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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: shevanel] * 1
    #8155724 - 03/16/08 11:32 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

74F yeah it'll slow but not by much. The ideal room temperature is 75-78F for cubes, though. It's better then sweating the mycelium though and causing another risk of contamintion/bacteria as those thrive in the higher temperatures. They'll colonize a day or three faster at 80-82F though.

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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8155745 - 03/16/08 11:39 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

81 degrees F. is the best temp to colonize jars the fastest at.


tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: Roadkill]
    #8155817 - 03/17/08 12:02 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

How many days does it take you roadkill. I agree, though.

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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8155856 - 03/17/08 12:18 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Time varies depending on what I'm inoculating with...
multi-spore, LC, agar wedges, or a G2G transfer.

and if I'm using grow bags or jars, and what size jars.

and even which kind of substrate I'm using.


tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8155943 - 03/17/08 12:57 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

This is an old debate... and tonight, I find it rather silly.

I have incubated at 80+...  and it may be more effective than room temp... BUT not MUCH more... not at all... AND incubation allows for many more ways to fuck somethig up. Period.

I have tried room temp... and it is better against contams... but it is a little bit slower... IMO.

But recently, I moved to the sub-tropics... and...

I NOW suspect a varying heat cycle... representing a nice hot day and a perfectly warm night... I think this might prove more successful than incubation OR room temp. I suspect temps ranging from 70-86 degrees... warming and cooling in 12 hour cycles... would be best. But hey, I ain't no scientist. Then again, HEY HEY!!! This ain't rocket science folks.

Cubes have incubated themselves outdoors in sub-tropical climates for far longer than humans have cultivated them. Simply simulate THAT environment... or at the very least keep temps stable and within parameters. :wink:

Once colonized... bring the light and the water... to simulate sun and rain. You'll have plenty of fatties... just give 'em what they like... when they like it.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: Rose]
    #8156122 - 03/17/08 03:37 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

There is an optimal temperature for every organism that gives optimal growth rate. Standard lab practice is to incubate at optimal growth rate. This may be anywhere from 75-85F for cubes, but it's certainly above room temp.

Incubation temp has no effect on contamination rate. To say otherwise is to defy logic.


-FF

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: fastfred]
    #8156677 - 03/17/08 10:14 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:

Incubation temp has no effect on contamination rate. To say otherwise is to defy logic.






I'm sorry, I was under the impression that the COOLER we keep our food, the longer it LASTS.

This is why HUMANS use REFRIGERATORS.

Temp DOES have an effect on contamination rate and to say OTHERWISE is to defy logic.


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Offlinebigred
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: Rose]
    #8156709 - 03/17/08 10:26 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

I'm to new to know, but , My cam's seem to really like it warmer than the other strains.
Seems Ive seen it posted some where as well.
My Tc's didn't start well at 82 but took off at 77 to 78. So Id say to read about the starin your working with befor hand.

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: bigred]
    #8156738 - 03/17/08 10:36 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Depending on how much substrate because they generate their own heat by themselves.

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OfflineBungalow Bill
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: shevanel]
    #8157005 - 03/17/08 11:47 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

If your cultivation room is at 68-78 you are golden for incubating and fruiting.


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OfflineSomeScienceStuff
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: shevanel]
    #8157022 - 03/17/08 11:51 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Just moved my Temp down from 85 to 79.

Thanks For the INfo! :laugh:


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: SomeScienceStuff]
    #8157091 - 03/17/08 12:07 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

The biggest problem with incubation is SO MANY people do something wrong... and cook their jars. There is at least one n00b per day who posts with such an issue. Remove incubation from the process, and all of those n00b mistakes simply go away.

There is no need to incubate unless your temp is consistently below 70... and even then, you don't need to incubate much warmer than 70.

Once your temps reach the 80's, you are creating a better environment for potential contams to thrive.

AND if you are using grain jars or substrate bags, really there is no need to incubate at all. Just shake your jars (or smoosh your bags) at the right times and colonization will be every bit as quick... at room temp. As they colonize, they'll begin to generate their own heat.

Incubation CAN help speed things up... if you do it right. BUT, MANY PEOPLE FUCK UP... TOO MANY. It is not worth the added cost, risk and effort just to save a day or two.. on a couple of half-pint cakes.

Only BULK PF growers should invest in an incubator... or people who live in very cold houses. Everybody else is better off without one.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: Rose]
    #8158721 - 03/17/08 07:04 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

fastfred said:
Incubation temp has no effect on contamination rate. To say otherwise is to defy logic.




