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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Evolution of Personal Political Views
    #7869090 - 01/12/08 01:28 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

I only ask for general curiousity on my part.

I ask because I'm 25, and the last 5 year have seen a pretty big shift in my politics. This has occured while I've been in school, which is probably the reverse of what the Republican fear-mongers would have you believe happens at a public university.

I consider myself a yellow-dog Democrat, which means I would vote for a yellow dog before I voted for a Republican, as long as the dog had a (D) next to his name.

The reason for that party affiliation on my part is largely social. I cannot stand the bigotry and homophobia of the "Jesus-Freak" wing of the Republican party. I 100% believe that putting more power in the hands of these people is the most dangerous thing that could feasibly happen to our country in the near future.

But I used to be ALOT further left. I used to believe that the United States was the cause of most of the ills of the world. I used to HATE the US military and all of its members. I used to believe in the abolishment of inherited wealth and a near 100% tax on the income of the very rich.

My stance on so many things had moderated in the last 5-7 years.

I still think Republican foreign policy is an unmitigated disaster, but I dont understand how anyone can call for an immediate withdrawl from Iraq...

I still think the wealthy should be taxed more than they are currently, but I understand the healthy role the affluent play in society and the arguements for letting them keep that wealth.

I am still in favor of a vast network of government run social programs, but I understand the conservative reluctance to pour money into what seems to be a black-hole of compassionate spending.

So my basic point is this.

I'm 25, and my political idealogy has undergone a vast shift as I become more educated. Is the pattern the same for you? For our older members, when did you see your political thoughts really set into stone? 20's? 30's? 40's? It it still evolving?

Has your shift been to the left, or the right?

Did you have political positions in your youth that you would be embarrased to admit to now?


Mine is obviously still currently evolving, has shifted quite far the left, although I am still left of center. I would be embarrased to admit that for a short time in 2002 I believed that the United States was involved in 9/11. (Do Not Make This a 9/11 Thread)


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7869100 - 01/12/08 01:31 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

im 19 and views have been changing drasticly since i was about 17.
ive always been left. but now am more educated on WHY i am left. i watch politics all the time and i think every system we have is a disaster.


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Cubie]
    #7869160 - 01/12/08 01:54 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

i used to not give a shit.. then i thought ron paul might actually be able to change shit.. but no it's all about how much people want to spend on a candidate whether they are going to be elected or not..

so i dont give a shit anymore.. but i'm still gonna vote... not like one person can make a difference anyways.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7869172 - 01/12/08 01:58 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

George Bush is president because of 500 individual voters.

Don't believe the hype.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleArp
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7869179 - 01/12/08 01:59 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Psychedelics and education might have had something to do with my shift. Not sure. I used to be on the far right. Probably because of conservative relatives.

My first election (at a age of ~18), I voted for a conservative right-wing party

Second election still right-wing. A liberal party in the true sense (pro free-market) got my vote.

Third election my vote went to a pro-environmental party (left-wing)


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7869180 - 01/12/08 01:59 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

i wasn't really talking about one person like one vote make a difference.. i was more talking about one person as if Ron Paul got elected..

he doesn't really have party support from what i've seen so i dont think he could get his policies enacted/passed even if he was put into office..


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OfflineSyle
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7869496 - 01/12/08 03:41 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
George Bush is president because of 500 individual voters.

Don't believe the hype.




and the tone of your post here is assuming that Gore or Kerry would have been better. hindsight is always 20/20.

Myself, I was raised very conservative (though my family is agnostic and some are even atheist, no religious at all). After college and a few humbling trips, i would consider myself pretty square down the middle-moderate.


