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elbisivni

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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"Medical Googlers"
#7881897 - 01/15/08 06:45 AM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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A couple interesting bits I came across this morning.. -----
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Can a patient ever show up at the doctor’s office with too much information?
A doctor’s essay about medical “Googlers” — patients who research their symptoms, illness and doctors on the Web before seeking treatment — suggests they can. The report, which appeared in Time magazine, was written by Dr. Scott Haig, an assistant clinical professor of orthopedic surgery at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons. He begins with a description of a patient he calls Susan, who seems to be clicking on a keyboard as she speaks to him on the phone. “I knew she was Googling me,'’ he writes.
Dr. Haig’s disdain for her information-seeking ways becomes quickly evident. He describes the woman’s child, whom she brings to the office, as “a little monster'’ and notes that the woman soon “launched into me with a barrage of excruciatingly well-informed questions.'’ Every doctor knows patients like this, he writes, calling them “brainsuckers.'’
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Susan had chosen me because she had researched my education, read a paper I had written, determined my university affiliation and knew where I lived. It was a little too much — as if she knew how stinky and snorey I was last Sunday morning. Yes, she was simply researching important aspects of her own health care. Yes, who your surgeon is certainly affects what your surgeon does. But I was unnerved by how she brandished her information, too personal and just too rude on our first meeting.
The problem, Dr. Haig notes, is that patients can have too much information and often don’t have the expertise to make sense of it. “There’s so much information (as well as misinformation) in medicine — and, yes, a lot of it can be Googled — that one major responsibility of an expert is to know what to ignore,'’ Dr. Haig writes.
Dr. Haig’s essay, however, has riled patient advocates, who believe patients need to arm themselves with information and take charge of their own medical care. Mary Shomon, who runs a popular thyroid disease blog on About.com, recently highlighted the essay on her site, generating angry responses from readers. Ms. Shomon said she thinks many physicians like Dr. Haig are threatened by patients who use Google and other Internet resources to research their own health questions.
“By condemning Googlers, he made it clear that he’s threatened by empowered, educated and assertive patients who do their own research,'’ said Ms. Shomon. “He can’t handle a patient who talks and doesn’t just listen. Good patients…are seen and not heard, right?'’
Dr. Haig concludes his essay by confessing that he decided not to treat the woman, whom he described as “the queen of all Googlers.'’
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I couldn’t even get a word in edgewise. So, I cut her off. I punted. I told her there was nothing I could do differently than her last three orthopedists, but I could refer her to another who might be able to help.
- http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/a-doctors-disdain-for-medical-googlers/
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It’s time for a second opinion about medical Googlers.
As readers of the Well blog will recall, one of the liveliest discussions to take place here centered around a doctor’s disdain for medical Googlers. New York orthopedist Dr. Scott Haig wrote an essay in Time magazine complaining about a class of patients he called “brainsuckers'’ — those patients who research their symptoms, illness and doctors on the Web before seeking treatment.
Now another doctor has weighed in on the debate. Dr. Rahul K. Parikh, a San Francisco pediatrician, has written his own essay for Salon.com and notes that physicians like Dr. Haig who reject the Googlers do so at their peril.
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“The Internet is a disruptive innovation that has overturned the status quo. It has leveled the playing field between expert and novice — in this case, doctor and patient. While some doctors … may find that challenge threatening to their status as an expert, the Web is now providing the kind of information doctors need to be aware of if we want to continue to be good at our job, and the kind of trends that can help patients be smarter and healthier.”
Dr. Parikh notes that Dr. Haig’s original article reflects the angst of many doctors about the Internet. He cites a 2001 study of doctors that showed barely half of them encouraged their patients to go online, and 80 percent actually warned them against doing so. But it’s simply bad business to force patients to venture onto the Internet alone, he says.
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“When patients do venture online themselves, they can sink into a swamp of outdated medical studies, confront a lot of misinformation, and risk creating a rift in the doctor-patient relationship.”
Dr. Parikh says it is a lesson pediatricians have already learned. He notes that doctors weren’t paying attention in the late ’90s, when patients were just beginning to go online en masse and theories about vaccines and autism were first circulating.
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“We weren’t paying much attention until parents started to refuse vaccines. When we looked, we realized that many parents were exposed to story after story on autism Web sites and in chat rooms about the dangers of vaccines. That echo chamber of opinion became a reality despite our best efforts to prove otherwise…. Would things have been different if we had engaged our patients from the get-go by providing them with alternative Web sites, scrutinizing and rebutting anti-vaccine “science,” or posting studies demonstrating vaccine safety in the public domain? I would answer, emphatically, yes.”
Instead of rejecting medical Googlers, doctors would be well advised to guide them to reputable sites from respected medical institutions like the Mayo Clinic or other sites with which they are familiar.
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“Doctors need to know about them so that along with a prescription for a medication or lab test, they can give patients a prescription for information that informs, empowers and helps patients be smarter and healthier.'’
Dr. Haig hasn’t returned e-mails seeking comment.
For the full essay in Salon, click here. For links to Dr. Haig’s original essay, as well as the lively discussion it generated on the Well blog, click here.
- http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/medical-googlers-part-two/
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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Cubie
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Re: "Medical Googlers" [Re: elbisivni]
#7881951 - 01/15/08 07:14 AM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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They don't want you to have the information çuz a bunch of what they make is in finding out what's wrong. and they don't want you to know how stupid they really are.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: "Medical Googlers" [Re: Cubie]
#7882003 - 01/15/08 07:31 AM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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I agree with Dr. Haig. Google may allow access to all sorts of information, but interpreting and synthesizing that information is far more important. I would imagine patients becoming extremely stubborn, and unwilling to heed the advice of a physician simply because "they read something different on google".
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Cubie
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Re: "Medical Googlers" [Re: badchad]
#7882106 - 01/15/08 08:07 AM (16 years, 17 days ago) |
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In a lot of cases yes.
But you can't deny there are a lot of dumbfuck docs out there
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ApJunkie
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Re: "Medical Googlers" [Re: Cubie]
#7888642 - 01/16/08 03:24 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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I can deny that.
They may not give you the treatment options you would like (aka, abusable drugs), but simply the fact that they completed medical school and earned their MD more than qualifies them as "Smart"
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elbisivni