I'm sorry, I was under the impression that the COOLER we keep our food, the longer it LASTS.

This is why HUMANS use REFRIGERATORS.

Temp DOES have an effect on contamination rate and to say OTHERWISE is to defy logic.




Your leftovers in the fridge have nothing to do with the sterile technique used in mycology.

Perhaps you simply misunderstand the term "contaminated". If you have one spore or bacterium other than the desired organism your culture is contaminated.

Or perhaps you have not yet heard that the "spontaneous generation" theory has been disproven.

Heating something up by 10F can't magically generate life from nothing. Nor can cooling something down by 10F magically kill contaminants.


-FF

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Offlinecrazyeddie
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: fastfred]
    #8158762 - 03/17/08 07:15 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

i hate to keep a tangent going, but i'm gunna do it anyway.

if the possible contam also grew faster at the higher temp. it would be possible for increasing the temp to increase the contam rate. but that might take real experimentation.

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: crazyeddie]
    #8158784 - 03/17/08 07:19 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Anything beyond 81+ increases the chances of contamination/bacteria PERIOD. You'll see the difference in how fast you colonize a jar at 80-82F but you're taking a risk.

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8158808 - 03/17/08 07:24 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Heating something up by 10F can't magically generate life from nothing. Nor can cooling something down by 10F magically kill contaminants.





So what you're saying is EX: If a green mold spore. Just ONE dropped into two jars. One incubating at 86F and one incubating at room temperature. Since the mycelium hasn't generated yet the green spore wouldn't colonize faster in the higher temps? As apposed to the one in room temperature. The one in higher temps wouldn't favor the green in the higher incubation temperature then the lower incubation temperature?

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8159114 - 03/17/08 08:33 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

So what you're saying is EX: If a green mold spore. Just ONE dropped into two jars. One incubating at 86F and one incubating at room temperature. Since the mycelium hasn't generated yet the green spore wouldn't colonize faster in the higher temps? As apposed to the one in room temperature. The one in higher temps wouldn't favor the green in the higher incubation temperature then the lower incubation temperature?




In your example the spore is alive, meaning that you will have unintended, unwanted living organisms in your culture, meaning that it is contaminated. While in some cases you might not care it is still a contaminated culture.

By not finding and eliminating contaminated cultures you are simply masking sloppy or improper technique. By not correcting your methods you end up losing more in the long run.

In the case of trich by not incubating you are simply delaying germination and/or growth until the substrate is in your FC. There it can do far more damage and has wasted more "jar time" than if you had caught it earlier during incubation. Trich parasites myc so you can't simply out grow or overgrow it.

In the case of non-parasitic fungal contaminates or bacteria perhaps you can out-compete them by not giving them the advantages of a higher temp, but that's hardly optimal. IMHO it's better to catch contamination as soon as possible and eliminate it rather than fight to save questionable material.

Conventional lab wisdom is that if you are using sterile technique you grow at the optimal temp for your organism. If you are trying to isolate from contaminated material then you may want to grow at temps disfavoring your presumed contaminates.

I'm not sure why there's all this incubation hating going on. It seems like if one respected expert comes out against something everyone jumps on the bandwagon like it's gospel, all despite the fact that growers have known the benefits of incubation and used it for decades with great success.

There are plenty of reasons why you might not want to incubate, and there's certainly no requirement, but if you have the skill and resources to do it properly there's no reason not to and plenty of benefits to be had.


-FF

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: fastfred]
    #8159936 - 03/17/08 11:16 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

If you'd read this thread again, you'd see I think incubation works... but it isn't worth the effort for most growers... and it causes more harm than good for many n00bs. I bet 1/3 to 1/2 of all n00bs who fuck up... fuck up because of a shitty incubator.

I've been championing room temp since long before RR was a regular poster... room temp works fine. And it is way easier.

Gotta' go... Guiness is calling.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: Rose]
    #8161704 - 03/18/08 10:53 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

lol Carventes.

fastfred - 86F isn't the right incubation temperature though. Paul Stamets didn't write that nor now does he agree with it. He believes it's much much lower.

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: True Incubation Temps (moved) [Re: Roadkill]
    #8161726 - 03/18/08 10:58 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Roadkill said:
Time varies depending on what I'm inoculating with...
multi-spore, LC, agar wedges, or a G2G transfer.

and if I'm using grow bags or jars, and what size jars.

and even which kind of substrate I'm using.


tc




Multispore and a fast rhizo agar wedge

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