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Invisibleindica
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DMT an "escape pod" for the soul
    #7867072 - 01/11/08 10:12 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Just curious, not sure if anyone has written about this (most likely has) but was wondering what your thoughts were on DMT being an escape pod for the soul?

Since there is amounts of it in the human mind, when the physical body dies, the inner soul is released into the DMT void, which is nothing... and thus, left floating within it? I wrote a few pages on this a while back and will transcribe them when I get the chance...


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: indica]
    #7867087 - 01/11/08 10:15 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

This theory only works if the soul actually exists. :shrug:
Until now we don't know about it's certain existence so it's all speculation.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibleindica
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7867101 - 01/11/08 10:17 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)



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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: indica]
    #7867154 - 01/11/08 10:28 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Well then perhaps your thread is more appropriate for the M&P section :voila:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: indica]
    #7867241 - 01/11/08 10:51 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

xk3m_indica said:
Just curious, not sure if anyone has written about this (most likely has) but was wondering what your thoughts were on DMT being an escape pod for the soul?

Since there is amounts of it in the human mind, when the physical body dies, the inner soul is released into the DMT void, which is nothing... and thus, left floating within it? I wrote a few pages on this a while back and will transcribe them when I get the chance...




I spoke about this with some friends on a mushroom trip once. We wondered if, at death, the brain releases massive amounts of DMT. This could cause extreme time dilation, which could stretch into eternity. So the moment of your death would subjective last forever. It was an interesting thought at the time.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


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Offlinecheshirect666
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7867245 - 01/11/08 10:52 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

i personnaly have never tried DMT but have done a lot of reading on the substance and its history. also have an extraction recipe that i plan on following once i have the supplies and money to do so.
until then though i can only sit back and wait for the dmt to come to me


--------------------
Not all who wander are lost.


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Offlineclover606
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7867549 - 01/12/08 12:35 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
I spoke about this with some friends on a mushroom trip once. We wondered if, at death, the brain releases massive amounts of DMT. This could cause extreme time dilation, which could stretch into eternity. So the moment of your death would subjective last forever. It was an interesting thought at the time.




at death the brain does release alot of dmt, happens at birth too. my theory is when the pineal gland is formed 49 days after the child is concieved, the soul enters the body, then during birth, the dmt kinda jump starts the soul, sparks conscienceness, and then at death dmt is used to allow the soul to leave the body.


--------------------
grassman said:

I remember being in DARE when i was much younger and some of the stories they would tell you are not only ridiculous, but completely untrue. One story was that a woman was on LSD and thought her infant was a turkey so she baked it in the oven. Now I look back and think thats hilarious, but at the time I guess it scared me.


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul *DELETED* [Re: indica]
    #7868057 - 01/12/08 03:17 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: soulcircus]
    #7868472 - 01/12/08 09:35 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

i'd say there is alot more research that needs to be done figuring out why dmt is in the brain in the first place, when it came about evolutionarily.

Quote:

at death the brain does release alot of dmt, happens at birth too. my theory is when the pineal gland is formed 49 days after the child is concieved, the soul enters the body, then during birth, the dmt kinda jump starts the soul, sparks conscienceness, and then at death dmt is used to allow the soul to leave the body.




i could be wrong, but i'm going to assume that those statements are terribly wrong just because they're parroted based on one guy's speculation.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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Offlineigwna
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7868635 - 01/12/08 10:47 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

so does taking DMT recreationally seperate the soul from the body?
what if it gets lost? how does it find its way home?


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: indica]
    #7868658 - 01/12/08 10:55 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

xk3m_indica said:
Just curious, not sure if anyone has written about this (most likely has) but was wondering what your thoughts were on DMT being an escape pod for the soul?

Since there is amounts of it in the human mind, when the physical body dies, the inner soul is released into the DMT void, which is nothing... and thus, left floating within it? I wrote a few pages on this a while back and will transcribe them when I get the chance...




i think you mean to say brain, not mind, and it has not been proven that dmt is produced in/by the brain or pineal gland.

however, there are trace amounts of dmt in the blood. how it got there and what it's doing there, we haven't been able to find out.

i understand your use of the word soul, here, and tend to agree with you, although i don't really believe in a soul as much as i do energy

i am strongly inclined to believe that dmt is the mechanism for transference of energy when the physical body dies. and to say the 'dmt void' is nothing is a pretty bold statement.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: indica]
    #7868759 - 01/12/08 11:37 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Since there is amounts of it in the human mind...




Sorry, but you are mistaken.


--------------------


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Offlinecheshirect666
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7869504 - 01/12/08 03:43 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

i beleive i read somewhere that DMT is the substance that causes your visual dreams also...

just throwing that out there


--------------------
Not all who wander are lost.


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Offlinemr_pat
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: igwna]
    #7870797 - 01/12/08 08:33 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

skcorrelyt said:
so does taking DMT recreationally seperate the soul from the body?
what if it gets lost? how does it find its way home?




Thats what i have always wondered too...


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: indica]
    #7871188 - 01/12/08 10:03 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Someone DID write that book.

It is called DMT The Spirit Molecule... by Dr. Richard Strassman.

Great book... but his conclusions may disappoint you.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Rose]
    #7871496 - 01/12/08 11:16 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Rick Strassman.

An amazing book, painstakingly researched and honestly educational, containing a lot of the same theories mentioned here. It's got a lot of speculation, but the facts are clearly designated and separated (something many other books make you thankful for). And there's a lot of those too. You'll learn quite a bit about psychedelics by reading it; I think anybody who is interested in tripping (in general, not just on DMT) should go through it cover to cover.

