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BlackPeace
Self proclaimed CEO



Registered: 11/18/07
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50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer
#7882627 - 01/15/08 10:38 AM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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Hi, i've heard several post talking about contamination with 50/50 casing. Some people direcly use Verm as a casing to fell more safe in front of contaminant. I'm just wondering, would it be a good thing if I put Verm on the top of a 50/50 casing ?
In order : Grain culture + 50/50 casing + little Verm layer on top.
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shroober
Myco Junkie


Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 879
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: BlackPeace]
#7882650 - 01/15/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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Do you mean a 50/50 of verm and peat? If so theres not much point of putting more verm on top, thats what the 50/50 is for.
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im_on_a_boat
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: BlackPeace]
#7882652 - 01/15/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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like.. a dry verm layer on top of the casing?
i dont see why not.. it would probably be extra protection from contams.. as long as you get a nice even layer..
the thing is it wouldn't stay dry for long because you're supposed to mist your casings and it would just become part of the casing..
to protect against contams in casing layers, pc/sterilize your casing mix.
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HappyTripping
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: im_on_a_boat]
#7883062 - 01/15/08 11:56 AM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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Another thing: you can see quite easily how wet the casing layer is using peat. A layer of vermiculite on top of the 50/50 would make it more difficult to determine when it needs to be misted.
-------------------- (Everything written here is the work or genesis of my best buddy's girlfriend's dog's-friend's cat's owner. If it has been written in the first person, the reason has been for clarity.)
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BlackPeace
Self proclaimed CEO



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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: HappyTripping]
#7883192 - 01/15/08 12:22 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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Thanks guys, but I just want to make a "noob proof" layer to prevent future contamination. I guess the little top layer of verm would act like an additionnal protection. But as I think about it, the 50/50 (verm and peat) is in itself a protection where contaminents can't grow.
How could i make a Noob Proof casing layer which would be as productive as 50/50!?
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im_on_a_boat
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: BlackPeace]
#7883204 - 01/15/08 12:25 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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only thing is.. is that contaminants can grow in your 50/50 layer.. and do..
50/50 is pretty much as noob proof as you're going to get.. aside from something like straight verm.
i just picked up some jiffy mix.. gonna give that a shot. also miracle grow moisture control i saw yesterday at walmart.
make sure that you sterilize it and it'll be pretty noob proof..
there's no 100% certainty though in this game.
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BlackPeace
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: im_on_a_boat]
#7883250 - 01/15/08 12:34 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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Is there a big differance between 50/50 and Only Verm on final result. Because if its only a couple of gram lost or smaller shroom, i dont really care since i'm not selling. I just want to make sure that contamination risk is reduced.
And fact : I will pasturise my 50/50 if i use it, but if verm is really less risky and it does not reduce the final result too much... i would prefere verm.
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tahoe
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: BlackPeace]
#7883288 - 01/15/08 12:39 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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i wouldnt do it. Cobweb loves plain vermiculite
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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BlackPeace
Self proclaimed CEO



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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: tahoe]
#7883302 - 01/15/08 12:45 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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So, if I make a 50/50 casing layer. I'd pasterize it. And after a little while the mycelium colonize it succesfully... I will be good for at leat 2-3 flushes without too much trouble?
What's about using Lime and OysterShell, does it really help againts contaminent?
Thanks guys
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tahoe
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: BlackPeace]
#7883322 - 01/15/08 12:49 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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should be fine. You should also read more. 5 post? You should start with the pf tek or mmgg and follow it exactly. Once you learn how to grow mushrooms then you can start experimenting
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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Mephisto616
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: tahoe]
#7883326 - 01/15/08 12:50 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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I've read somewhere that a SMALL amount of BRF sprinkled on top as a food source. I don't know the exact amount of BRF or if there's any truth to it. But if your in the mood to experiment. let me know if you notice results.
-------------------- KNOW YOUR SOURCE, KNOW YOUR SUBSTANCE, KNOW YOUR LIMIT ALL MUSHROOMS ARE EDIBLE, BUT SOME ONLY ONCE.
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BlackPeace
Self proclaimed CEO



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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: tahoe]
#7883342 - 01/15/08 12:53 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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Well, i did some pf tek cakes. I Read a lot on shroom, but only old books. I just wanted to take a look at today's info on casing layer. I read a lot on that forum and at the guide. But i like to hear what you guys have to say about it!
Thanks for your help, and remember : I don't talk much, i listen as much as i can... that's why i have only 5 post lol!
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BlackPeace
Self proclaimed CEO



