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travelleler
a horse-fart in a hurricane



Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3,955
Loc: yonder mountains
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: SurReality]
#9552162 - 01/05/09 04:40 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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well I tried to precipitate the crystals in the freezer but none came out of the solution. So I threw the extraction water into the evap dish and ended up with a sticky puddle that looked sort of amber colored when I scraped it up... but no crystals. Anybody got an idea what could be happening here?
--------------------

"Whales have deep thoughts"
Dreams are the fuel of the soul
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SurReality
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: travelleler]
#9552188 - 01/05/09 04:44 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
travelleler said:Anybody got an idea what could be happening here?
my guess is you fucked up
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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04281969
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: TreeMoss]
#9552205 - 01/05/09 04:46 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Mescaline freebase and citric acid together? 
What you have in your evaporation dish is probably about 75% citric acid. It should slowly become a thick sticky liquid, then dry to swirly crystals not unlike a shower door.
Here's a picture of a run using 1 teaspoon citric acid (instead of 1/2 teaspoon).

You might want to use the water again for another run. Link those acid molecules to some alkaloids. (You can always add water to it again if you need to.)
If your layers are not separating, I would say that you don't have enough NaOH. Same thing if your cactus isn't broken down enough after 24 hours to give good crystals. It won't hurt your cactus, so add a couple tablespoons at a time and shake the hell out of it. You don't want it to solidify and sit on the glass. It heats up and can can cause the glass to become brittle. So, keep shaking and rolling until it's blended.
24 hours is enough for me to wait before doing a first extraction, but I've only used the best, most potent cactus direct from Peru. You're powdering your cactus well enough, aren't you?
The first rule about making mescaline is to be patient. If your cactus needs 36-48 hours before the first run, then allow for it.
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TreeMoss
I live in a Fox Hole


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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: travelleler]
#9552204 - 01/05/09 04:46 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Did you salt it? Sounds like the base oil
-------------------- Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas. Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand. Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.
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TreeMoss
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#9552236 - 01/05/09 04:50 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
04281969 said:

That is so pretty!
-------------------- Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas. Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand. Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.
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travelleler
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#9552332 - 01/05/09 05:03 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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04281969 thanks, yeah I think it's probably a good idea to reuse the acidic water for a 2nd run--- The scale I'm using is not very accurate so it is possible that 300g of NaOH was actually much less. I now have both the 1st and 2nd pulls in the evap dish and both are drying into a clear, sticky puddle which then becomes hard like varnish.
Probably is ok to rehydrate the slurry with 30mL of H2O and re-extract the solvent... you only get crystals from a saturated solution so my conclusion is that either there isn't enough acid or alkaloid in the solution yet. So we'll try adding some more caustic soda and see if that helps-- I'm going to keep trying this until I get somewhere with it.
The cactus should be okay, comes from an online supplier and is just the outer green flesh of the Pedro-- it was powdered really well, like flour.
is it ok to add more acid? I've only been using the 1/2 teaspoon per 120ml per the earlier instructions but you showed a pic of your extract made with 1 whole teaspoon--- so is there any risk of losing alkaloids if you up the acid in the H20??
thanks again 04281969 I appreciate it-- I'll be back in a while, gotta go tumble the jug for a while
--------------------

"Whales have deep thoughts"
Dreams are the fuel of the soul
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04281969
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: travelleler]
#9552397 - 01/05/09 05:14 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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You have enough acid to link up to at least 3 grams of alkaloids, which would be 3% dry weight - what you would expect to get out of good cactus.
So, you have enough acid. You can add more and you can't lose alkaloids, but it's pointless. Also, the 2:1 link of mescaline alkaloid to citric acid precipitates much easier than a 1:1 link, so freeze precipitation might not work if you don't have the correct proportions. You can skip the crystal precipitation and dry it all. It won't hurt you. Your body actually needs citric acid. Citric acid cycle Stir it into orange juice if you want.
Also, have you sampled the cactus by making "tea"? Are you sure of its potency?
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TreeMoss
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#9552447 - 01/05/09 05:22 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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I saw that cycle but how much is in orange juice, obviously a good bit but damn......I have tasted pure citric acid and it isn't that weak...
I sure wouldn't want to eat this 2 ounce bottle I have in front of me, but if mescaline take what ya got.
-------------------- Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas. Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand. Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.
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04281969
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: TreeMoss]
#9552784 - 01/05/09 06:08 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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What you have in the evaporation dish is not straight citric acid. Don't eat straight citric acid.
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TreeMoss
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#9552798 - 01/05/09 06:10 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Any unreacted acid is.
-------------------- Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas. Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand. Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.
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04281969
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: travelleler]
#9552834 - 01/05/09 06:17 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
travelleler said: either way... I followed the recipe to the letter.
You also need to follow it to the number.
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04281969
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: TreeMoss]
#9552926 - 01/05/09 06:31 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
TreeMoss said: Any unreacted acid is.
You can use a whole teaspoon and have all of the acid bound to alkaloids with a 1:1 bond. It's still acidic because of the nature of citric acid.
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TreeMoss
I live in a Fox Hole


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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#9553026 - 01/05/09 06:42 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Well anyway, sweet fucking crystal shot.......reminds me of some LSD hallucinations I had once, the dirt/filth on the window turned all freaky crystal/snow shapes....then when I came back down just dirt again...and that wanna keep that illegal.....shit, I would never have to clean the house!
Only to a hippie does a landfill look like art, we know why the Indian was crying.....he missed his dose!
So citric acid couldn't form crystals like that if you evaporated just water dissolved citric acid?
And what was your temp like to get crystals like that, I haven't seen mescaline citrate make nice crystals like that yet.
-------------------- Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas. Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand. Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.
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travelleler
a horse-fart in a hurricane



Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3,955
Loc: yonder mountains
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#9553154 - 01/05/09 06:59 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
You also need to follow it to the number
yes I know--- I'm doing the best that I can with the resources available. I used a dietary kitchen scale to measure out ~100g cactus powder and ~300g NaOH and then added a 1/2 teaspoon of citric to the salting solution of 120mL of H2O. just like the recipe says--- if my scale was accurate enough I would have weighed the 2g of citric but....
so anyway CHECK THIS OUT: I went back to the 'lab' and my slurry was all dry in the bottom of the evap dish. I figured I could redisolve the product in a little water to create a super-saturated solution and then re-crystalize as long as any alkaloids were present. Frankly I didn't t\really think I had anything because it didn't look like much but what happened was surprising. I carefully measured (with a big syringe) 22cc of distilled and filtered H2O into a flask, microwaved it until it was almost boiling then poured that onto the sticky/dried acidic slurry in the evap dish and, began to mix it around a bit. What happened next was interesting... An almost immediate reaction with the water began to coagulate and form little white specks in the solution which I allowed to dry into what is now a sort of a off-white paste in the evap dish!! BAM!! just like magic!! was the sticky puddle actually freebase mescaline? what the heck?
EDIT: after that happened I double checked my water ph to make sure I added just h2o and it was-- so no extra chemicals were added, just hot water... so I'm left asking myself, "what just happened????"
--------------------

"Whales have deep thoughts"
Dreams are the fuel of the soul
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Gastronomicus
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: travelleler]
#9553324 - 01/05/09 07:25 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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If I'm correct you just recrystallized an impure slush of mescaline salt and aqueous solution. By adding hot solvent (water) the mescaline was separated from impurities by dissolving. Then, because the hot water is added to the cool water, the hot solvent is reduced in temperature. This resulted in precipitation of clean crystals. High levels of impurities could also have accounted for your earlier trouble with forming a precipitate.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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04281969
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: Gastronomicus]
#9556524 - 01/06/09 08:30 AM (15 years, 25 days ago) |
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That should be accurate enough. Yes, those are mescaline citrate crystals. Like Gastronomicus said, you dissolved and recrystallized.
Remove the water (with the impurities - mainly excess citric acid) from the crystals and reuse that for another run.
Let's deal with this mescaline freebase topic for a minute because our friend has confused people about that now too...
The only place you will find mescaline freebase is in the xylol. It will not go from the xylol into the water. Only the salts (which are made by adding acid) will go into your polar solvent (water).
So, unless you evaporated your xylol and skipped the addition of acid, you will not be dealing with freebase mescaline.
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travelleler
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Registered: 08/30/08
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#9557302 - 01/06/09 11:48 AM (15 years, 25 days ago) |
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No-- I didn't skip a step at all, and I'm not sure what happened.
it looked like a clear puddle of dried varnish in the dish and felt sticky to the touch. I switched my water from wal-mart .75 cent distilled h2o to reverse-osmosis uv sterilized and filtered h2o and then heated it to almost boiling and put it in the dish with the sticky stuff. I began to stir it around with my finger which was a bad idea because it burned the skin and turned it white-- didn't think citric acid was so strong... so I put on a glove and continued to stir the warm water around and observed as citrate crystals began to appear in the solution.
from this evidence I can only conclude that some contaminate in the wal-mart jug of water was messing with things... I've completed the 3rd pull with the RO water and had great results! I'd post a photo but dont have the tools to do that now.
so if this happens to you, I stropngly recommend recrytalization of the evaporated product in a small amount of warm RO or DI h2o! It works... ah hahah ah HAAAA... IIITTTT WOOOOORRRKKSS (mad scientist)
thanks for your input!
--------------------

"Whales have deep thoughts"
Dreams are the fuel of the soul
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04281969
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: travelleler]
#9558394 - 01/06/09 03:48 PM (15 years, 25 days ago) |
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I really don't think was impurities in the water.
When you do an extraction with too much citric acid, it will slowly thicken to a syrup, then slowly, slowly dry to the swirly crystal pattern like in the picture I last posted. You just didn't give it enough time for the crystals to form.
The reason you have too much citric acid in this first extraction is because your cactus hadn't yet released enough of its alkaloids into the xylene. Next time you do an extracion, give your jug 36-48 hours before you do your first run and it should be smooth sailing.
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Gastronomicus
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: 04281969]
#9558556 - 01/06/09 04:14 PM (15 years, 25 days ago) |
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No way, I got it right?
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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UberDeepName
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Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: TreeMoss]
#9558582 - 01/06/09 04:19 PM (15 years, 25 days ago) |
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No problem Traveller. Glad to help. the Original poster is the mack daddy when it comes to this. You can do a 6th pull with the water you pull away from your crystals that you get from now on. Just separate the water from the crystals after thawing your ice cubes, put it aside in a baby food jar or something... you'll get whatever you missed. There is plenty of citric acid in there to get the goodies out. I'm gonna dose my stuff Friday. I CANT WAIT!!!
-------------------- "Call on God, but row away from the rocks"- Hunter S. Thompson
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