I know there's a PDF of it floating around somewhere... I'll post it here when I find it.

edit: DMT: The Spirit Molecule, by Dr. Rick Strassman
Thanks and major props to maggotz for originally posting it.


Edited by Tchan909 (01/13/08 01:29 AM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Rose]
    #7871753 - 01/13/08 12:16 AM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Great book... but his conclusions may disappoint you.




You mean it is grounded in reality and not some flight of soul confirmation?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7871954 - 01/13/08 12:57 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

No... I mean...

Well, yeah... that is exactly what I meant.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Rose]
    #7871963 - 01/13/08 12:59 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Awwww... :frown:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinekody260z
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: indica]
    #7876128 - 01/13/08 10:12 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

One question, many people have mentioned the possibility of DMT being released by the brain when we die...but if this were true, what would happen to a person who dies via a sudden explosion of the head? If someone had a bomb, and literally blew someone's head (and brain) to pieces...how could the brain release the DMT to allow their soul to leave? The idea seems flawed...any thoughts?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: kody260z]
    #7876151 - 01/13/08 10:16 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

any thoughts?




Good thinking. :thumbup:
Since there is no brain on which the DMT can react, it seems like all this theory fails.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7876338 - 01/13/08 11:06 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Not exactly.

What if DMT is a chemical produced by the brain to HELP humans be born and die? What if it has nothing to do with the soul? Rather it just helps paralyze and relax a person as they enter life or death... or any other very traumatic situation.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Rose]
    #7876372 - 01/13/08 11:19 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Could be, but it's all just speculation again. Why I say that is because we still don't know exactly what makes DMT be released, under which circumstances.
Also, how would the psychedelic effect would be a certain aid in helping one relax?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7876475 - 01/13/08 11:54 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Edit: no flaming in this forum.


Edited by Diploid (01/15/08 01:49 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7876678 - 01/14/08 12:36 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Could be, but it's all just speculation again. Why I say that is because we still don't know exactly what makes DMT be released, under which circumstances.
Also, how would the psychedelic effect would be a certain aid in helping one relax?




DMT causes temporary paralysis. Helpful in traumatic circumstances... if you ask me. :shrug:

Could save a life... when death is near...

Leave it to humans to find deeper meaning.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7876924 - 01/14/08 02:00 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Love Cap said:
So what you're saying MushroomTrip, is that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about? Have you read the book?
Also, you need to stop telling people to go to the M&P section, this is philosophy and spirituality; you don't have to PROVE there is a soul to talk about spirituality.




This forum is specifically intended for critical analysis of any idea presented within. Of course, had you read the forum rules and guidelines, perhaps you would understand that, instead of being irrationally critical of someone who is simply pronouncing the distinction in intention between the two forums? :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7877024 - 01/14/08 03:23 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

So what you're saying MushroomTrip, is that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about? Have you read the book?




I would advice you that in the future you should stop making these kinds of remarks and actually think (if I'm not asking too much :lol:)
Yes, I have read the book.
It seems that both of us did only that you did not understand much of it. :smirk:
Rick Strassman CLEARLY stated that this theory is pure speculation and that it is NOT scientifically supported in any way.
Let's take a short look at what speculation means to make things crystal clear to you :hehehe:

Quote:

spec·u·la·tion      /ˌspɛkyəˈleɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spek-yuh-ley-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the contemplation or consideration of some subject: to engage in speculation on humanity's ultimate destiny.
2. a single instance or process of consideration.
3. a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation: These speculations are impossible to verify.
4. conjectural consideration of a matter; conjecture or surmise: a report based on speculation rather than facts.
5. engagement in business transactions involving considerable risk but offering the chance of large gains, esp. trading in commodities, stocks, etc., in the hope of profit from changes in the market price.
6. a speculative commercial venture or undertaking.




Sorry to break reality to you like that :shocked:

Quote:

Also, you need to stop telling people to go to the M&P section, this is philosophy and spirituality; you don't have to PROVE there is a soul to talk about spirituality.




Off to M&P with you, if you can't read some easy rues that are the foundation of this forum :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Rose]
    #7877026 - 01/14/08 03:24 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Could be, but it's all just speculation again. Why I say that is because we still don't know exactly what makes DMT be released, under which circumstances.
Also, how would the psychedelic effect would be a certain aid in helping one relax?




DMT causes temporary paralysis. Helpful in traumatic circumstances... if you ask me. :shrug:

Could save a life... when death is near...

Leave it to humans to find deeper meaning.




Yes, paralysis could save lives in SOME cases.
As well as in other cases it might END lives. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlineeve69
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7877199 - 01/14/08 06:51 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

I can tell you all what natural DMT does for the brain through 25 plus years doing TM and Buddhists yogas, it prevents the brain from sticking. It's like super oil for the mind. DMT itself has no reality but the structure of it has prismatic qualities, thus it permits the being a medium through which is can hone the point of cognition. The body itself has sentience and that sentience can be shared amongst systems through the supra-cognitive molecule. Cognition (sentience) itself is contact with the Deity.


