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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Does Power Corrupt?
#7889336 - 01/16/08 05:44 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Some time ago I read about an interesting experiment in the field of psychology conducted at Stanford.
The researchers placed three people in a room, arbitrarily assigned one of them as 'the boss', and asked them to perform some tedious work. None knew the nature of the experiment.
After some time working, the group of three were given a plate of five cookies. They were told this was a snack, but the cookies were part of the experiment.
In almost every case, the boss took an extra cookie and was measurably messier than the two workers.
The movie The Experiment is based on those experiments, only in the movie, the experiment is allowed to run its course to a chilling, and plausible, conclusion.
Even otherwise nice people tend to become domineering and oafish when given power over others. The magnitude of this effect seems to be inversely proportional to the age/maturity of the person in power.
What does that say about us? Will knowledge of this fact of human nature influence your behavior when you're placed in a position of authority over others?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
#7889411 - 01/16/08 05:59 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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From my own experience I realized that the need to control in the result of anxiety. So I guess that as long that we will have fears, this impulse will come back to us; it is a very strong and versatile instinct and the more I analyze it, the more I realize how much of it remains in the unconscious realm. We do it without even know what the hell we're doing and why.
I think that a good exercise is to try to remember how much we personally hate to be controlled. I do believe that progress can be done only that it requires much focus and intention. And that being able once to rid this impulse once does not mean that it will automatically be excluded from all the rest of the situations.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
#7889429 - 01/16/08 06:03 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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researchers placed three people in a room, arbitrarily assigned one of them as 'the boss',
What does that say about us?
Since that position of authority was arbitrarily assigned I don't think it says a lot.
Will knowledge of this fact of human nature influence your behavior when you're placed in a position of authority over others?
No, but it will influence my behavior when I'm placed in a position to (edit)arbitrarily(edit) put people in a position of authority.
Edited by falcon (01/16/08 06:11 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
#7889498 - 01/16/08 06:18 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Since that position of authority was arbitrarily assigned I don't think it says a lot.
How else could the experiment be conducted other than to randomly pick one of the three to be "the boss"?
How would you do this experiment?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
#7889544 - 01/16/08 06:28 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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How else could the experiment be conducted other than to randomly pick one of the three to be "the boss"?
I don't know.
Maybe assign a task to a lot of group of three and then let them sort out who does what. Observe their behavior. Then assign bosses once you know something about the groups you set up.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
#7889566 - 01/16/08 06:32 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Or better yet have a fourth person for each group of three who observes and have him pick the boss for a second task after observing the three preform the first task.
What kind of subtrefuge would the experimenters would need to use to keep the experimentees in the dark about the nature of the experiment would probably be the most interesting thing about this.
One of TV networks could make a reality show about this.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
#7889580 - 01/16/08 06:34 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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I think that the purpose of the experiment was to analyze the behavior of someone who was given this function. Your idea of experiment would have results that belong to a different category.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
#7889582 - 01/16/08 06:34 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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I don't think you're understanding the experiment.
Letting the group sort itself out would defeat the experiment. If you let the group sort out for themselves who the boss is, most of the time the most-assertive individual will end up being the boss. The more-timid in the group will tend to sit back.
This invalidates the results.
The whole idea is to see if the domaneering behavior observed is a part of ALL of us, not just the ones who are assertive enough to usually end up being the boss.
The results say exactly that. Even if the most-timid in the group lucks out and gets to be the boss, he usually ends up taking the extra cookie and making a bigger mess.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Last seen: 8 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
#7889636 - 01/16/08 06:44 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Letting the group sort itself out would defeat the experiment. If you let the group sort out for themselves who the boss is, most of the time the most-assertive individual will end up being the boss. The more-timid in the group will tend to sit back.
Would it? Wouldn't it depend to some extent, the nature of the task and the abilities of the person and how comfortable they were in the setting of the task?
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
#7889637 - 01/16/08 06:45 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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A person without power... deals with the cards he is given.
A powerful person can and will try to manipulate the cards to his own advantage... from time to time.
As a regular Shroomerite... a person must deal with annoying people all the time.
