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nightbringer
shaman in training



Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 270
Last seen: 9 years, 29 days
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: Dr.Myco87]
#11238544 - 10/13/09 10:08 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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ok, I don't know if this has come up, but I am trying to get my head around why most people do the basifying before acidifying with mescaline: what is the natural pH of mescaline?
Because I was reading that the natual pH of DMT is around 8.68, so that is why you do the lye/solvent extraction second... so is it the opposite with mescaline, where you have a naturally more acidic alkaloid?
-------------------- OM MANI PADME HUM Buddha of great compassion, hold me fast in your compassion. From time without beginning, beings have wandered in Samsara, undergoing unendurable suffering. They have no other protector than you. Please bless them that they may achieve the omniscient state of buddhahood. With the power of evil karma gathered from beginningless time, sentient beings, through the force of anger, are born as hell beings and experience the suffering of heat and cold. May they all be born in your presence.
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UberDeepName
Zang!



Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 748
Loc: do not write in this spac...
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: nightbringer]
#11239448 - 10/13/09 01:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
nightbringer said: OK, I don't know if this has come up, but I am trying to get my head around why most people do the basifying before acidifying with mescaline: what is the natural pH of mescaline?
Because I was reading that the natual pH of DMT is around 8.68, so that is why you do the lye/solvent extraction second... so is it the opposite with mescaline, where you have a naturally more acidic alkaloid?
To breakdown the cells of the cactus therefore releasing the mescaline into solution. However, this converts it into it's freebase form which is an oil.
The salting step converts the mescaline back into it's salt form. The salt you end up with is determined by the acid you choose to use. Sulfuric, Hydrochloric, Citric.. etc...
Yeah, something like that.
-------------------- "Call on God, but row away from the rocks"- Hunter S. Thompson
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: UberDeepName]
#11239575 - 10/13/09 01:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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where does one get citrate acid and if you did have it how much HCL would you use to do this same exact extraction?
--------------------
  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: Dr.Myco87]
#11239598 - 10/13/09 01:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr.Myco87 said:
Quote:
ShroomDoom said:
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Dr.Myco87 said: Well I just took the water out of the freezer after it was frozen and thawed it while in front of me, and no precipitation whatsoever. I don't get it. I guess I'll pull the Xylene in the morning and do another acid wash and see what I get with that one but I had the cactus in the basified water for 36 hours and then put the Xylene in for 12 while mixing a bunch. I know it mixed well because my Xylene is incredibly yellow, way more yellow than in the tek pics, I don't know what I did wrong, I can do the DMT extraction in my sleep and now this doesn't seem to be working. Quite weird, maybe the cactus is shitty.
welcome to the world of citric acid. for some reason a lot of people cant get it to precipitate the first time.
come to the acetate side of the force.
http://www.dmt-nexus.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=4002
I would but 2 problems, 1. can I use Sodium Hydroxide to replace the Calcium Hydroxide and 2.) I don't have any D-Limonene, where would one find this stuff?
Why would you still want to use naoh when pickling lime is so much safer, and so much easier to get? It's by the jars at the grocery store.
And here is where you find d limonene.
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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DNBplus
true stoner


Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 982
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: thedudenj]
#11240452 - 10/13/09 04:02 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
thedudenj said: where does one get citrate acid and if you did have it how much HCL would you use to do this same exact extraction?
Go to an Herb shop, Like Herbal Planet(not GNC) and tell them you want to buy an ounce of citric acid.They sell some that comes in a plastic bottle,do not get that,ask for the stuff that they have to weigh out in front of you,it is usually found on the back wall with all the other powders,and vitamins that in glass jars that you buy by the once.
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DNBplus
true stoner


Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 982
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: DNBplus]
#11240464 - 10/13/09 04:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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and when it comes to HCL,I add a few drops to a cup of water.I try to keep the PH level between 2-3.
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psychedelia56
Stranger


Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 571
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: Dr.Myco87]
#11252737 - 10/15/09 12:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr.Myco87 said:
Quote:
ShroomDoom said:
Quote:
Dr.Myco87 said: Well I just took the water out of the freezer after it was frozen and thawed it while in front of me, and no precipitation whatsoever. I don't get it. I guess I'll pull the Xylene in the morning and do another acid wash and see what I get with that one but I had the cactus in the basified water for 36 hours and then put the Xylene in for 12 while mixing a bunch. I know it mixed well because my Xylene is incredibly yellow, way more yellow than in the tek pics, I don't know what I did wrong, I can do the DMT extraction in my sleep and now this doesn't seem to be working. Quite weird, maybe the cactus is shitty.
welcome to the world of citric acid. for some reason a lot of people cant get it to precipitate the first time.
come to the acetate side of the force.
http://www.dmt-nexus.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=4002
I would but 2 problems, 1. can I use Sodium Hydroxide to replace the Calcium Hydroxide and 2.) I don't have any D-Limonene, where would one find this stuff?
I want to know as well, can you substitute Calcium Hydroxide with Sodium Hydroxide? I have Lye sitting around and no idea if I can obtain calcium hydroxide locally. D-Limonene I will obviously have to look for on the internet.
-------------------- [quote]Shad0w said: A Bong is like the "fukit" of getting high...... You are smoking out of a bong for one reason. And one reason only. To get super high out of your mind.[/quote]
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ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: psychedelia56]
#11258790 - 10/16/09 09:48 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
psychedelia56 said:
Quote:
Dr.Myco87 said:
Quote:
ShroomDoom said:
Quote:
Dr.Myco87 said: Well I just took the water out of the freezer after it was frozen and thawed it while in front of me, and no precipitation whatsoever. I don't get it. I guess I'll pull the Xylene in the morning and do another acid wash and see what I get with that one but I had the cactus in the basified water for 36 hours and then put the Xylene in for 12 while mixing a bunch. I know it mixed well because my Xylene is incredibly yellow, way more yellow than in the tek pics, I don't know what I did wrong, I can do the DMT extraction in my sleep and now this doesn't seem to be working. Quite weird, maybe the cactus is shitty.
welcome to the world of citric acid. for some reason a lot of people cant get it to precipitate the first time.
come to the acetate side of the force.
http://www.dmt-nexus.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=4002
I would but 2 problems, 1. can I use Sodium Hydroxide to replace the Calcium Hydroxide and 2.) I don't have any D-Limonene, where would one find this stuff?
I want to know as well, can you substitute Calcium Hydroxide with Sodium Hydroxide? I have Lye sitting around and no idea if I can obtain calcium hydroxide locally. D-Limonene I will obviously have to look for on the internet.
Did you even try? Next time you're at the grocery store buying milk, look in the pickling/canning section (where you buy jars for mycology) for 'pickling lime.'
Mrs. wages makes a pure product for like $2.50.
It is also used as an aquarium product called kalkwasser.
It is likely that it is extremely available where you live.
I seriously don't understand why one would rather use lye, as it is extremely caustic and dangerous to handle. Even the fumes are caustic.
But no, I don't think it can be substituted in the limonene/acetate tek. The primary reason one uses CaOH is to eliminate the thick layers of mucelage that re-form when one adds water to dry cactus, secondly to freebase.
NaOH would cause a strong exothermic reaction when water is added, which could have unknown consequences on the results. Plus it is a much stronger base, so it shouldn't be used in the same quantity.
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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Dr.Myco87
Im a "Reader"


