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OfflineBrAiN
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The greatest hockey player ever?
    #7886402 - 01/15/08 10:32 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

which one?
Who was the better all-time player?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (01/15/08 10:32 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7886403 - 01/15/08 10:33 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Hah! No STAL OPTION, mofo's! You gotta pick 1


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7886957 - 01/16/08 01:05 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I preemptively vote for Syd the Kid.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: jewunit]
    #7886965 - 01/16/08 01:07 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Ditto.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7887025 - 01/16/08 01:38 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Yup


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7887203 - 01/16/08 04:04 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Ice Pele!


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: jewunit]
    #7887406 - 01/16/08 06:56 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
I preemptively vote for Syd the Kid.





I fart on your Crosby


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7887471 - 01/16/08 07:33 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

There is no question who it is.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7889530 - 01/16/08 06:25 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Uh, who is it?:shrug:

I imagine that it's somewhat up to the person's personality and what kind of team you want to have. I always play this game as if I'm a GM in a draft, and we're picking these guys from their prime, already aware of their longevity.

If I were starting a team, even though he's not the best player ever, I;d be hard pressed not to take Patrick Roy.

Arguments??


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7890076 - 01/16/08 08:10 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Interesting.., the goalie's never get that kinda recognition.

I'd put the drunken fool, Hasek, over Roy though


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7890135 - 01/16/08 08:22 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Friends of mine (who all know more about hockey than I do) were talking about who the greatest goaltender of all time the other night. They all spoke as if it were just common sense that Martin Brodeur is that goaltender. Later one of them conceded that you could maybe make a case for Patrick Roy.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7890180 - 01/16/08 08:30 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I don't see Tony Twist on that list


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7890189 - 01/16/08 08:32 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

You're Canadian, don't you know everything aboot hockey?


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: jewunit]
    #7890193 - 01/16/08 08:33 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Compared to the likes of you, yes.

:tongue:


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7890234 - 01/16/08 08:40 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Brodeur is lucky because he had Scott and Claude to bust so many heads for him before they even got into his zone.

If you're talking best of all time.. Roy and Hasek (lifetime SV of .923 and GAA of 2.20.. way better than Roy)

You guys remember Jim Carey from the caps? He got summoned to replace Beaupre (sp?) back in 94 from the minor leagues and all of the sudden this replacement just started putting up totally insane numbers.

Then as fast as he rose.. BAM... went back to the SUXOR.

That was a star that burned super bright really fast and burned out just as quick.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7890572 - 01/16/08 09:53 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Agreed about Brodeur. And yeah, I'd take a straight Hasek, but of course.....


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7892327 - 01/17/08 10:07 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I didn't vote because Gordy Howe was not an option.


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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Ziggen]
    #7893277 - 01/17/08 02:31 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Bobby Orr

and Brodeur will go down as the best goalie ever by the time he is done


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7893427 - 01/17/08 03:20 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Hasek still has way better lifetime stats than Marty or patrick.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7893476 - 01/17/08 03:31 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Hasek still has way better lifetime stats than Marty or patrick.




Shutouts

Brodeur: 94 in 15 seasons
Hasek: 76 in 15 seasons
Roy: 66 in 19 seasons

Wins

Brodeur: 508
Hasek: 370
Roy: 551

Career GAA

Brodeur: 2.21
Hasek: 2.21
Roy: 2.53

What stats were you talking about?


edit:

It should be noted that Terry Sawchuk has 103 career shutouts. As well, GAA depends on the era in which the goaltender played, as rule changes have a large bearing on the average number of goals scored per game by all players.


Edited by WhiskeyClone (01/17/08 03:35 PM)


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7893638 - 01/17/08 04:01 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

:lol:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7893652 - 01/17/08 04:04 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I must have been looking at a retarded site when I was lookin at Brodeur's GAA.... shit.

I still think Hasek is better. If you have way more shutouts than Hasek and the same GAA that means you had way more games where you let in a shit ton of goals.

Like I said before... when stats are similar... I think consistency is a great way to determine who's a better athlete.

Besides...Brodeur's played over 200 games more than Hasek... of course he's going to have more wins and shutouts. If you divide the wins and shutouts by the number of games each played for an average... you'd get about the exact same number.

Hasek's save percentage is a bit better than Brodeur's as well.... if you ask me that's a better way to determine skill than anything else. That's the percentage of SAVES to SHOTS... the one key skill you're supposed to do as a goalie.. BLOCK SHOTS.