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: "Medical Googlers" [Re: ApJunkie]
#7889073 - 01/16/08 04:50 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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I can deny that.
There are hordes of med-school students riding their daddy's dollar who are undoubtedly skill at studying books and taking tests but who are also inadequate when it comes to things like actual practice and common sense.
One of my family's doctors growing up was a complete fuck up who, among other things, had repeatedly overlooked and denied a condition that nearly took my mother's life.
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I'm in the middle of this argument. People should be prompted to research these things themselves, and the doctors who might be treating them. At the same time, people can find inaccurate information if they don't know how to search correctly.
It is ridiculous, however, that a doctor would feel threatened by a patients expansive knowledge on any given condition. That suggests to me that the doctor has been slacking in his field of expertise and is unwilling to admit that he must reference a library of medical books.
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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Jadian
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Re: "Medical Googlers" [Re: elbisivni]
#7889173 - 01/16/08 05:11 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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If people don't know the difference between doing real research and typing something into google I sure as hell wouldn't want to deal with them acting like they know everything either.
-------------------- LNC's official Alaskan stoner
 
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LiquidSmoke
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Re: "Medical Googlers" [Re: elbisivni]
#7918515 - 01/23/08 02:11 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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elbisivni said: I can deny that.
There are hordes of med-school students riding their daddy's dollar who are undoubtedly skill at studying books and taking tests but who are also inadequate when it comes to things like actual practice and common sense.
One of my family's doctors growing up was a complete fuck up who, among other things, had repeatedly overlooked and denied a condition that nearly took my mother's life.
That's why malpractice exists.
I don't really condone malpractice lawyers, but i understand their purpose and appreciate what they do to keep people in check.
I've seen both sides of the coin. Doctors who have to move out their practices because malpractice insurance prices are high and jackass patients basically try to find the stupidest reasons to squeeze their physicians for money.
And i've seen stupid ass doctors whose patients have suffered the consequences of incompetency. One of my close friends lost his hearing due to a simple misperscription.
I'll be the first to admit that there's definitely stupid doctors out there who should never have gotten an MD. But like with any other profession in the world, you're going to find bad apples and short comings. You can't just expect some sort of idealistic magic land where everyone who goes into a public service expertise is going to be competent.
But if there's one profession where they try to filter out the idiots as much as possible, it's physicians.
Go ahead and try to name me another common profession that undergoes as much thorough, standardized training, and i'll be surprised.
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I'm in the middle of this argument. People should be prompted to research these things themselves, and the doctors who might be treating them. At the same time, people can find inaccurate information if they don't know how to search correctly.
It is ridiculous, however, that a doctor would feel threatened by a patients expansive knowledge on any given condition. That suggests to me that the doctor has been slacking in his field of expertise and is unwilling to admit that he must reference a library of medical books.
A great doctor, and the kind that does attract patients, is the one who takes the time and encourages the education of their patient.
Public knowledge and education in medicine is incredibly crucial to the overall wellbeing of the population. When people are aware of their health issues, they can better take care of themselves.
I think it's sort of wrong, the notion that preventative medicine will substantially decrease the demand for medical care. Illness and death are inevitable, and the demand will always be there. Even with the advancement in medicine over the past century, the demand and services carried out in medicine are at an all time high and will continue to be so, as long as the human population continues to grow.
But again i think it's good to look at the other side of the story, which is simply that, well, there are alot of uneducated people out there, even those that assume that their college degree is the end-all necessity of human knowledge.
And people believe what they want to believe, many times patients come in insisting they have a certain condition, demand certain drugs, based completely on what they read, without even undergoing a basic physical exam.
To a doctor who truely cares about the well-being of their patients (surprisingly, there are quite a few), there's nothing better than a patient who takes initiative for their own health.
-------------------- "Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers. Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts. Who smokes tha blunts? We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back
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