--------------------
...or something







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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: eve69]
    #7877215 - 01/14/08 07:01 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Well we're making progress here.
So we established that DMT needs a viable brain in order to create a reaction.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7877314 - 01/14/08 08:08 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

I guess you can't make a person besides yourself think thoughts that are closer to reality;
but if you really care, and make lots of effort not to embellish, then what you see is what you get.

i will say this, if you spend less energy adding speculation and blocking things out.
what you will see will be much richer and more useful.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7877378 - 01/14/08 08:36 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Yes. :smile:
Believing in a form of speculative thought and taking it as being true, fixates one into an incomplete or false reality.
I see this to be against any form of progress. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7877482 - 01/14/08 09:21 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

to the person who proposed the bomb idea, they say that one is able to "sense" what is going on around them through vibrations. so, using precognition one's brain would be able to release the dmt before being obliterated. i believe that one is able to sense anything and everything everywhere, but our brains filter that information.

in eastern religions the "soul" is attached to the body by a string (to put it simply) when you die the string is cut, and you are released into a higher/lower realm.

as for needing dmt? my guess is that its a vehicle.


--------------------
Everybody's a ninja...


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #7877870 - 01/14/08 11:33 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

in eastern religions the "soul" is attached to the body by a string




There is no limit to unverifiable and silly beliefs.


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7877975 - 01/14/08 12:00 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

So the Universe really is infinite.:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7878956 - 01/14/08 04:01 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

So what you're saying MushroomTrip, is that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about? Have you read the book?




I would advice you that in the future you should stop making these kinds of remarks and actually think (if I'm not asking too much :lol:)
Yes, I have read the book.
It seems that both of us did only that you did not understand much of it. :smirk:
Rick Strassman CLEARLY stated that this theory is pure speculation and that it is NOT scientifically supported in any way.
Let's take a short look at what speculation means to make things crystal clear to you :hehehe:

Quote:

spec·u·la·tion      /ˌspɛkyəˈleɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spek-yuh-ley-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the contemplation or consideration of some subject: to engage in speculation on humanity's ultimate destiny.
2. a single instance or process of consideration.
3. a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation: These speculations are impossible to verify.
4. conjectural consideration of a matter; conjecture or surmise: a report based on speculation rather than facts.
5. engagement in business transactions involving considerable risk but offering the chance of large gains, esp. trading in commodities, stocks, etc., in the hope of profit from changes in the market price.
6. a speculative commercial venture or undertaking.




Sorry to break reality to you like that :shocked:

Quote:

Also, you need to stop telling people to go to the M&P section, this is philosophy and spirituality; you don't have to PROVE there is a soul to talk about spirituality.




Off to M&P with you, if you can't read some easy rues that are the foundation of this forum :smirk:





First of all, you have no reason to speculate that I didn't understand the book.
Second of all, for you to challenge my intelligence is dancing on the line of personal attack!

Of course I read the rules, and I completely understand the criticism.. but to want proof of everything stated is killing the topic of P&S. You can't prove everything in philosophy and spirituality, and I've seen a lot of people leave this forum because of you killing the conversation! It's not because of too much criticism, it's because you completely over look one's points and argue about trivial things.
If you want to cut down everything that everyone is saying because they don't have proof to back it up, then why don't YOU GO TO THE S&T SECTION!! stop trying to moderate!
CAN WE GET A REAL MODERATOR IN HERE?? THIS GIRL IS KILLING PHILOSOPHY!
also, if you're going to tell someone to 'read some easy RULES'.... maybe you should learn how to spell RULES before you start smirking!


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7880616 - 01/14/08 09:49 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

I am entering the speculation zone here. :smirk:
Judging by your responses, you might still be underage.
I hope you know the strict rules the this site has regarding people under 18.

Now getting back to the topic, people contribute or leave :bye:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: kody260z]
    #7881760 - 01/15/08 04:49 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

So, is the soul a metaphor for a densely packed, rich neurological structure that is derived from the outside enviornment and or genetics?


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7881764 - 01/15/08 04:54 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

We have no idea :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7881774 - 01/15/08 05:02 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Well it just seems like this Forum would be a lot easier to make progress if wee applied all the labels common to topics in these Forums (soul, spirit, god) to something more easily measurable such as brain scans, neurology, actions--shit that is more easliy convincing. ( I def. typed this, therefore it is objective)


Would'nt it be easier to break everything down into the most non-emotional, robotic terms, to more easily rationalize things?

Human emotion seems to convolute and derail things---

I guess the question is, is progress real, or an illusion when dealing with philosophical implications?


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7881788 - 01/15/08 05:19 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Love Cap said:

So what you're saying MushroomTrip, is that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about?




Love Cap... :chillpill:

Please keep it civil, you have been warned. :kittyeagle:

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:

Until now we don't know about it's certain existence so it's all speculation.




And what's wrong with that? How would Science or Philosophy progress without theories and speculation?

I understand these things haven't been proven, but that is no reason not to discuss them.

Food for thought:

Quote:

Philosophy  works with special types of objects: the totalities. The basic characteristics of this type of object are their metaphysical, transcendental, and total character. The character of these objects determines the specificity of language and the methods of philosophy. The language of philosophy represents symbolic language; speculation is the basic method of philosophy.




Quote:

What is it that philosophers do when they do philosophy? Much could be said here, but at lest two activities come to mind as typical of the methods of philosophers. Philosophers have from earliest times engaged in speculation, and philosophers have, for almost as long, engaged in analysis.