You might get a shutout.. but who cares if you only get 10 shots against you the whole game.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7894873 - 01/17/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Ah yes I forgot save percentage... that is a big one

Ok,

Games per shutout

Brodeur: Shutout every 9.68 games
Hasek: Shutout every 9.13 games
Roy: Shutout every 15.59 games

Winning percentage

Brodeur: .554
Hasek: .522
Roy: .535

Save percentage

Brodeur: .913
Hasek: .923
Roy: .853


Hasek does have the edge in save percentage and shutout percentage. :yesnod:


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7894934 - 01/17/08 09:02 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I would give shutouts the least amount of credibility... it's just there as a cherry. It all factors into GAA anyways where it's a total tie between the two.

Winning percentage also is nice... but I think in order of the most accurate in telling the technical skill of a goalie in order of importance

(1) SV % (which is ALL on the goalie's skills and no one else)
then
(2) GAA (other factors like a good defense and shitty opponent lead to good GAA)
(3) then maybe all the bells and whistles like win and shoutout % which basically factors into GAA anyways.

0.1 may not sound like Hasek has that great of an edge... but after 20,000 shots against you in your lifetime I definately think that 0.1 edge means something.


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7895762 - 01/18/08 12:54 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Crap, I loved hockey as a kid and haven't really followed it since they tried to turn it into Nascar, I was very much unaware of Brodeur's dominance.

I stand corrected on the man, but I will keep the essence of my pick, Brodeur is my #1 pick.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7896131 - 01/18/08 05:46 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

They turned NHL into Nascar??? When did that happen? Just because the northern viewers have mullets and drink cheap, canadian beer,... don't confuse them with the southern mullet viewers that drink cheap, american beer. These rednecks should consider themselves lucky we even GAVE them The Stars and the Thrashers.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7896679 - 01/18/08 09:31 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

And the Hurricanes. Poor Hartford. Boy did those people ever love the Whale.


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7897654 - 01/18/08 02:33 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Exactly my point. I loved hockey back when I was a kid in the 80's and early 90's before they moved every team for the sake of cash (although some moves worked, Qubec to Denver for example) and then in the mid-nineties it became the "hot thing" for whatever reason. I was living in Phoenix when the coyotes were bein put together and had their first season. They were IT!! Two years later nobody hardly cared.

So no they didn't turn it into Nascar, but like I said, they tried. I don't know, it's never really felt the same to me. Kinda like when you find out the pretty girl you've had a crush on since the second grade got felt up by some grease ball. :shrug:

PS Good points about the mullets and beer.:thumbup:


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7898251 - 01/18/08 05:01 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

I think we have better talent due to the moving around... you have cities where people can pay more for the tickets and keep steady revenue for the clubs hosting these teams now. It sounds stupud yea, but that turns into higher salaries for the players which entices the best players in the world to come play here which makes for more exciting hockey.

Just look what "the deal" (the trade of gretzky to LA) did for California... California went from not giving a shit about hockey to having 3 teams in the state just a few years later.... live action hockey is available to more and more americans

... and less to the canadians... they don't deserve hockey anyway, not until they can make a descent beer.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7898920 - 01/18/08 07:51 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

That theory sucks.

The best players have always come to the NHL, name five great ice hockey players that didn't play in it.

Expansion has diluted the talent pool and shittier plays are now in the league, and I think they could cut it down to at least 20 teams.

In phoenix they give away two for one coyotes tickets on coke cases.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7899136 - 01/18/08 08:46 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Noetical said:
The best players have always come to the NHL, name five great ice hockey players that didn't play in it.




How about like every CCCP player before they started smuggling guys like Sergei Federov in in the early 90s. Admittedly, that was more political than simply a matter of those guys not wanting to play in the NHL, so I don't really know what my point is, other than simply to be contrarian.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7899399 - 01/18/08 09:45 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Noetical said:

Expansion has diluted the talent pool and shittier plays are now in the league, and I think they could cut it down to at least 20 teams.




Bullshit. There are plenty of great players now. Selane, Crosby, Ovechkin, Lecav, Iginla, Alfredson... helll look at Gonchar.. he's got stats like a center and he's DEFENSE!

The lineup of either Colorada or Detroit from just a few years ago rivalled that of any team's heyday


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7899859 - 01/18/08 11:48 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

I agree. Expansion in all of the sports has made the product weaker. Also allows lesser players to make it who never would have otherwise. Can anyone say Tampa Bay Devil Rays??


