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Invisiblemanyc
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Registered: 01/03/04
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Loc: Axis Mundi
Hallucinations vs Illusions (and more)
    #7885055 - 01/15/08 06:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I would like to know what your individual experiences with any entheogen have been mostly comprised of... such as, your intent, and what kinds of things you've experienced.

Have you ever seen something that truly wasn't actually on this plane of existence, but a manufactured image created by your brain that seemed to be moving about and interacting with the physical environment? I have never had such an experience, but one of my friends says he has; it is also worth noting that his father has mild schizophrenia, though.

Wikipedia's entry on hallucinations:

"An hallucination is a perception in the absence of a stimulus that the person may or may not believe is real. Hallucinations may occur in any sensory modality—visual, auditory, olfactory, gustatory, tactile, proprioceptive, equilibrioceptive, nociceptive, thermoceptive. Hallucinations are different from illusions. In an illusory experience, a genuine sensation is attributed to an incorrect cause, misinterpreting a coat hanging on a door to be an intruder or thinking there is water on a hot road, due to the heat rising from the road. A delusional perception is where a genuine perception (ie. correctly sensed and interpreted) is given some additional (and typically bizarre) significance. Hypnagogic hallucinations and hypnopompic hallucinations are considered normal phenomena. Hypnagogic hallucinations can occur as one is falling asleep and hypnopompic hallucinations occur when one is waking up. Hallucinations may also be associated with drug use (particularly hallucinogenic drugs), sleep deprivation, psychosis or neurological illness."-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination


So - most people experience illusions, but it is when something is created purely of your mind's powerful design, and has been projected onto your physical senses that a true hallucination is taking place. Fucking amazing.

My friend has also reported hearing these entities that he has seen, saying that on one occasion he was alone in his attic on LSD when about seven individual beings were communicating with him, and vice versa. I have never had an auditory hallucination in which I hear a voice at all, but these types of hallucinations are ALWAYS the first kind that I notice when entering an entheogenic experience... especially from LSD. There is one sound that he and I both have agreed we heard upon taking an irresponsibly large dose, and it can only be described as a droning, continuous... "waaAHHAaahwaaAHHAaahwWah..." like a wah pedal on a guitar, being applied to every bit of static your ears are picking up while your senses are submerged in LSD.

My friend, as of now, exhibits no signs of mental illness, although he has been evaluated and prescribed mood stabilizers and the like. There is actually a movement for people like this... aptly named, Hearing Voices Movement(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_Voices_Movement).

I have an inclination to spiritual, or other-worldly, explanations for certain things, and to a certain extent. I don't believe these speculations as fact, but acknowledge and enjoy pondering their possibility for truth. The old adage "truth is always stranger than fiction" often rings true in the world of science.

I certainly believe that some people are more naturally inclined to having a clairvoyant ability - but unless they realize this and nurture the gift, it will fade away from neglect. Their body's etheric energy is more focused so to speak, than the average Joe's. If you allow yourselves to become immersed and enveloped in modern, everyday distractions such as advertising (which is a plague upon us all), luxury, and excess, the light of our souls will be snuffed by the darkness of apathy and mediocrity.

As for the scientific explanations of hearing voices:

"Various theories have been put forward to explain the occurrence of hallucinations. When psychodynamic (Freudian) theories were popular in psychiatry, hallucinations were seen as a projection of unconscious wishes, thoughts and wants. As biological theories have become orthodox, hallucinations are more often thought of (by psychiatrists at least) as being caused by functional deficits in the brain. With reference to mental illness, the function (or dysfunction) of the neurotransmitter dopamine is thought to be particularly important.[7] Psychological research has argued that hallucinations may result from biases in what are known as metacognitive abilities.[8] These are abilities that allow us to monitor or draw inferences from our own internal psychological states (such as intentions, memories, beliefs and thoughts). The ability to discriminate between self-generated and external sources of information is considered to be an important metacognitive skill and one which may break down to cause hallucinatory experiences. Projection of an internal state or a person's own reaction to another may arise in the form of hallucinations, especially auditory hallucinations. A few scientists have argued that such hallucinations may be the result of other conscious thoughts."


I just thought this was some interesting shit to read, that many of the people here will enjoy digesting, and perhaps researching further.

Learning is fun.

Edited by manyc (01/15/08 06:50 PM)

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Offlinegreystealth
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Registered: 11/09/07
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Re: Hallucinations vs Illusions (and more) [Re: manyc]
    #7886568 - 01/15/08 11:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Carl Jung. PSYCHOLOGY!

I had closed-eyed visuals once that I was a cheetah going 85mph in the desert, going along with the music I was listening to(LTJ BUKEM).

Best visual I ever had...

As far as hallucinations, I took an eighth of mushrooms at a rave once, and everybody's face turned into a monster and freaked me out. Some monsters smiled at me....it was so creepy that I started looking at the ground, and looked like there were worms/bugs crawling. I was fortunate enough to snap out of it because I knew the fear was trying to get hold of me. I did, and the 'monsters' turned back to people.

RAVE HARD!