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 1,690
Loc: Land of the greedy!
Last seen: 1 year, 24 days
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Quote:
Dr.Myco87 said:
Quote:
ShroomDoom said:
Quote:
Dr.Myco87 said: Well I just took the water out of the freezer after it was frozen and thawed it while in front of me, and no precipitation whatsoever. I don't get it. I guess I'll pull the Xylene in the morning and do another acid wash and see what I get with that one but I had the cactus in the basified water for 36 hours and then put the Xylene in for 12 while mixing a bunch. I know it mixed well because my Xylene is incredibly yellow, way more yellow than in the tek pics, I don't know what I did wrong, I can do the DMT extraction in my sleep and now this doesn't seem to be working. Quite weird, maybe the cactus is shitty.
welcome to the world of citric acid. for some reason a lot of people cant get it to precipitate the first time.
come to the acetate side of the force.
http://www.dmt-nexus.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=4002
I would but 2 problems, 1. can I use Sodium Hydroxide to replace the Calcium Hydroxide and 2.) I don't have any D-Limonene, where would one find this stuff?
I want to know as well, can you substitute Calcium Hydroxide with Sodium Hydroxide? I have Lye sitting around and no idea if I can obtain calcium hydroxide locally. D-Limonene I will obviously have to look for on the internet.
Did you even try? Next time you're at the grocery store buying milk, look in the pickling/canning section (where you buy jars for mycology) for 'pickling lime.'
Mrs. wages makes a pure product for like $2.50.
It is also used as an aquarium product called kalkwasser.
It is likely that it is extremely available where you live.
I seriously don't understand why one would rather use lye, as it is extremely caustic and dangerous to handle. Even the fumes are caustic.
But no, I don't think it can be substituted in the limonene/acetate tek. The primary reason one uses CaOH is to eliminate the thick layers of mucelage that re-form when one adds water to dry cactus, secondly to freebase.
NaOH would cause a strong exothermic reaction when water is added, which could have unknown consequences on the results. Plus it is a much stronger base, so it shouldn't be used in the same quantity.
Thanks for your response. I would do that Tek but D-Limonene is too expensive to order right now as anything under 5 gal. is a waste of shipping and 5 gallons is over $125. I will go get the pickling lime though so I have it around when I can afford the D-Limonene
edit- for now I'm going to stick with the citrate tek and if I can't precipitate I'll just evap all of it, citric acid and all. Since citric acid is not toxic and you know exactly how much is in there you can weigh it all and subtract the citric acid to get the weight of Mescaline Citrate, not a big deal and the citric acid doesn't effect the trip any, but damn I would like to be able to precip a bunch of badass mesc. crystals like I do with dimitri. Maybe there needs to be more mescaline in the solution to precip., as my first extraction only had like 300mg's max in with the 30ml's of citric water, hopefully the next extraction will have at least a gram in there so i can test this theory out.
-------------------- "I don’t do drugs. I am drugs." -Salvador Dali "I’ve never had a problem with drugs. I’ve had problems with the police." -Keith Richards "Reality is a crutch for people who can’t cope with drugs." -Lily Tomlin
Edited by Dr.Myco87 (10/16/09 02:37 PM)
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ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: Dr.Myco87]
#11276670 - 10/19/09 11:31 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Once you get a whiff of d limonene and compare it to the putrid smell of xylene, cost will be the furthest thing from your mind.
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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UrdnotWrex
Newb


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 8
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: Dr.Myco87]
#12377092 - 04/12/10 09:41 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr.Myco87 said: Well I just took the water out of the freezer after it was frozen and thawed it while in front of me, and no precipitation whatsoever. I don't get it. I guess I'll pull the Xylene in the morning and do another acid wash and see what I get with that one but I had the cactus in the basified water for 36 hours and then put the Xylene in for 12 while mixing a bunch. I know it mixed well because my Xylene is incredibly yellow, way more yellow than in the tek pics, I don't know what I did wrong, I can do the DMT extraction in my sleep and now this doesn't seem to be working. Quite weird, maybe the cactus is shitty.
I'm having the exact same problem...There are probably too many variables to consider here, but I figured I'd throw this out there...I recently made my first attempt at the tek and followed the directions METICULOUSLY...After my first couple extractions I froze the water hoping to see pure mescaline crystals precipitating in the jar once it had re-thawed. To my extreme disappointment and dismay, I was left with little more than a cloudy fluid and no crystals to speak of. Do they normally take time to precipitate in the water? I'd assume that since they are not soluble they would show up right away after the water has thawed. I mixed the cactus powder with the lye/water solution, added the xylol, shook periodically over 24 hours, and then performed the extraction according to the tek. Has anyone else ever encountered any problem like this? And hopefully figured out what was wrong? I'm probably grasping at straws, but any advice rendered would be GREATLY appreciated.
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ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: UrdnotWrex]
#12379620 - 04/12/10 04:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Many seem to have a problem getting the citrate to precipitate from cold water. It might be a good idea to pool all of your citrate saltings in one container, concentrate it well, then try to precipitate.
Like I said, though, it just doesn't work for some, even the chemically-minded folks among us.
You could look into this food safe tek as well:
Mescaline Carbonate Extraction!
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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wojowut
Cacti Enthusiast