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7900245 - 01/19/08 02:40 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

There will always be stars, I never denied that.

I said the talent pool was diluted meaning there are a whole swack of shitty players who shouldn't be there but are because of numbers.



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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Ziggen]
    #7900255 - 01/19/08 02:42 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

brutal example totally taking the point out of context

and you still didn't even list five


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7900256 - 01/19/08 02:43 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Gordie Howe? Cakeface?


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7900276 - 01/19/08 02:48 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Gordie is the best candidate for intergalactic space heroics...


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7900286 - 01/19/08 02:50 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

I vote Cakeface.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7900770 - 01/19/08 08:34 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

I just think the whole 'nascarisation" idea is crap. If people are pissed that harfdord, Quebec and other teams moved ... don't blame the NHL commission... blame the fans in these areas that couldn't get their shit together to muster up enough support and money to keep their organization going. If you want a team that can avoid bankruptcy and bring world class players, you're going to need to generate enough money to have world class players...

Just look at Ottowa... they put a call out the other year when they had the higheset payroll in the NHL.... to all their fans that they needed to sell out game after game and the fans responded. They bought tickets in droves.

According to wiki

Quote:

The primary factors in the Whalers' departure from Hartford were market size and the lack of a modern playing facility. The Hartford Civic Center was small but adequate, and famously mocked for being attached to a shopping mall. As teams in the NHL began moving into larger, corporate-sponsored stadiums with luxury suites and other high-end amenities, it became increasingly apparent that a team playing in an aging municipal facility with limited revenue streams could not compete.

In 1994, Compuware founder Peter Karmanos purchased the Whalers. Karmanos pledged to keep the Whalers in Hartford for four years. Frustrated with lackluster attendance and corporate support, he announced in 1996 that if the Whalers were unable to sell at least 11,000 season tickets for the 1996-97 season, he would likely move the team.






Not only could Harford not even get enough fans in the stadium but it wasn't the NHL, but the owner that decided to move them. There's no "Nascarization" conspiracy being plotted by the central NHL powers.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7900775 - 01/19/08 08:37 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OneLessForeskin said:
Gordie Howe? Cakeface?




Gordie may hve been the best hockey player in his era, but he never put up numbers anywhere near Wayne or Mario.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7901577 - 01/19/08 12:51 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Bossy, best goal scorer ever??


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7913735 - 01/22/08 04:44 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

woohoooo OV #1 in goals after last night.

And fucking Backstrom man.. a rookie with 8 assists in 2 games. Insaniityyyy!!


Maybe now the guys that do the ppower rankings will finally stop giving us the shaft.

WHo are the other rookies in the leage right now?


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7955087 - 01/30/08 11:00 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Hockey fans on the Shroomery? :awesome:

Bobby Orr was the best player ever. Completely changed the game and offensively dominated it from a positionally that traditionally and historically is not offensive. Also was a scrappy tough bastard unlike either Lemiuex or Gretzky. If he had better knees he would automatically be the best.

Also Roberto Luongo is the best goaltender ever. That's right bitches I said it :box:

To answer the rookies
Patrick Kane in Chicago is sick and has 45 points in 50 games.
Jonathon Towes in Chicago as well has I believe 32 points in 36 games.
Tobias Enstrom in Atlanta with I think 32 points in 50 games as a defenseman.


In terms of who's going to get the Calder I would guess it's between Kane, Backstrom, and Enstrom (although Edler should some consideration goddamnit and I'm not just saying that as a Canucks fan) and I think Kane will get it just because he's putting up numbers in Chicago without any real established offensive teammates. I think Backstrom is more talented though.

Anyone on HFBoards.com?


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Hi  :scrambled:

My god... it's full of stars...


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OfflineApJunkie
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #7955369 - 01/30/08 12:36 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Gretzky had 50 goals in 39 games. Not even total points, 50 GOALS.


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: ApJunkie]
    #7955378 - 01/30/08 12:39 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

"By the time he finished playing in Edmonton, he held or shared 49 NHL records, which in itself was a record."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Gretzky

And then he played for 11 more years


Edited by ApJunkie (01/30/08 12:40 PM)


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #14544825 - 06/01/11 08:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Bobby Orr


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: ApJunkie]
    #14583096 - 06/09/11 01:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ApJunkie said:
"By the time he finished playing in Edmonton, he held or shared 49 NHL records, which in itself was a record."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Gretzky

And then he played for 11 more years




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