11:16 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Icelander]
    #7892340 - 01/17/08 10:11 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Diploid will have a fine ol time here as long as things run fairly smooth. If he ever has to go against the grain on principle he will most likely be done for.

The smart warrior fights only those battles he has some chance of winning. Cervantes learned that the hard way. :yesnod:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #7892411 - 01/17/08 10:35 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
The social psychologist Philip Zimbardo wrote a whole book about this subject, called The Lucifer Effect.




I've noticed that recently a lot of sexy, local, intellectual women have been walking around carrying that book under their arms, as if it were some kind of status symbol of intellectual elitism. It works out well for myself; great conversation starter. I can stroll on over and say something like "oh wow, that is a great book; I've read it twice. In fact, I bought it on March 13, 2007, the day it was released. What do you think of it?" Boom. Locked in.

In all seriousness though, that is a damn good book. I like Phillip Zimbardo; he's very charming despite his heinous experiments.




Hahah, maybe I should start carrying this book around campus. An interesting read that's makes for an easy pick-up? Yes please!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7892532 - 01/17/08 11:11 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Diploid will have a fine ol time here as long as things run fairly smooth. If he ever has to go against the grain on principle he will most likely be done for.

The smart warrior fights only those battles he has some chance of winning. Cervantes learned that the hard way. :yesnod:




You're right.:thumbup: By learning it the "hard way" I think there is a good chance he really did learn something and you can ask no more than that. (and get it)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/17/08 11:12 AM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
    #7892546 - 01/17/08 11:15 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Diploid will have a fine ol time here as long as things run fairly smooth. If he ever has to go against the grain on principle he will most likely be done for.

The smart warrior fights only those battles he has some chance of winning. Cervantes learned that the hard way. :yesnod:




Heh, I'd actually won the SAME battle a year earlier. But nobody knew about it 'cause it all happened behind the scenes. I am sure geokills remembers THAT one. Heh, geo and I have a mutual respect for one another, because of our epic backstage arguments.

I have never worked so hard at something in my life... as I have worked for this website. 14 hour days were the norm for me... during the two years I was a Mod. I thought that'd make me ban-proof. It didn't... but I did get to speak my mind for A LOT longer than I would've if I'd never worked here.

My mistake was going public.

Ythan's mistake is innocent enough. He's been a part of this website for almost HALF his life. I doubt he really remembers what it is like to NOT be king. 99.99% of the time, he does a wonderful job. But he doesn't deal with social issues here... so when  he steps in with his ban-stick... he is often ill informed.

Icelander's mistake... was being a true Moderate. How ironic. :shrug:

This place can remind me of the police dept. in the HBO series, "The Wire". Sometimes the system just gets in the way of real policing.

On another note...

It is common for some Mods here to think whenever they have to do some work... like, move a thread, or lock one... somebody should be banned (or at LEAST, warned). This forum no longer seems to be such a place. Thank God. :thumbup:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (01/17/08 11:40 AM)


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Icelander]
    #7894410 - 01/17/08 07:02 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Diploid will have a fine ol time here as long as things run fairly smooth. If he ever has to go against the grain on principle he will most likely be done for.




When I read this, I thought,  "No he won't, Diploid is a diploid...!"
(fully thinking "Diploid" was a word similar to "diplomat" this whole time)

OOoooops.....      :shiftyeyes:

:lol:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineBoots
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
    #7896241 - 01/18/08 07:06 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

I think it depends on the person, but that sounds like a cop-out answer; an excuse to get my shit read.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #7897180 - 01/18/08 12:22 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Post deleted by LunarEclipse

Reason for deletion: dip.sh.it



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7897187 - 01/18/08 12:24 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Well you maybe can't fight it but you don't have to live there.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7897305 - 01/18/08 12:50 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

what if you wear a helmet made out of steel?


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Boots]
    #7907629 - 01/20/08 09:54 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Boots said:
Quote:

falcon said:
Quote:

Icelander said: Well under the influence of power humans become corrupt or more corrupt. And that seems to be a fact.




I don't think that is a fact at all. Has Diploid become corrupt?
He is Mod with the Power to ban, move threads, ect.
In what way has he been corrupted?




I think it depends on the person, but that sounds like a cop-out answer; an excuse to get my shit read.




Cop-out, not at all. It is nice to get my shit read.

You said, I think it depends on the person.

Did you mean that it depend on the person whether power corrupts?


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