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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: Mephisto616]
#7883359 - 01/15/08 12:58 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mephisto616 said: I've read somewhere that a SMALL amount of BRF sprinkled on top as a food source. I don't know the exact amount of BRF or if there's any truth to it. But if your in the mood to experiment. let me know if you notice results.
Sounds interesting. But i guess it would be a good idea to add it after the mycelium has reach the top of the casing layer. Maybe the mycelium eat that BRF and it keep it healthy on 3-4 flushes. But, humidity and contaminent would love that BRF layer right on top!
Il would be cool to have a try
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: Mephisto616]
#7883367 - 01/15/08 01:01 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mephisto616 said: I've read somewhere that a SMALL amount of BRF sprinkled on top as a food source. I don't know the exact amount of BRF or if there's any truth to it. But if your in the mood to experiment. let me know if you notice results.
one of the worst ideas to date. I will let you guys figure out why
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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HappyTripping
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: tahoe]
#7884080 - 01/15/08 03:40 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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No, tell us why, or you'll just invite further misinformation. If you don't want to back up your statements, don't be so quick to the draw to make them.
-------------------- (Everything written here is the work or genesis of my best buddy's girlfriend's dog's-friend's cat's owner. If it has been written in the first person, the reason has been for clarity.)
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: HappyTripping]
#7884104 - 01/15/08 03:44 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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overlay would be my guess.
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tahoe
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: HappyTripping]
#7884409 - 01/15/08 04:38 PM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
HappyTripping said: No, tell us why, or you'll just invite further misinformation. If you don't want to back up your statements, don't be so quick to the draw to make them.
do not even attempt to match wits with me. its been hours and still no one else has said why adding brf to a casing layer would be a bad idea
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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Mephisto616
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: tahoe]
#7887560 - 01/16/08 08:42 AM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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I didn't promote the idea. I threw it out there as a "I heard of this, might wanna try and let us know" so any future bashing on this idea, I'm not taking the heat lol
-------------------- KNOW YOUR SOURCE, KNOW YOUR SUBSTANCE, KNOW YOUR LIMIT ALL MUSHROOMS ARE EDIBLE, BUT SOME ONLY ONCE.
Edited by Mephisto616 (01/16/08 08:42 AM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: Mephisto616]
#7887572 - 01/16/08 08:48 AM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Never add BRF to a casing layer. It will feed the mold spores that are naturally going to land on the surface, allowing them to grow and ruin your project.
The time to worry about sterile procedure is during your spawn run in jars. Casing layers that have been properly pasteurized will not contaminate for at least three to four weeks. If contamination shows up in a properly made 50/50 casing prior to that, it's because your spawn was contaminated.
Experimenting is great, but for your first few grows, I'd suggest following the advice of those who have already learned the hard way to follow the established teks to the letter. Once you have a handle on the life cycle of the fungi, experiment away to your hearts content. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Mephisto616
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7887580 - 01/16/08 08:54 AM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Thanks RR, I was actually going to do it. I never thought of contam still being a prob, I assumed the fruiting stage wouldn't have a problem with contam, it would kill it instantly, now I know to continue to be as clean as possible even after casing
-------------------- KNOW YOUR SOURCE, KNOW YOUR SUBSTANCE, KNOW YOUR LIMIT ALL MUSHROOMS ARE EDIBLE, BUT SOME ONLY ONCE.
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DoctorRobert
Are YouExperienced?



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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: BlackPeace]
#7887662 - 01/16/08 09:35 AM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
BlackPeace said:
What's about using Lime and Oyster Shell, does it really help against contaminants?
Thanks guys
Trich loves acidic materials, and peat is very acidic, by buffering the pH of the peat with oyster flour (5-10% by volume of peat), or hydrated lime, (about a level tablespoon for each quart of peat in the casing material), you are making the casing layer less hospitable to contams, and therefore prolonging the life of your cased substrate.
Always pasteurize casing materials, always, don't skip this step, and do it right. Get an accurate oven therm that you can put into the middle of a jar, and maintain 150-160 degrees for at least an hour, NEVER allowing the internal temp of your casing materials to exceed 169, or to fall below 140 for that entire hour, some do two hours.
Trich will start to die around 150 degrees, some say more, some say less, but around 170 degrees you will start to kill off the beneficial bacteria contained in the peat, which is very bad, since that is one of the best things about peat, it's beneficial bacteria, which support primordia growth.
Shoot for a casing layer pH of 8, but 7.5 is considered optimal. Starting at 8 gives you a little buffer, since the pH will drop with time. If you use hydrated lime be careful, don't use too much, and mix it into the peat dry before you hydrate the peat. HyLime goes to work fast, and can burn myc if used carelessly.
Oyster flour is less caustic, but it takes longer to work, so if you use oyster flour, let the hydrated mix sit for a few hours before you test the pH.
Some report good results using 5% HyLime, 10% Gypsum, and 5% Oyster flour, by volume of the amount of peat in the casing layer.
It's good practice to wear a breathing mask/filter while working with any of these materials, especially when they are dry. While they are not harmful to humans per say, you also do not want them in your lungs.
This applies to perlite, verm, peat, lime, oyster, gypsum etc..
Any dusty, fine particle materials need to be used with caution.
-------------------- If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach a man to cultivate mushrooms, you feed his mind for a lifetime. www.groworganic.com www.hydroponics.net/i/200002 www.bulbs.com/Compact_Fluorescent_Screw--in/Daylight_White-/results.aspx
Edited by DoctorRobert (01/21/08 03:24 PM)
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BlackPeace
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: DoctorRobert]
#7896586 - 01/18/08 09:05 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Thanks everybody. I will go for a classic 50/50 without a top verm casing layer.
see ya
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atomicblue
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Re: 50/50 Casing. Advantage of adding a Verm top layer [Re: Mephisto616]
#7900207 - 01/19/08 02:30 AM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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Great advic!
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