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Offlinehandicappedrat
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Registered: 12/15/07
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Re: Hallucinations vs Illusions (and more) [Re: greystealth]
    #7886931 - 01/16/08 12:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I guess everything has been an illusion on acid and not really a hallucination, but once on shrooms I closed my eyes and instead of seeing the psychedelic patterns and the crazy colors shifting, etc., I was riding a unicorn with a really long beard in a field, wearing really long flowing robes. I couldn't tell that my eyes were closed because it was so clear it was as if I had seen it with them open (I know that doesn't make sense, but basically it was as if closing them had opened a new pair).

I've never had that before but I'm sure it's because I've only shroomed once at night.

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Invisible04281969
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Re: Hallucinations vs Illusions (and more) [Re: handicappedrat]
    #7887793 - 01/16/08 10:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Then you get into the wonderful world of lucid dreams.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Hallucinations vs Illusions (and more) [Re: 04281969]
    #7887961 - 01/16/08 11:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I disaggree with the interpretations of text from wikipedia

if you react to the coat as if it were an intruder
then that is an illusion (error in perception)

if your illusion blossoms into a black knight with a skull crest and fractal perfect feather headress covered in jewels and riding white horse in a forest with streaking sunset... then it is an hallucination even though it was triggered by the coat and is situated in the same place as the coat, and may be linked to the coat such that if the coat is made to fall on the floor the black knight may fall off his horse.

that is just an example.

dream state or psychedelic compound based elements that magically linger in mind (after the slightest trigger) will form amazing (even horrifying) visions FROM THE LINGERING not from the error in perception.


the hallucination part is from persistence of partials layered together (lingering or slowed fading). the partials can be from sensation or memory (outer or inner) origins or both.

illusion, on the other hand, is just misapprehension, or erroneous connections made in recognition. often it is from being too tense, frightened, alienated, or just plain unknowing/ignorant.


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OfflineKonyap


Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: Hallucinations vs Illusions (and more) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7888123 - 01/16/08 12:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

feel like my visions layered honestly even tho its jus me

but hell a headless flying mini dragon and spiders will do that to you

on the other hand i cant help but look at the other worldly spraks or feel the raindrop

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Hallucinations vs Illusions (and more) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7888192 - 01/16/08 01:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe people who have "true hallucinations" are in the midst of an experience which is a way of manifesting a very real FEELING imagination that is either dormant, or not fully birthed; The psychedelic potentiates areas of the psyche that are already there, either lingering there because of genetics, the nurturing one receives, or probably a combination of the both.

I've played Dungeons and Dragons and have been building fantasy world, languages, cultures for 9-10 beofre I tripped at 17.5 ish years old; pushing my imaginination to the limits, and possibly then some.

I can safely say I've never had a true hallucination except on Salvia, and probably DMT when I try it; I'd have to admit, my salvia experiences do resonate of an untapped imagination WITHIN an imagination; My imagination is only currently composed of around 18,956 polygonal-thought-fractals, and salvia brings the redux and influx, yo.

I still stand by the mantra, "True Enough" sometimes.

Al our experiences could probably be broken down into the manner and motion in which neurons fire in yo brain.
My sense of self also tells me that is not ALL we should care about.

Good Thread, Musical Psychonaut.

I'm gonna have to side with Redgreenvines mostly on this one;

Redgreenvines: When you say magically lingers, could one say: Mysteriously inherent? Or essentially both the trigger and the lingering (the lingering being the form of the source of the trigger) are inherent, ingrained, genetic in base?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Hallucinations vs Illusions (and more) [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7888359 - 01/16/08 02:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Redgreenvines: When you say magically lingers, could one say: Mysteriously inherent? Or essentially both the trigger and the lingering (the lingering being the form of the source of the trigger) are inherent, ingrained, genetic in base?




jesus murphy, some sentences are very hard to follow. even when i describe the most complicated thing, I try to do it in the simplest way, I hope this works:

the magically above refers to the unreal realness of it, or the unexpected solidity of psychedelic experience (or dreams).

the triggers are anything that matches or satisfies your sensitivity in any regard at anytime, and your sensitivity is all your aggregate memory/personality (how you are poised to react - your attitude(s) (reactions include thought word and deed)).

normally a flash of (triggered) memory fades in an instant (1/15th of a second) unless supporting triggers for related memory arrive before the fading.

psychedelic or dreamstate increases the duration of fading of signals (triggers, including those arising from memory)b eyond 1/15th of a second sometimes up to 3 seconds).

so when a flash of something lasts longer it begins to overlapp the following flashes and in this way the hallucination accretes and builds upon itself.


this is ingrained or a natural part of mind function (how long triggers hang before fading) is the mental state which can also be considered as the degree of dreaminess or degree of resonance of the mind:
very wakeful is not that resonant,
slightly stoned or emotional is pretty resonant,
and very stoned or dreaming has huge resonance (visions and hallucinations)
and anything more is really really really weird.

separate from that, memory is formed as a binding of that which happens together in the same time in consciousness, including what you think of when something happens. Co-location, Co-temporality and Simmilarity are the key to associative memory formation.

after any memory is formed it will be recallable by associative triggers (likenesses) - it becomes part of personality.

the mind is like a reverberant membrane responding to these triggers. when it is stoned the responses last longer as well as the triggers, and layers become interesting, then confusing, and if it goes further, non-sense, no sense and amnesia (which is noncreation of memory).


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