Speculation is merely the use of imagination and logic to offer new possibilities about things, especially about things not yet understood by science. The very first ancient Greek philosophers were speculators about the nature of reality. They wished to make sense of the rich but confusing world of sense experience, and they thought that there must be some underlying principle or principles of reality that could explain it all. Thales (600 B.C.) thought the underlying principle was water. Others had other speculative ideas about reality, some farfetched, but some quite remarkable for their anticipation of later scientific discoveries. Anaximander (550 B.C.) thought that reality, including the planets and life on earth, had evolved from a primal substance infinite and eternal. Perhaps the most rermarkable theory was that of Democritus (450 B.C.) who held that reality consisted of tiny invisible, indivisible particles called atoms. These examples show the connection between science and speculative philosophy: philosophy offers some possibilities which science can not prove or disprove at the time. But as these possibilities received scientific confirmation, what was philosophy ceases to be and becomes part of science. Indeed, much of what is now science was once part of speculative philosophy. Before the birth of modern science in the 17th century, physics was officially known as "natural philosophy." In more recent times what began as philosophical speculation about the nature and origin of the universe has led to the emergence of scientific cosmology and the confirmation of theories like the big bang.

Philosophical speculation has proved useful in non-scientific areas as well. When Thomas Jefferson and the American Founding Fathers undertook the "American experient" they were borrowing heavily on the political philosophers of the previous century, especially John Locke (Treatise on Government, 1690) who provided revolutionary ideas about the virtues of represented government, the separation of powers and human rights, including the right of revolution.

Analysis typically involves the inspection and definition of concepts in order to gain a clearer understanding of things, especially things that the philosopher finds puzzling. Philosophers have perennially asked such questions as What is justice? What is knowledge? What is consciousness? What is reality? And these questions call for analysis of the concepts involved, viz. the concept of justice and the concept of knowledge.

As an example of philosophical analysis (though somewhat simplistic) consider the problem of the tree that falls in the forest with no one (not even a bird or chipmunk) around to hear it. The question to be answered is: Does the falling tree, when it hits the ground, make any sound? You may have heard of this problem. It is sometimes used (wrongly) as an example of a philosophical question that has no answer, or (again wrongly) of the pointlessness of philosophical investigation. But the question does have a definite answer, and the example nicely illustrates (even if overly simplified) the usefulness of philosophical analysis.

On first take, some want to answer that obviously the tree will make a sound. After all, sound is something objectively real which shouldn't need the presence of a perceiver to occur, even if it is true that we've never heard a sound that we didn't hear. Even the sound we didn't hear could be evidenced by (say) a tape recorder placed in the vicinity. So yes, it makes a sound, or so it seems. But, in contrast, it also seems that sound is a subjective phenomenon, something not unlike a sweet taste or the feeling of pain—things that seem to require a perceiver. And so one might well doubt whether the tree really makes any sound. What should be apparent here is that "sound" has more than one meaning. That is, there is more than one concept of sound. Indeed, consider two definitions of sound, one which we might call the physics concept, and the other the psychology concept of sound.

soundphys = vibrations in a medium (such as air)

soundpsy = a sensation; an auditory experience

These are both legitimate definitions. The first (physics) reflects interest in sound as a physical phenomenon. The second (psychology) reflects interest in sound as a kind of experience. Notice that these two kinds of sound, though related, are different and can occur independent of each other. Normally sound as vibrations causes sound as an experience. But they can occur independently, i.e. one without the other. For example, sound as vibrations doesn't have to cause sound as an experience (perceivers might not be present or their ears/brains might be damaged). And sound as an experience could occur without being caused by vibrations in the air (the perceiver might be undergoing some internal halluncinogenic stimulus from chemicals in the brain). Once we see the distinction between these two concepts we can see that the original question is ambiguous; it has more than one meaning. The question (Will the tree make any sound?) is really one of two questions:

(1) Will the tree make any soundphys?
(2) Will the tree make any soundpsy?

The answer to the original querstion depends on the sort of sound the questioner is asking about. The answer to (1) is: Yes, there will be sound in the physics sense (soundphys i.e. vibrations). The answer to (2) is: No, there will not be sound in the psychology sense (soundpsy i.e. auditory experience). So the question, once clarified, has a definite answer.

This example (though untypically simple) illustrates not only the technique of philosophical analysis, but it also shows its importance. Analysis reminds us that words have more than one meaning, and things called by the same name may really be different concepts. The clarification of concepts is often a prerequisite to a proper understanding of a problem which, in turn, is a prerequisite for dispelling confusion and providing a satisfactory answer to some of philosophy's ultimate questions.




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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7881790 - 01/15/08 05:24 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I think that one of the main purposes of philosophy is to make the difference between the is and is not.
This is essential if we want to ever make some progress.
Now... this IS NOT doesn't necessarily imply lack of existence of a certain phenomenon let's say, but the lack of reliable evidence.
Basically, if philosophy would stop taking that to account, it wouldn't be philosophy anymore.

The one sided view belongs to those who choose to feel butt hurt about the aim of philosophy.
It's like starting to bitch because lemons are not sweet and then when someone offers them honey as a sweet alternative they say that what THEY want are sweet lemons. :lol:
Philosophy doesn't close any door, doesn't limit one or keep them from any possibility, like belief does. In the same time it gives one the possibility to understand, to structure and maneuver life in a much more efficient and constructive way.

Quote:

Would'nt it be easier to break everything down into the most non-emotional, robotic terms, to more easily rationalize things?




At first I would say yes.
But if I think about it more I'll say not necessarily.
Meaning that emotions and non-robotic things have their well defined in there.
One strong example in that direction is the Poem of Parmenides.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7881794 - 01/15/08 05:31 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:

Now... this IS NOT doesn't necessarily imply lack of existence of a certain phenomenon let's say, but the lack of reliable evidence.
Basically, if philosophy would stop taking that to account, it wouldn't be philosophy anymore.




I think you are confusing philosophy with physics. Did you read my post?

