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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Religion, intelligence and education
    #7868006 - 01/12/08 02:46 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

article here

Sociological studies show a direct inverse proprotional link between religiosity and intelligence/education.

The children of highly religious parents suffer diminished IQs - averaging 7 to 10 points lower compared to their non-religious counterparts in similar socio-economic groups. As you would expect from these results, multiple studies have also shown that IQ is opposed to the strength of religious belief. 39 studies since 1927 (out of 43) have found that the more educated a person is, and the higher one's intelligence, the less likely someone is to hold religious beliefs.

Discuss. Or not.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7868085 - 01/12/08 03:37 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

It is nice to see an ad hominem that is supported by research.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7869409 - 01/12/08 03:16 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Personal experience would seem to confirm this.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: Evolving]
    #7869415 - 01/12/08 03:17 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

I'd agree with this. But I'd also have to stress the difference between Religious and Spiritual.


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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7869417 - 01/12/08 03:19 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Indeed.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7869469 - 01/12/08 03:35 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
I'd agree with this. But I'd also have to stress the difference between Religious and Spiritual.




Yeah, agreed as well.


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Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7869623 - 01/12/08 04:18 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
article here

Sociological studies show a direct inverse proprotional link between religiosity and intelligence/education.

The children of highly religious parents suffer diminished IQs - averaging 7 to 10 points lower compared to their non-religious counterparts in similar socio-economic groups. As you would expect from these results, multiple studies have also shown that IQ is opposed to the strength of religious belief. 39 studies since 1927 (out of 43) have found that the more educated a person is, and the higher one's intelligence, the less likely someone is to hold religious beliefs.

Discuss. Or not.




Do you have a citation for this? I ask because the source is important for establishing the weight of a claim. If this is from the journal of Nature that would be one thing, but if it's from some militant atheist's website that is another.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7869965 - 01/12/08 05:36 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Does this mean that if I quit going to church, I'll suddenly get smarter? :smirk:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: Diploid]
    #7869969 - 01/12/08 05:37 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

And richer


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7870653 - 01/12/08 07:59 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

AnastomosisJihad said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
article here

Sociological studies show a direct inverse proprotional link between religiosity and intelligence/education.

The children of highly religious parents suffer diminished IQs - averaging 7 to 10 points lower compared to their non-religious counterparts in similar socio-economic groups. As you would expect from these results, multiple studies have also shown that IQ is opposed to the strength of religious belief. 39 studies since 1927 (out of 43) have found that the more educated a person is, and the higher one's intelligence, the less likely someone is to hold religious beliefs.

Discuss. Or not.




Do you have a citation for this? I ask because the source is important for establishing the weight of a claim. If this is from the journal of Nature that would be one thing, but if it's from some militant atheist's website that is another.




It was from Scientific American (where they all wear swastikas & stuff).


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7870663 - 01/12/08 08:01 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
I'd agree with this. But I'd also have to stress the difference between Religious and Spiritual.




I'd like to hear your definition of spiritual.


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7870696 - 01/12/08 08:09 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

That is not a citation. I have neither the time nor the inclination to search through every story in every issue of Scientific American.

A citation is either a link I can click on, or a story name, page number, and issue number.


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come together


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7870721 - 01/12/08 08:16 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

I just saw the link. My bad!


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come together


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7871893 - 01/13/08 12:46 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Spirituality is a tendency to question consensus reality, and religiosity is an overeagerness to conclusively answer the questions (among other things). At least that is what the connotations of those words suggest to me.

A mind that believes itself to have the fundamental answers is naturally closed, and a closed mind naturally won't absorb as much as an open one.


Edited by Tchan909 (01/13/08 01:43 AM)


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OfflineSacrebleu
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7872234 - 01/13/08 02:45 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Spirituality is a tendency to question consensus reality, and religiosity is an overeagerness to conclusively answer the questions (among other things). At least that is what the connotations of those words suggest to me.

A mind that believes itself to have the fundamental answers is naturally closed, and a closed mind naturally won't absorb as much as an open one.




No, spiritualists seem to want to fill the void with by finding meaning in numbers, stars, planetary positions and chi energy. :P


--------------------
I have no funny saying. I have no quote. I have no ASCII art. I have no video. I have no meme. I have no bolded or italicized font.

My signature sucks.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: Sacrebleu]
    #7872246 - 01/13/08 02:50 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

The numbers, stars, planetary positions and chi energy are religiosity, just not of the type that I'm guessing you're most intimately familiar with.

Spirituality and religiosity feed on each other... it goes both ways, and the line between them isn't always clear. But there is a real difference.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (01/13/08 02:51 AM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: Sacrebleu]
    #7872258 - 01/13/08 02:57 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Exactly. I will wager $500 to any takers here that a group of TK, PK, crop circle, homeopathy or crystal power believers will also score lower on an IQ test (to be later agreed upon - perhaps the Mensa entry test) ON AVERAGE than those who recognize those fields as having no merit. (May also narrow it to one field to avoid confusion).

To make the test fair, I will accept 10 volunteers from both sides. They must be long-term members, have a high post count and regularly post in either P&S or M&P and their position must be made clear from past posts. (No ringers or switch-hitters.)

Using my powers, I predict no takers. If there are no takers, what might this tell us?


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (01/13/08 06:23 AM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7872366 - 01/13/08 04:55 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

That's because the tests are designed to be in coherence with a strictly worldly western logic system. Most things that appear in religiosity or spirituality don't appear in any form within those tests.
There are quite some definitions of intelligence.

And now think about the designers of those modern western 'intelligence' tests and their intention.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7872375 - 01/13/08 05:05 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Yeah, they purposely designed those test decades ago solely to fuck with 'cereologists' and UFO buffs. :rolleyes:

Western logic? Chinese and Japanese cannot figure things out? WTF?

Those with greater intelligence can figure out the pieces of the puzzle easier and have an increased ability (in general) to discern fact from fiction.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Religion, intelligence and education [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7872383 - 01/13/08 05:16 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

They were purposefully designed to cut away all assumtional, imaginary, analogical or metaphorical subjects and skills.
Of course, because they want to lead towards an unique result, one that excludes the possibilities behind each assumption.
It's only a self proving circular system, which excludes any way of breakout.
For an example, they rarely test any 'artistic' ability. Perhaps only there, where it would be 'adequte' haha, marketing or something..

edit: In short: The 'intelligence'-tests will only test that what one was educated :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (01/13/08 05:23 AM)


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