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7869560 - 01/12/08 04:04 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

I was raised in a partisan left-wing, christian setting.  Now my political view are right-wing and secular.  :lol:


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: DieCommie]
    #7869576 - 01/12/08 04:09 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

i'm conservative as hell when it comes to legislation.. but believe the environment comes first when it comes to policy and regulation.

essentially, i'm confused :tongue:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7871145 - 01/12/08 09:53 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

I grew up hard core liberal, but over time have leaned more towards a pragmatic libertarian bent. I still am very, very left on most social issues, have a mix of left and right beliefs regarding education, and am almost entirely right regarding the economy.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Redstorm]
    #7871155 - 01/12/08 09:55 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Pretty similar to myself, then.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7871220 - 01/12/08 10:10 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

And myself as well.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7871227 - 01/12/08 10:12 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

I grew up in a very conservative Republican atmosphere.....my views do seem to have adapted for the most part over the last three years....I am completely against the two party system that is currently the status quo here in the States.

It is my view that we currently live under a Representative Bureaucracy, rather then a Representative Democracy.

I am about one and a half years away from my BA in history.....if there is anything that I have learned from this experience, is that although somewhat more civilized this country has becomes, the personal liberties are shitted upon, politicians simply look good for the camera, and your average citizen is so far removed/excluded from the political process....all the while causing the tax payers money and derailing our country as it was intended by our Founding Fathers. I deem the Constitution one of the most significant documents in human history....to bad we have flushed it down the drain.

I hope one day we will return to the essence of such.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7871524 - 01/12/08 11:26 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

I grew up a lonely black child in a log cabin in Kentucky..

Seriously, I grew up with parents who were.. *gasp* republican activists so naturally I followed their lead initially and thought myself quite conservative. My parents had befriended an up and coming southern GOP congressional representative who later rose to power and became a US senator in a leadership position. (Don't ask for his name because I won't tell you.)

Although I disagree with our friend often politically, I cannot separate from the fact that he is a good and likable man who probably could have become president. That I find pretty cool. Whenever we are together politics never comes up.

When I was a child he had us up in Washington and we sat in the Congressional gallery and saw all the cool D.C. sights and monuments. It was a great civics lesson which imparted a lifelong reverence for our country and its institutions. I believe in this country so I am passionate about it.

The experience has taught me that even though you disagree with someone politically you can still maintain civility, even friendship if you are dealing with a rational human being on the other end. (An attitude which has been sadly lost lately in Washington and even here on this forum).

Well I maintained my conservative values until I got to college. A couple of friends there were more libertarian and left-leaning and I listened to them and sometimes fought with them. Later, sometimes years later, I realized on my own that their philosophies were mostly sound and I shifted left on social issues.

What I gained at that time was the ability to separate myself from my thoughts and observe myself as if I were a complete stranger. One's biases become clear at that point and one learns to construct "mental lenses" to compensate.

The average person is unwilling to see things from another point of view because he is secretly afraid of losing his own point of view. But I would rather lose my point of view if it was an incorrect one!!


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (01/13/08 12:44 AM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #7872578 - 01/13/08 08:20 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

SirTripAlot writes:

Quote:

...although somewhat more civilized this country has becomes, the personal liberties are shitted upon...




This is something I read a lot in this forum -- that somehow the personal liberties of Americans are decreasing over time. I have never understood why people say this, probably because I can't think of any examples of it actually occurring. But I will freely admit I may be just too uninformed to think of any myself, so --

I have asked the following question now perhaps a dozen times in this forum, and I have never had anyone answer it, but I keep asking in the hopes that someone someday will actually give me a specific example --

1-- Can you provide us three specific examples of actions you could legally take as an American citizen five years ago that you cannot legally take today?

2 -- if you can't come up with three in the five year period, how about giving us three specific examples of actions you could legally take as an American citizen ten years ago that you cannot legally take today?

3 -- if you can't come up with three in the ten year period, how about giving us three specific examples of actions you could legally take as an American citizen twenty years ago that you cannot legally take today? Still coming up empty? Okay then, try thirty years.

When I say specific, I mean specific -- just saying "Patriot Act, dude!" won't cut it.

As for the evolution of my political views, see my entry in the sticky post at the top of the forum, "About me (and you)".



Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Phred]
    #7872636 - 01/13/08 08:49 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

I'll go with the 20 year period b/c I am tired. Also, these weren't necessarily things that I could do legally then, but more-so instances of the trampling o the Constitution.