As a Mod... if someone annoys you, you naturally consider banning the source of the annoyance. That doesn't mean you WILL ban them... but at the very least, most humans would consider it... for a moment... as long as they have the power.
Surely you have had such thoughts... or at the very least you have witnessed some of your fellow Mods doing such things.
Humans are either followers or leaders. When you lead, you act one way... when you follow you act another way.
That said, some do better with power than others.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
#7889640 - 01/16/08 06:45 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Quote:
learningtofly said: absolute power corrupts absolutely.
ya. this saying is popular for a good reason.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
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With great power comes great responsibility. -Uncle Ben
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Last seen: 8 hours, 51 minutes
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absolute power corrupts absolutely.
There is no absolute power, in a group all have some power.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
#7889697 - 01/16/08 06:56 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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my 2 cents on "with great power comes great responsibility" from a relativist standpoint
the slogan carries a logical inference of transference
if G (great power), then R (responsibility)
however, how often do we see multi-national corporations and the elite if this world choose to not accept responsibility and claim that they have no moral responsibility for humankind
the question of whether the elite really are responsible is debatable. they could say those who follow are responsible because they allow themselves to be dominated. or that nobody is really responsible for anything because of determinism.
we all feel in our hearts that this statement of responsibility is true though, don't we? relativity can be a real bitch!
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falcon


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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Rose]
#7889709 - 01/16/08 06:58 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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A person without power... deals with the cards he is given.
A powerful person can and will try to manipulate the cards to his own advantage... from time to time.
As a regular Shroomerite... a person must deal with annoying people all the time.
As a Mod... if someone annoys you, you naturally consider banning the source of the annoyance. That doesn't mean you WILL ban them... but at the very least, most humans would consider it... for a moment... as long as they have the power.
Surely you have had such thoughts... or at the very least you have witnessed some of your fellow Mods doing such things.
Humans are either followers or leaders. When you lead, you act one way... when you follow you act another way.
That said, some do better with power than others.
Cervantes, as Icelander said, you should be a Mod.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: falcon]
#7889738 - 01/16/08 07:02 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Would it? Wouldn't it depend to some extent, the nature of the task and the abilities of the person and how comfortable they were in the setting of the task?
You're still not getting it. The work was just meaningless busy work.
For the experiment to be valid, all strata of human must be given the opportunity to be the boss. If you let the group sort itself out, the assertive guy will always end up being the boss. So when we find that he always takes the cookie and makes the mess, you've gained no useful information; of course the assertive guy is going to take the cookie and make the mess.
The whole ideas was that sometimes the assertive guy gets randomly assigned to be boss, other times the passive guy gets assigned to be the boss.
But in (almost) ALL cases, no matter who got assigned to be the boss, that person took the cookie and made a mess. This happened when it was an assertive person chosen at random and when it was a passive person chosen at random.
This gives the result that ALL of us become domineering when we're placed in positions of authority and our basal personality seems to have little to do with it.
I use knowledge of this fact of human behavior to mediate everything I do when I'm in a position of authority. As a mod here, for example, this experiment pops into my conscious awareness every time I take disciplinary action against a Shroomerite. I ask myself if I'm becoming the domineering boss in those experiments (I'm an easy-going passive person for the most part) or are the disciplinary actions I'm about to take just and reasonable?
It behooves us all to use this knowledge of ourselves to better ourselves and the world we live in.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
#7889771 - 01/16/08 07:10 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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The difference is that you earned the position of mod. You exhibited responsibility, you were found fit for the position. The experiment shows that for a small task or two, when a person is put in a position of authority they abuse it. Now had they done an experiment where the group was to be together for a couple months, the person in authority would have had to alter his behavior and consider how his actions affect others, as do you.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Diploid]
#7889775 - 01/16/08 07:11 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Does Power Corrupt?
Well under the influence of power humans become corrupt or more corrupt. And that seems to be a fact.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Does Power Corrupt? [Re: Icelander]
#7889811 - 01/16/08 07:18 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Well under the influence of power humans become corrupt or more corrupt. And that seems to be a fact.
I don't think that is a fact at all. Has Diploid become corrupt? He is Mod with the Power to ban, move threads, ect. In what way has he been corrupted?
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