Philosophy is not about what is or isn't, it's about what might be.


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Middleman]
    #7882112 - 01/15/08 08:11 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

And what's wrong with that? How would Science or Philosophy progress without theories and speculation?

I understand these things haven't been proven, but that is no reason not to discuss them.





Yes, as long as we keep in mind that it IS speculation.
Many people get offended when they're being told that their dear theory is at the state of speculation.
Tell me, how is this in any way constructive to philosophy and advancement in correct thinking?

Quote:

Philosophy is not about what is or isn't, it's about what might be.




This is exactly why I said:
"Now... this IS NOT doesn't necessarily imply lack of existence of a certain phenomenon let's say, but the lack of reliable evidence."

Quote:

Speculation is merely the use of imagination and logic to offer new possibilities about things, especially about things not yet understood by science.




No.
If an idea remains at the state of speculation it means that it had logical inadequacies.
Imagination and logic have to fit together in order to become philosophically valid.

I never implied that we have reached the most accurate answers through philosophy.
On the contrary, I think that we are still on the very beginning.
However, this is entirely different than just: things not yet understood by science. :lol:
Using this chain of thought, one could say that unicorns are still not understood by science.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7882180 - 01/15/08 08:34 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Breaking down the soul to a measurable tangible substance kind of takes away some of the meaning of the soul, don't you think? we're talking about spirituality here, aren't we?
Has the pineal gland been mentioned yet? I'm pretty sure that it has been proven that certain actions, such as meditation for example vibrates that part of your brain... and the SPECULATION (that's for you, girl) that comes from that is that DMT is released when the pineal gland is being charged.

And to mushroomtrip, you just totally contradicted yourself by telling people to contribute or leave.... saying 'we have no idea' doesn't really contribute much. and i think it's pretty fucking hilarious that your only response to my last post is calling me underage. who's acting underage again? It's just so sad to see intelligent people, people who actually contribute INSIGHT to the discussion leave the P&S section because of your annoyance, but I'm not going to be one of them.


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882190 - 01/15/08 08:38 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Looks like I didn't see the 3rd page until after that response, but let me say, there is a difference between science and philosophy.


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882233 - 01/15/08 08:57 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

And to mushroomtrip, you just totally contradicted yourself by telling people to contribute or leave.... saying 'we have no idea' doesn't really contribute much.




Really?
I'm interested how you reached this conclusion because your argumentation would be aiming towards sustaining that the soul exists.
So tell me, does the soul exist? :strokebeard:
Perhaps you're holding some evidence that the rest of us are unaware of. :smirk:
Otherwise, it's all just bull shit talking with no foundation in reality. :imslow:

Quote:

and i think it's pretty fucking hilarious that your only response to my last post is calling me underage. who's acting underage again? It's just so sad to see intelligent people, people who actually contribute INSIGHT to the discussion leave the P&S section because of your annoyance, but I'm not going to be one of them.




Well your post didn't require any philosophical view since it was all just bitching and complaining. :smirk:
:bitch:
In the near future please hold those beliefs for yourself and focus on the subject that's being discussed.

Ahhh and one more thing: stating the obvious (what we don't know yet) is an important contribution in combating the fixed ideas that stand against progress.  :flowstone:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882245 - 01/15/08 09:01 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Love Cap said:
And to mushroomtrip, you just totally contradicted yourself by telling people to contribute or leave.... saying 'we have no idea' doesn't really contribute much. and i think it's pretty fucking hilarious that your only response to my last post is calling me underage. who's acting underage again? It's just so sad to see intelligent people, people who actually contribute INSIGHT to the discussion leave the P&S section because of your annoyance, but I'm not going to be one of them.




Such ignorance of the forum rules. Discuss the ideas and not the poster, hmm? :strokebeard:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7882284 - 01/15/08 09:11 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Stating the obvious is like implying that rest of us aren't seeing that.
No, I cannot 'scientifically prove' that the soul exists.

From wikipedia: The soul, according to many religious and philosophical traditions, is the self-aware essence unique to a particular living being. In these traditions the soul is thought to incorporate the inner essence of each living being, and to be the true basis for sapience. It is believed in many cultures and religions that the soul is the unification of one's sense of identity.

I'm sorry for you if you have not connected with your soul.
So since you don't have proof, do you think spirituality exists?
And is there any other kind of proof that you take in that doesn't come from a lab or someone in a white coat?
Say for example, you and 10 of your friends all had the exact same visions and enlightening experience, and it felt more real than anything you've felt before... would that be proof to you that it is real?
Since this is an open forum, and it's also philosophy, I'm not holding shit back.  :commonsense:

and middleman, mod, where do you draw the line here?


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7882292 - 01/15/08 09:14 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Love Cap said:
And to mushroomtrip, you just totally contradicted yourself by telling people to contribute or leave.... saying 'we have no idea' doesn't really contribute much. and i think it's pretty fucking hilarious that your only response to my last post is calling me underage. who's acting underage again? It's just so sad to see intelligent people, people who actually contribute INSIGHT to the discussion leave the P&S section because of your annoyance, but I'm not going to be one of them.




