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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
More fun with Zero
    #7883642 - 01/15/08 02:18 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

It seems that zero is not a real number, because the word "zero" has no referent.

"1", "2", "pie", "square root of two" and "-.026" - Each of these refers to one of a class of metaphysical objects whose members include all and only those quantities on a continuum between nothing and infinity (negative numbers are positive quantities with negative direction). Like infinity, zero marks one end of the conceivable quantity spectrum.

Should the book ends be called books? Or are zero and infinity limits of the set, and not to be included in it?

Mathematicians say that zero is a real number, but infinity is not. What is their reasoning for this?


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7883673 - 01/15/08 02:26 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

You should review the number line.


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OfflineShroomieGirl
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Registered: 05/29/07
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Re: More fun with Zero [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7883702 - 01/15/08 02:31 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I always thought about stuff like this sitting in all those calc classes... In one way, yes, zero is a number. But if its being used as a limit on things (like if youre looking at it from 0->inf), then it doesnt really exist... you cant ever get there, but you can get infinitely close to it.
However, if you think about it as all numbers exist between negative infinity and infinity, then zero would be another number just like -9 or 5 or 2.
But saying it the way you do, like -9 is just 9 going the other direction, you can say 0-inf are the only real numbers, and since 0 doesnt have a negative it may not be real, but it is defined. Infinity is undefined.

Therefore Ill say it's real since its definable, but Ill also say you could argue the other way just as easily and Id probably agree with you as well.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: ShroomieGirl]
    #7883735 - 01/15/08 02:37 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Nice post! I used to think about this sometimes, whether 0 was a real number or an imaginary number.

Quote:

Therefore Ill say it's real since its definable, but Ill also say you could argue the other way just as easily and Id probably agree with you as well.




I agree.


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InvisibleSell Your Soul
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 40,819
Loc: Over there
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7883739 - 01/15/08 02:39 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

It's all of matter of definition.
Historically, zero has meant the lack of any quantity.
If you're referring to numbers as being points on a number line,
then yes - zero is a number.


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: ShroomieGirl]
    #7883814 - 01/15/08 02:53 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

it's real since its definable





The word "zero" is definable, and so has meaning or semantic weight, but , by definition, it refers to nothing, and therefore lacks a referent.

One could say certainly say that 0 refers a point on a number line, or the origin in a Cartesian coordinate system, but a continuum from negative infinity to positive infinity is really just two continuums butted up against each other, something akin to a ball falling toward the floor and bouncing back in the opposite direction. The ball's, acceleration changes signs from positive to negative but its motion is never less than no motion.


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OfflineShroomieGirl
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Re: More fun with Zero [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7884011 - 01/15/08 03:29 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I totally understand that, and do agree.

Also, when you bounce a ball, it never actually touches the ground... it just gets infinitely close. Same with everything else in the world (I would explain, but its been a few years since physics, and I dont want to say something stupid in the explaination... BUT it does make sense when explained, and it is true). Therefore, youre also right... 0 cannot be reached whatsoever.

Im not entirely sure, but i think the ball does stop for an instant tho... when it gets compressed right before it bounces back... all the energy is converted into kenetic energy as it compresses, and its spit back out again when it bounces back.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7884095 - 01/15/08 03:43 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

all zeros are not created equall, just as there are an infinite infinities


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OfflineLove Cap
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Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7884251 - 01/15/08 04:06 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Wait, so how exactly does that work? When you bounce a ball, doesn't it have to touch the ground to bounce?


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OfflineShroomieGirl
What are these god damn animals
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Re: More fun with Zero [Re: Love Cap]
    #7884324 - 01/15/08 04:19 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

it does... its down at a molecular lvl where the charges or something repel the other object away from it, so they never touch. If they did touch, theyd fuse together.


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: More fun with Zero [Re: ShroomieGirl]
    #7884756 - 01/15/08 05:39 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

shroomiegirl, that bong in your picture looks like my bong that my boyfriend just broke... :frown: it was the best bong i've ever owned!


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OfflineShroomieGirl
What are these god damn animals
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Registered: 05/29/07
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Re: More fun with Zero [Re: Love Cap]
    #7884838 - 01/15/08 05:57 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

aww thats so sad!!

i gotta put my other one up there... its the best one ever. Its my not baby baby.

gimme a lil


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OfflineLove Cap
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Registered: 09/16/07
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Re: More fun with Zero [Re: ShroomieGirl]
    #7884989 - 01/15/08 06:28 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

is it a zong? thats what mine was. anyway, sorry for going off topic guys!

so i guess that's why different material don't bounce? do they not charge enough at the molecular level or something?


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OfflineShroomieGirl
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Re: More fun with Zero [Re: Love Cap]
    #7885159 - 01/15/08 06:59 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

no, neither is
the small one was just an impulse buy last time i was at the smokeshop w my friends, and the biggun is the 3ft vertical 3-chambered guy w a place for ice.


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:bouncysmoke:

I'm ok, really.


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OfflineLove Cap
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Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: ShroomieGirl]
    #7885182 - 01/15/08 07:02 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

fuck yes. i guess it's just the paint at the bottom in the picture that reminds me of my past loved one... :/


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OfflineShroomieGirl
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Re: More fun with Zero [Re: Love Cap]
    #7885193 - 01/15/08 07:05 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

i have a pic of the smaller one (the one thats in my avatar) in my photo gallery... ive seen em around before, so i woudnt be suprised if its just like yours was


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OfflineTheCow
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Registered: 10/28/02
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Re: More fun with Zero [Re: Love Cap]
    #7885232 - 01/15/08 07:10 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

ha, i used to really like the zong company, twas my first bong


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7886396 - 01/15/08 10:31 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Zero represents an empty set.


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7886413 - 01/15/08 10:35 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

But what exactly is an empty set?

Mathematicians have hypostasized nothing by drawing brackets around it.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: More fun with Zero [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7886486 - 01/15/08 10:46 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

But what exactly is an empty set?




A set with nothing in it... like a bookshelf without any books on it.

Zero as an empty set I can understand. Zero as a number, I cannot fathom.


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