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Flagstaff, Arizona
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#12472994 - 04/28/10 05:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Will an extraction such as this work on the Saguaro Cactus? I know it does not contain mescaline, but it is a psychoactive cactus which contains other alkaloids. If it does work, before everyone rushes out and cuts a cacti, they should know its illegal to deface (cut, shoot at, hit with a baseball bat, drunkely-drive-into-with-an-atv, etc.) the Saguaro in the United States, due to the fact that it is on the Endangered Species list, and the State Tree of Arizona.
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Doctor_Dick
Forgiveness


Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 6,289
Loc: top of the tower
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: wojowut]
#12473018 - 04/28/10 05:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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this tek is oldschool...xylene and sodium hydroxide....unnecessary harsh chemicals....orange oil and fish tank supplement ftw
--------------------
 ] "This promise constitutes the heart of my Christian beliefs and my call to natural-scientific research: we will attain to knowledge of the universe through the spirit of truth, and thereby to understanding of our being one with the deepest, most comprehensive reality, God." -Albert Hofmann
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Doctor_Dick
Forgiveness


Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 6,289
Loc: top of the tower
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: Doctor_Dick]
#12473076 - 04/28/10 06:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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so easy...you can actually reuse the 300ml's limonene so you only need 300ml's really for a 100 gram extraction. you can mix the whole entire thing inside of your french press, only time u need to take out the cactus is at the end when u throw it out.
just mix cal-hydroxie and cactus powder strait in the press stir that up w/ a fork or something (careful dont scratch ur press), add water and stir that together, add your limo and mix with a knife or something for a little while. a few hours later then just press and poor, salt out, siphon mescaline salted water, pour limo back in the press, mix and repeat.
i don't even bother straining through a coffee filter...not a whole lot of solid material if you pull carefully...i don't use anything fancy to seperate the liquids, just a opaque katsup bottle with a fish tank hose on the end. works great and can be used accurately. hppe bottle wont be harmed by the chemicals.
6 pulls 2 salts each time will ensure you get all your mescy...
really can't beat it in easyness and effectiveness. nothing breaks down the cactus musilage better than calcium hydroxide (better than sodium hydroxide) making it easier for the limo to extract the mescaline.
--------------------
 ] "This promise constitutes the heart of my Christian beliefs and my call to natural-scientific research: we will attain to knowledge of the universe through the spirit of truth, and thereby to understanding of our being one with the deepest, most comprehensive reality, God." -Albert Hofmann
Edited by Doctor_Dick (04/28/10 06:25 PM)
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Gastronomicus
3-0-G



Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#12473312 - 04/28/10 06:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are actives in Saguaros?
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: Gastronomicus]
#12477063 - 04/29/10 11:50 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey, thanks for the ketchup bottle tip, Dr. Dick!
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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Doctor_Dick
Forgiveness


Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 6,289
Loc: top of the tower
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No problem. I choose it over gravy seperator, pipettes and especially over turkey basters for decanting. Sounds funny I know but works very well, and can store liquid inside so u don't need to continually suck and squirt like gotta do with pipettes and turk basters.
Sep funnels are obviously better but at this low level of chemestry who needs a sep funnel?
--------------------
 ] "This promise constitutes the heart of my Christian beliefs and my call to natural-scientific research: we will attain to knowledge of the universe through the spirit of truth, and thereby to understanding of our being one with the deepest, most comprehensive reality, God." -Albert Hofmann
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 6 months, 9 days
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate *DELETED* [Re: Doctor_Dick]
#12477757 - 04/29/10 01:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by andrewssReason for deletion: na
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Doctor_Dick
Forgiveness


Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 6,289
Loc: top of the tower
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: andrewss]
#12477921 - 04/29/10 02:25 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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used to use turkey baster. may work for sucking hcl water up but if your gonna suck up a solvent, most solvents will eat through the cheap plastic that turkey basters are made from that u can get at most stores.
ketchup bottles are made from plastic resistant to alot of solvents
--------------------
 ] "This promise constitutes the heart of my Christian beliefs and my call to natural-scientific research: we will attain to knowledge of the universe through the spirit of truth, and thereby to understanding of our being one with the deepest, most comprehensive reality, God." -Albert Hofmann
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