Such ignorance of the forum rules. Discuss the ideas and not the poster, hmm? :strokebeard:




ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU JUST DID? HAHAHAHAHA

isn't that so sweet that your love is backing you up? awwww i hope you DO meet in outer space!!! :blowme:


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882293 - 01/15/08 09:14 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

He obviously drew the line with your first post, which he has already warned you about. Flames, personalisms, none of which are permitted, turning an on-topic discussion into some kind of personality war simply because you objected to a viewpoint that someone else put forth... Way to go. :rolleyes:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882307 - 01/15/08 09:18 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Love Cap said:
ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU JUST DID? HAHAHAHAHA

isn't that so sweet that your love is backing you up? awwww i hope you DO meet in outer space!!! :blowme:




I'm taking it upon myself, acting as honorary moderator in Middleman's stead in pointing it out, since I threw in the towel of simply deleting the comment myself. :smirk:  He's already given you a warning and you continue to degrade the level of discourse in this thread to an immature level that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Congratulations, life awards you with the "I'm Posting In The Wrong Forum And I'm Stubbornly Oblivious To The Reality Of It All" title. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7882313 - 01/15/08 09:20 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I'm not objecting anyone's view point, i'm objecting to your little girlfriend putting down everyone else's view point. Like I said, this is philosophy and not everything in it can be proven.

And, if you couldn't see, I've already said what I wanted to say about my problems with the way she argues, and I've already gotten back on the subject. Now did you come in this forum to defend her, or did you come into this forum to talk about subject? Because I've already gotten back on and now you're just side tracking.


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882337 - 01/15/08 09:31 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I'm calling a spade a spade, as you've opened the opportunity for doing so by blatantly disregarding the rules, even after receiving a moderator warning agansit continuance. Anyone who would continuously seek so obtusely to making objections regarding the personal nature of another in these manners doesn't understand the purpose and intention of this forum. Your immature "little girlfriend" comments and likewise are nothing more than personal attacks, or references, depending on just how much investment you are placing within them; regardless, they have no place in P&S.

Your saying as much regarding her manner of approaching discussion, which is explicity encouraged in the forum rules and guidelines, has no place in this forum. Opening the subject in such a manner, continuing it, and then conviently trying to dodge your responsibility in doing so by attempting to place your behavior on me, a simple observer who is compelled to speak out for the intention and purpose of P&S, and then referring to your redeeming act of focusing once more on the on-topic discussion does not escape me.

I have no need to defend MT, as she is more than capable of pointing out the irony in your berating someone for speaking up for the purpose and intention of this forum. :lol: Its intriguing that you would bend the rules and then speak out for them when someone calls you on it. :smirk:

I'd be happy enough to see you actually read the forum rules and post a quick summary on exactly how discussion in this forum is intended to be carried out, but, in consideration of the likely inevitability of further avoidance of assumption of one's own responsibility for one's actions, I'll simply go back to jamming on my guitar and reflecting on the days when I used to babysit individuals who couldn't take the time to moderate themselves. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7882364 - 01/15/08 09:39 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

As if you wouldn't chime in if it wasn't about your girlfriend. Just as much as I have talked about her personality in arguing, she has degraded my intelligence in the first place. As soon as the mod told me to chill, I chilled, the only other thing I've pointed out since is her contradicting herself which is allowed, and I've seen her do the same plenty. You, staying off topic this much is also contradicting yourself.  Like I said, I've already gotten back on the subject, but you choose to keep whining. My last post you completely ignored what I was saying about the subject and just kept on about bullshit. NOW. lets get back on the subject. Where were we? I'll re post what I last said.




Stating the obvious is like implying that rest of us aren't seeing that.
No, I cannot 'scientifically prove' that the soul exists.

From wikipedia: The soul, according to many religious and philosophical traditions, is the self-aware essence unique to a particular living being. In these traditions the soul is thought to incorporate the inner essence of each living being, and to be the true basis for sapience. It is believed in many cultures and religions that the soul is the unification of one's sense of identity.

I'm sorry for you if you have not connected with your soul.
So since you don't have proof, do you think spirituality exists?
And is there any other kind of proof that you take in that doesn't come from a lab or someone in a white coat?
Say for example, you and 10 of your friends all had the exact same visions and enlightening experience, and it felt more real than anything you've felt before... would that be proof to you that it is real?
Since this is an open forum, and it's also philosophy, I'm not holding shit back. :commonsense:


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882377 - 01/15/08 09:42 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Stating the obvious is like implying that rest of us aren't seeing that.
No, I cannot 'scientifically prove' that the soul exists.




Thank you very much, that's all I needed to know :smirk:
You can't talk about things that are uncertain in a certain way. Not from a philosophical perspective.
I have nothing against your personal beliefs, ad long as you keep them personal. As long as you don't turn them into something that guides the public flux of thinking. Because if you do that mass delusion occurs and I think we already have enough of that. :hehehe:
It's easy to see (if you decide to think towards it), how many errors of thinking a simple statement such as the one about the existence of a soul can produce. This is how religion appears, all those fear based ideas, followed by all that resentments and hate towards other people.
This is how people believe in a god that will punish those the "did them wrong", this is how we let go of our ability to remain lucid in moments of vulnerability.

Quote:

Say for example, you and 10 of your friends all had the exact same visions and enlightening experience, and it felt more real than anything you've felt before... would that be proof to you that it is real?




Friends usually think a like.
Humans usually think a like, we all resemble more than we might want to admit.
How is it so hard to believe that those "striking" similarities come from that?

Quote:

I'm not holding shit back.




It seems so  :glittershitz:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7882450 - 01/15/08 10:06 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Ok, maybe not even friends, what if that same situation happened with strangers?
also, you skipped a few responses of my post. the definition of a soul. that doesn't mean that the soul doesn't exist. i'll ask again; is there any other proof to you besides people with phd's and lab coats? i think experience is enough proof to me, and if you've broken through as well, that would be proof to you.
I think that's the beauty of spirituality, because it's beyond our language and technology to prove things lying in it.
and maybe that's our next step in human progress, when we're able to reach that level of reality in our science.

