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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7893638 - 01/17/08 04:01 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

:lol:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7893652 - 01/17/08 04:04 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I must have been looking at a retarded site when I was lookin at Brodeur's GAA.... shit.

I still think Hasek is better. If you have way more shutouts than Hasek and the same GAA that means you had way more games where you let in a shit ton of goals.

Like I said before... when stats are similar... I think consistency is a great way to determine who's a better athlete.

Besides...Brodeur's played over 200 games more than Hasek... of course he's going to have more wins and shutouts. If you divide the wins and shutouts by the number of games each played for an average... you'd get about the exact same number.

Hasek's save percentage is a bit better than Brodeur's as well.... if you ask me that's a better way to determine skill than anything else. That's the percentage of SAVES to SHOTS... the one key skill you're supposed to do as a goalie.. BLOCK SHOTS.

You might get a shutout.. but who cares if you only get 10 shots against you the whole game.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7894873 - 01/17/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Ah yes I forgot save percentage... that is a big one

Ok,

Games per shutout

Brodeur: Shutout every 9.68 games
Hasek: Shutout every 9.13 games
Roy: Shutout every 15.59 games

Winning percentage

Brodeur: .554
Hasek: .522
Roy: .535

Save percentage

Brodeur: .913
Hasek: .923
Roy: .853


Hasek does have the edge in save percentage and shutout percentage. :yesnod:


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7894934 - 01/17/08 09:02 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I would give shutouts the least amount of credibility... it's just there as a cherry. It all factors into GAA anyways where it's a total tie between the two.

Winning percentage also is nice... but I think in order of the most accurate in telling the technical skill of a goalie in order of importance

(1) SV % (which is ALL on the goalie's skills and no one else)
then
(2) GAA (other factors like a good defense and shitty opponent lead to good GAA)
(3) then maybe all the bells and whistles like win and shoutout % which basically factors into GAA anyways.

0.1 may not sound like Hasek has that great of an edge... but after 20,000 shots against you in your lifetime I definately think that 0.1 edge means something.


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7895762 - 01/18/08 12:54 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Crap, I loved hockey as a kid and haven't really followed it since they tried to turn it into Nascar, I was very much unaware of Brodeur's dominance.

I stand corrected on the man, but I will keep the essence of my pick, Brodeur is my #1 pick.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7896131 - 01/18/08 05:46 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

They turned NHL into Nascar??? When did that happen? Just because the northern viewers have mullets and drink cheap, canadian beer,... don't confuse them with the southern mullet viewers that drink cheap, american beer. These rednecks should consider themselves lucky we even GAVE them The Stars and the Thrashers.


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InvisibleZiggen
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7896679 - 01/18/08 09:31 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

And the Hurricanes. Poor Hartford. Boy did those people ever love the Whale.


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7897654 - 01/18/08 02:33 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Exactly my point. I loved hockey back when I was a kid in the 80's and early 90's before they moved every team for the sake of cash (although some moves worked, Qubec to Denver for example) and then in the mid-nineties it became the "hot thing" for whatever reason. I was living in Phoenix when the coyotes were bein put together and had their first season. They were IT!! Two years later nobody hardly cared.

So no they didn't turn it into Nascar, but like I said, they tried. I don't know, it's never really felt the same to me. Kinda like when you find out the pretty girl you've had a crush on since the second grade got felt up by some grease ball. :shrug:

PS Good points about the mullets and beer.:thumbup:


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7898251 - 01/18/08 05:01 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

I think we have better talent due to the moving around... you have cities where people can pay more for the tickets and keep steady revenue for the clubs hosting these teams now. It sounds stupud yea, but that turns into higher salaries for the players which entices the best players in the world to come play here which makes for more exciting hockey.

Just look what "the deal" (the trade of gretzky to LA) did for California... California went from not giving a shit about hockey to having 3 teams in the state just a few years later.... live action hockey is available to more and more americans

... and less to the canadians... they don't deserve hockey anyway, not until they can make a descent beer.


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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7898920 - 01/18/08 07:51 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

That theory sucks.

The best players have always come to the NHL, name five great ice hockey players that didn't play in it.

Expansion has diluted the talent pool and shittier plays are now in the league, and I think they could cut it down to at least 20 teams.

In phoenix they give away two for one coyotes tickets on coke cases.


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InvisibleZiggen
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7899136 - 01/18/08 08:46 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Noetical said:
The best players have always come to the NHL, name five great ice hockey players that didn't play in it.




How about like every CCCP player before they started smuggling guys like Sergei Federov in in the early 90s. Admittedly, that was more political than simply a matter of those guys not wanting to play in the NHL, so I don't really know what my point is, other than simply to be contrarian.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7899399 - 01/18/08 09:45 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Noetical said:

Expansion has diluted the talent pool and shittier plays are now in the league, and I think they could cut it down to at least 20 teams.




Bullshit. There are plenty of great players now. Selane, Crosby, Ovechkin, Lecav, Iginla, Alfredson... helll look at Gonchar.. he's got stats like a center and he's DEFENSE!

The lineup of either Colorada or Detroit from just a few years ago rivalled that of any team's heyday


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7899859 - 01/18/08 11:48 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

I agree. Expansion in all of the sports has made the product weaker. Also allows lesser players to make it who never would have otherwise. Can anyone say Tampa Bay Devil Rays??


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7900245 - 01/19/08 02:40 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

There will always be stars, I never denied that.

I said the talent pool was diluted meaning there are a whole swack of shitty players who shouldn't be there but are because of numbers.



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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Ziggen]
    #7900255 - 01/19/08 02:42 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

brutal example totally taking the point out of context

and you still didn't even list five


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7900256 - 01/19/08 02:43 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Gordie Howe? Cakeface?


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7900276 - 01/19/08 02:48 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Gordie is the best candidate for intergalactic space heroics...


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: Noetical]
    #7900286 - 01/19/08 02:50 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

I vote Cakeface.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7900770 - 01/19/08 08:34 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

I just think the whole 'nascarisation" idea is crap. If people are pissed that harfdord, Quebec and other teams moved ... don't blame the NHL commission... blame the fans in these areas that couldn't get their shit together to muster up enough support and money to keep their organization going. If you want a team that can avoid bankruptcy and bring world class players, you're going to need to generate enough money to have world class players...

Just look at Ottowa... they put a call out the other year when they had the higheset payroll in the NHL.... to all their fans that they needed to sell out game after game and the fans responded. They bought tickets in droves.

According to wiki

Quote:

The primary factors in the Whalers' departure from Hartford were market size and the lack of a modern playing facility. The Hartford Civic Center was small but adequate, and famously mocked for being attached to a shopping mall. As teams in the NHL began moving into larger, corporate-sponsored stadiums with luxury suites and other high-end amenities, it became increasingly apparent that a team playing in an aging municipal facility with limited revenue streams could not compete.

In 1994, Compuware founder Peter Karmanos purchased the Whalers. Karmanos pledged to keep the Whalers in Hartford for four years. Frustrated with lackluster attendance and corporate support, he announced in 1996 that if the Whalers were unable to sell at least 11,000 season tickets for the 1996-97 season, he would likely move the team.






Not only could Harford not even get enough fans in the stadium but it wasn't the NHL, but the owner that decided to move them. There's no "Nascarization" conspiracy being plotted by the central NHL powers.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The greatest hockey player ever? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7900775 - 01/19/08 08:37 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OneLessForeskin said:
Gordie Howe? Cakeface?




Gordie may hve been the best hockey player in his era, but he never put up numbers anywhere near Wayne or Mario.


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