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Invisibleemeryg89
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Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary?
    #7864101 - 01/11/08 09:32 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Alright, so I know most people pasturize their casing mixes and manure... I'm wondering why?

I've searched around for answers on this forum and couldn't find anything directly related accept for a few reports that unpasturized manure or compost can work as long as it's not TOO moist. Any truth in this matter?

I've had dark sealed trashbags and bins of moist manure held for months without ever noticing any sort of contamination growing on them.

I've also held moistened vermiculite/coir in sealed bins for very extended periods of time with never any contamination at all.

It would seem to me that it wouldn't be all that necessary to pasturize the stuff as long as a fully colonized spawn was used so that bacteria wouldn't overtake any uncolonized spawn.

How would this not work?

Say I take a large batch of colonized spawn and dump it into a large trashbag of poo that shows no sign of contamination... shouldn't it colonize like normal? Is it even possible that the introduction of the spawn would somehow cause unseen fungi/bacteria to grow?

Okay, and then sen I had some fully colonized poo and I wanted to case with unpasturized coir/vermiculite that has absolutely no sign of contamination whatsoever aftering being moist and in a sealed container for a long time. If this was used to case a tray of colonized poo, why in the hell would it contaminate now if it never did before? The conditions would be relatively the same as they ever had been (high humidity area)... what could go wrong? If it was going to contaminate it surely would have already.


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary? [Re: emeryg89]
    #7864172 - 01/11/08 09:52 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

I have spawned wbs to weathered poo at a 1:2 ratio with success. The mcelium had a lot of metabolites sitting on the surface that I sucked up with a turkey baster daily.


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Invisibleemeryg89
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Re: Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary? [Re: Fraggin]
    #7864196 - 01/11/08 10:01 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Metabolites? Would you care to elaborate, I've never heard of this before... is it something that poses a threat to the health of the mycelium?


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Re: Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary? [Re: emeryg89]
    #7864212 - 01/11/08 10:05 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

As mycelium consumes food, they also excrete waste. The waste is referred to as metabolites. It servers a few purposes directly and indirectly. Metabolites can serve to further break down substrate into the correct consistencey of prepared food for the mycelium to digest. It is also assumed that metabolites are a way to fight off contamination and bacteria. It is not harmful to the mycelium in anyway unless there's an excess of it. In which case I was referring to. I suppose there was an excess of mycelium because of the amount of food available in the unpasturizes substrate that it needed to break down, as well as a lot of bacteria that it had to fight.


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Re: Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary? [Re: emeryg89]
    #7864229 - 01/11/08 10:09 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

emeryg89 said:


I've searched around for answers on this forum and couldn't find anything directly related accept for a few reports that unpasturized manure or compost can work as long as it's not TOO moist. Any truth in this matter?







yeah it can work...

as long as you don't mind having bugs in your manure and compost...

pasturizing kills off the majority of bugs.


nothing like having 40,000 plus gnats flying around your grow room...

if you ever get them...they are a bitch!~


tc


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PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Invisibleemeryg89
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Re: Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary? [Re: Roadkill]
    #7864267 - 01/11/08 10:18 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Okay so thanks for the help all! I however figured out that I was spelling pasteurized wrong, thus no good results when searching. I fixed the problem and got plenty of useful info... it sounds like it ought to work just fine... the bugs, ahh, I'm not too worried... it just so happens that the room in question is already rather infested with bugs from a plant greenhouse attempt, haha!

Okay, so I've got my answers for the poo... is it the same for a coir/vermiculite mix? I'm guessing so, since I've kept the shit moist in a tub for months and no contamination.. I use this same stuff off and on to clone plants with, reusing/recycling it each time... cloning in a high humidity/low air exchange environment and still no contams.


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Invisibleemeryg89
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Re: Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary? [Re: emeryg89]
    #7864275 - 01/11/08 10:20 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Kind of weird too, because I've read things about coir contaminating easy especially with excess moisture (which my coir has) and is a completely airtight sealed environment... at points it was recieving good heat that would've allowed any fungal/bacterial infection to thrive... but nothing.. Why's this so?


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Re: Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary? [Re: emeryg89]
    #7864289 - 01/11/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

The method in which coir is processed involves high heat and water saturation for long periods of time. I guess you could say it's an indirect way of pastuerizing coir from the beginning. Also, coir in it's natural environment has the purpose of fighting off invaders and protecting the fruit underneath, so I think it has a natural resistance to contamination up to a point. I have honestly never contaminated a coir grow. I don't know what it would take because it seems fairly forgiving. I've used it unpastuerized, pastuerized and sterilized. I've also used it to start seedlings and have never had any die from root rot.
So, I dunno, coir is just great.


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Invisibleemeryg89
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Re: Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary? [Re: Fraggin]
    #7864314 - 01/11/08 10:30 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Sweet, thanks! I also just found a few topics regarding that too, but you put it into better perspective, with actual grounds to base your opinion/methods on.

I also want to apologize for using the term pasteurized in regards to coir, because I realize most just sterilize their coir and not pasteurize (with some exceptions).

So to me, it seems that with the right materials (poo, coir, vermiculite) one could produce a decent setup with no pasturization/sterilization needed at all, well except whatever you'd be using as a spawn.

Thanks again!


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Pasturizing Poo and Coir Casings... Necessary? [Re: emeryg89]
    #7864419 - 01/11/08 10:57 AM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Alright, so I know most people pasturize their casing mixes and manure... I'm wondering why?





Why? That's easy. They pasteurise to kill all of the bad endospores and bacteria while leaving the good bacteria that aids in colonization, called "Fire-Fang". Do a search for it and you should find alot of info on it. Speaking of manure of course.

Quote:

Say I take a large batch of colonized spawn and dump it into a large trashbag of poo that shows no sign of contamination... shouldn't it colonize like normal? Is it even possible that the introduction of the spawn would somehow cause unseen fungi/bacteria to grow?




Yes, the manure contains fire-fang(Good bacteria) and it helps to keep the manure contam free, but when you add another food source the bad bacteria outgrows the good and wah-lah contaminates. I had a good pic of Fire-fang but I can't find it at the moment.

Quote:

Okay, and then sen I had some fully colonized poo and I wanted to case with unpasturized coir/vermiculite that has absolutely no sign of contamination whatsoever aftering being moist and in a sealed container for a long time. If this was used to case a tray of colonized poo, why in the hell would it contaminate now if it never did before?




Using unpasteurised/unsterilized coir is not a good idea. Some coir contains Trich(they add it purposely to aid in growth of plants) and when you use it un-treated it contams. I always treat mine(sterilize) before I use it just to play it safe. I have kept coir moist and seen no contams, but when added to a food source it will contam if not treated before hand-Coir comes from the manufacturer untreated and it contains who knows what(Endospores/bacteria) so when you add a food source contams(already in the coir) thrive in that invironement. Most people will flame me for saying this, but, Coir has very little nutrient value as a food source. It is used in the plant industry as a water retainer to help the soil mixes hold water(that's why it makes a good casing material).Coir is the outer husk of the Coconut seed pod that has been ground up-it can hold almost 10 times its size and weight in water, making it excellent for casings/bulk grows.
It will contam if you don't treat it.


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