1. Affirmative action: Before this, I could be certain that a hiring or college acceptance was based on the merit of me versus another applicant and not based on some minority status. This is discrimination and is a restriction of my rights.

2. Federal funding for faith-based charities: This is just within the last 10 years. Many religious charities have begun to receive federal funding (my tax dollars), but still retain the ability to discriminate when hiring based on religion.

This is actually something I have experienced. A few years ago I applied to volunteer at a Christian homeless shelter which had been receiving federal aid. They turned me down because I marked that I wasn't Christian on my application. This is once again discrimination, coupled with a waste of my tax dollars.

3. In 2005, the Supreme Court upheld a school district policy of mandatory drug testing for all students taking part in extracurricular activities.

4. The inability of gays to get married is a clear case of the tyranny of the majority. This disgusting form of populism is nothing but legalized discrimination. Until the gov't gets out of the business of marriages, this is unconstitutional.

I'll try to think of some more after breakfast.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Redstorm]
    #7872700 - 01/13/08 09:22 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

I'm sorry, I must not have made myself clear. What part of "actions you could legally take as an American citizen X years ago that you cannot legally take today?" should I clarify?

Your example number one has nothing to do with government legislation, nor does it prevent you from applying to a university. In other words, the government has not restricted your actions in any way.

Your example number two likewise shows no legislation the government has enacted which restrict your actions. You remain as free to seek employment with a religious charity today as you were twenty years ago.

Your example number three is the closest to what I was looking for, but even then it applies to a single school district's decision -- not to official government policy for the entire country, or even the entire state in which the school district was located. Congress didn't sit down and pass a law stating that children wishing to participate in extracurricular activities must be drug tested, a single tight-assed school board took it upon itself to add that caveat to their already lengthy list of comportment requirements for students representing their school in athletic competitions and SCOTUS decided that it was not unconstitutional for that school board to have imposed that condition.

As for example number four, you must be kidding. Ten years ago there were no legal gay marriages anywhere in the US. Now there are several states which recognize them. This is not a sign of decreasing personal liberties, but of increasing personal liberties.



Phred


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Phred]
    #7872707 - 01/13/08 09:27 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

More laws are passed everyday
Anyone who knows poo about American history can say we are losing libertys.
We used to have a constutional right for chemical happyness. What happened to that?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Phred]
    #7872721 - 01/13/08 09:34 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:


Your example number one has nothing to do with government legislation, nor does it prevent you from applying to a university. In other words, the government has not restricted your actions in any way.

Your example number two likewise shows no legislation the government has enacted which restrict your actions. You remain as free to seek employment with a religious charity today as you were twenty years ago.




1. The government has upheld affirmative action in most cases, and is practiced in government hiring. It is therefore a government policy. I also don't see how I am not restricted. You must be kidding. My application is no longer based solely on my merit, and I am restricted from entrance that in a logical world (or one 20 years ago) I would have been granted.

2. This is inherently a government issue as it deals with government disbursement of funds to a private organization. Once again, I'm not sure how you can say this is not a restriction. I am being discriminated against by an organization which is receiving public funding. In any other case regarding anything but charity, this would be seen as an outrage.

The problem with your question is that it pigeon-holes his statement of the "Constitution down the toilet" and allows no reasonable answers. I'm not sure if you did it on purpose or not, but it is disingenuous.

All of the above are example of constitutional violations, regardless of whether or not they meet your question. Your question only gets to half of the issue. Constitutional issues not only involve things that we no longer can do, but outrages that are imposed upon us by the government.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Evolution of Personal Political Views [Re: Phred]
    #7872725 - 01/13/08 09:36 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

I see I am guilty of having derailed a thread by pursuing this tangent as far as I have. My bad.

I suggest those who are interested in pursuing it do so in this separate thread, "Loss of personal liberties?"

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7872747

and let this thread remain a venue for those wishing to detail the evolution of their political views.


Phred


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