'that's all i needed to know'.... that's the reason arguing with you bothers me, because you will ignore a lot of important point and just choose what statements you want to tear apart. if you want to have a real solid discussion with me, you have to take in every point i make.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882463 - 01/15/08 10:09 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Love Cap said:
As if you wouldn't chime in if it wasn't about your girlfriend.




I thought you had already gotten back on the original topic for discussion? :strokebeard:

I have a marked history of standing up for the ideals this forum is founded upon. I wouldn't have chimed in if I didn't witness someone chide someone, with whom I'm coincidentally related to, bearing no relevance to the matter (you only mention it because you blatantly disregard the rules of the forum), that is standing for those ideals.

Quote:


Just as much as I have talked about her personality in arguing, she has degraded my intelligence in the first place.




How exactly does someone other than yourself reduce the value of your own intelligence? :what:

Personalisms aren't permitted in this forum.

Quote:


As soon as the mod told me to chill, I chilled, the only other thing I've pointed out since is her contradicting herself which is allowed, and I've seen her do the same plenty.




No, you didn't chill. You continued to violate the rules. :sorry:

Quote:


You, staying off topic this much is also contradicting yourself.




No it isn't. Settling a misunderstanding of how this forum is intended to be utilized directly impacts topics staying on-topic, as it promotes understanding of the nature of the forum and how discussion are meant to remain on-topic. If you think you should be afforded a blank check to violate the rules and then avoid being subjected to critical assessment of your behavior with this dodge, you're wrong. Of course, another limitation, namely the fact that I now have better things to do, will probably let you get away with it further. :smirk:

Quote:


  Like I said, I've already gotten back on the subject, but you choose to keep whining.




So do you. :shrug:

Ahh, duality. Sometimes it is trying to teach you something, though. :wink:

Quote:


My last post you completely ignored what I was saying about the subject and just kept on about bullshit.




So, the ideals the forum are founded upon are bullshit? No wonder you blatantly disregard them and personally attack others for simply using this forum for its intended purpose. :lol: :cuckoo:

Quote:


NOW. lets get back on the subject.




Nah, I'd rather have the last word. :naughty:

Quote:


Where were we? I'll re post what I last said.




Why would you do that? The fact that some didn't find it inspiring enough to respond to doesn't mean that they simply happened to miss it the first time. :smile:

Well, I've had my debate feast for the month, I'll catch you all later. :bye:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882472 - 01/15/08 10:12 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Love Cap said:
'that's all i needed to know'.... that's the reason arguing with you bothers me, because you will ignore a lot of important point and just choose what statements you want to tear apart. if you want to have a real solid discussion with me, you have to take in every point i make.




Ahh, I can't resist! :smirk:

I find it interesting that you feel to hold the superior viewpoint of how others should choose to respond to your ideas. Why not make it more obvious and simply decree that all must agree with you and kiss your ass exactly the way you like? :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7882501 - 01/15/08 10:19 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

You obviously didn't get my point. At least your girl here kept on with the subject of what we were talking about here. but you, you choose to keep attacking me. Therefore, i'm only going to disregard everything you have to say unless it applies to the subject. I haven't broken any rules, oh god of the P&S forum!


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882534 - 01/15/08 10:23 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Love Cap said:
You obviously didn't get my point. At least your girl here kept on with the subject of what we were talking about here. but you, you choose to keep attacking me. Therefore, i'm only going to disregard everything you have to say unless it applies to the subject. I haven't broken any rules, oh god of the P&S forum!




You're doing it right now :lol:

Ahh yes, and I shall reply to your post later on, now I have to do what's most important to me - be with my sweetheart. :heartpump:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882551 - 01/15/08 10:25 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I didn't attack you, now did I? If you perceive dissenting viewpoints and critical analysis of one's own behavior as an "attack", then it simply further illustrates a misunderstanding of this forum. Such is the case, though, with individuals who associate a sense of identity to the expressions they put forth in this forum. :shrug:

You can say you'll disregard it, but we all know you'll feel compelled to read it anyways. :wink:

Also, I see no reason to trivalize the purpose and intention of the P&S forum. If anything, it signifies a lack of respect for the form in which you are interacting. :nono:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7882602 - 01/15/08 10:32 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

When you think i'm breaking the rules, it's because i'm pointing out how you are trying to take philosophy and turn it into a physics discussion. I'm also simply pointing out that it's philosophy AND SPIRITUALITY... which is almost impossible to put logic into. I'm allowed to do that, if i was still breaking the rules, then why isn't a mod telling me so? This is fucking ridiculous if we can't have a philosophical discussion with out this bullshit.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882637 - 01/15/08 10:40 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

What, you don't want to have a philosophical discussion about this bullshit? Doesn't seem that way, considering your continued participation. I myself am interested in doing so, since we're talking about the purpose and intention of the forum here.

Do you honestly expect a moderator to be online 24/7 to moderate in absence of your own sense of moderation? :lol:

I find your concept of logic having no place in spirituality entirely unsubstantiated. Spirituality and logic go hand-in-hand. I also see no substance to your "pointing out my taking a philosophical discussion and turning it into physics". Its all moot, because anyone who can't understand why they are having a discussion that they themselves started by violating the rules of this forum doesn't compel me to invest more of my own time. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7882679 - 01/15/08 10:49 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

well seems like you have plenty of time to argue about the bullshit factor of it, instead of discussing the philosophical points.
And mod, since she made a comment about 'being with her sweetheart'... since that has no philosophical value, am i 'allowed' to say how fucking idiotic and pointless that statement was? AM I?!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882698 - 01/15/08 10:54 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

No you aren't. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7882729 - 01/15/08 11:01 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

notice how every usually leaves when you two come into the thread, does that tell you anything?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882928 - 01/15/08 11:29 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

It tells me its hard to type when you're bowing before someone. :hehehe:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7882986 - 01/15/08 11:41 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

ignored. you have nothing interesting to say anymore.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7883002 - 01/15/08 11:43 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

The Shroomery desperately needs a butthurt emoticon :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7883022 - 01/15/08 11:47 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Geeeeeeesss ya'll.:shrug:


--------------------


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: indica]
    #7883562 - 01/15/08 01:57 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Alright everyone. Enough flaming. Argue all you like, but calling people names in this forum is out of line. Geeze, I'm away for a few hours and come back to find this. :sad:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Diploid]
    #7883589 - 01/15/08 02:04 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

i hope i wasn't the only one with a warning. shit. i'm still trying to explain my view on the existence of a soul. and the third eye. is anyone still out there up for discussion? or were you all chased away by this dumb side tracking?
i do believe that the third eye could be the pineal gland, since that's the part of the brain that has been proven to vibrate when entering an altered state, like i said before, for example, meditation. it is a speculation that that is when dmt is released into the brain. but i do know opening the third eye is something that exists, and anyone who denies that just hasn't had theirs opened :smile:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7883709 - 01/15/08 02:33 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

the pineal gland, since that's the part of the brain that has been proven to vibrate when entering an altered state

I'm not sure I buy this.

Do you have a link to a credible source?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Diploid]
    #7883717 - 01/15/08 02:35 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Alright everyone. Enough flaming. Argue all you like, but calling people names in this forum is out of line. Geeze, I'm away for a few hours and come back to find this. :sad:




When you leave like that, be sure to put newspaper on the floor first and lock all the cabinets.


--------------------


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7883741 - 01/15/08 02:39 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/man-evol/mie-16.htm

also, check out the book Occultism Of The Secret Doctrine
By H. P. Blavatsky


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7883880 - 01/15/08 03:06 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

I asked for a credible source. The stated objective of the Theosophical Society, from their own web is:

The first objective of The Theosophical Society is to demonstrate that the oneness of all life is a fact in nature and to form a nucleus of a universal brotherhood. This, according to Blavatsky, is because...

That's an organization with an agenda.

And your link simply says:

The heart is higher, because it is the organ of the individual's spiritual nature, including the higher manas or spiritual intellect. When the heart inflames the pineal gland and sets it vibrating rapidly, then so strong is the inflow of spiritual force that the man experiencing this has his very body clothed in an aureole of glory. A nimbus is behind his head, for as the pineal gland vibrates rapidly the inner eye is opened and sees infinity; and the aureole or nimbus is the energic outflow from this activity of the pineal gland.

But it provides nothing to back up the assertion. Simply stating something in a vacuum does not make it credible or true.

So, I'll ask again: do you have a link to a credible (read: peer reviewed science article) that supports what you're claiming (that the pineal vibrates)? The Theosophical society simply saying it's true "because they said so" isn't any better than you saying it's true "because you said so".

There are dozens of peer reviewed neurology journals. If this pineal vibration is a real phenomenon, surely one of them has reported it by now, no?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Diploid]
    #7883896 - 01/15/08 03:10 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

alright, i'll search for it. but you should also check out that book.


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Offlinemr_pat
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: Love Cap]
    #7895392 - 01/17/08 10:49 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

this thread is so interesting... thanks guys


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OfflineGrok
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: mr_pat]
    #7897066 - 01/18/08 11:30 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Much of the speculation behind DMT doesn't make any sense to me - such as the "escape pod" or death-soul release serum postulates. Take for instance somebody who gets shot in the head from behind by a tank. There isn't going to be any time for any DMT release, or anything relating to cognition at all in fact. So where does this leave the soul?

While my extensive personal use of DMT has felt me inclined hold spiritual beliefs, I don't think anyone really knows what the function of DMT is. If post-physical-death life, God, spiritual/mystical realities, and all that other stuff that's completely irrelevant to everyday life are actually real, I believe that DMT is a key to access these. But like I said it's hard to see the revelance of what DMT offers to the world you inevitably return to. Then again it's been awhile since I've smoked it, and as time goes on you completely forget the utter immensity, realness, familiarity, and magnificence of a breakthrough DMT trip and all of the things it seems to imply.

McKenna put it well:

"Q: How can someone benefit from that experience? (referring to DMT/Ayahuasca)

A:...seems to me it gives real answers. Maybe you don't believe those answers, but I know a convincing argument when I see it. If anybody with argument could do to you what DMT does to you, why you'd embrace it in a hurry."
~Terence McKenna "The Last Word" video


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: kody260z]
    #7904886 - 01/20/08 07:51 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

dmt released by the brain is merely conjecture
all death experience scenarios are also conjecture

so much is happenning that we miss, so much that we don't understand, right here in this context of living, as it is, I can hardly grasp the attraction to death oriented conjecturing.

the magick is here and now.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlineeve69
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Re: DMT an "escape pod" for the soul [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7905236 - 01/20/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I know what DMT does from the POV of personal life, and that is it unsticks the thinking from cohesion to itself as a thought form. DMT unhinges the mind. Which if that's your path then many forms of practice exist for that mental freq.


--------------------
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