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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
Hominid
Male


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Phil math problem
    #7860416 - 01/10/08 04:27 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Dividing one by zero is the same as dividing one by nothing at all.
Dividing by nothing is the same as not dividing.
One divided by zero equals one.


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OfflineTheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Phil math problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7860437 - 01/10/08 04:30 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

false


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
Hominid
Male


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: Phil math problem [Re: TheCow]
    #7860449 - 01/10/08 04:32 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

It's not a true or false question :wink:.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
Re: Phil math problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7860450 - 01/10/08 04:32 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

"Dividing by nothing is the same as not dividing."

Valid, but not sound.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Phil math problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7860474 - 01/10/08 04:37 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

No. 1/0 is undefined. It is a disallowed operation in (almost) all of mathematics because it is a meaningless concept. It's the math equivalent of the English sentence "How many specialty is your hair?"

Let me show you something that might make this clear:

Say you have 8 apples and 4 people and you need to divide the apples evenly among the people. You divide 8 apples by 4 people (8 / 4 = 2) and you end up giving each person 2 apples.

Say you have 8 apples and 2 people. Then it's 8 / 2 = 4. Each person gets 4 apples.

Say you have 8 apples and 1 person. Then it's 8 / 1 = 8. Each person gets 8 apples.

Now, say you have 8 apples and 0 people. How many apples does each person get?

The question is meaningless because it's asking how many apples each person gets, but there are no people. You can't say each person gets 0 because there are no people to whom you can give 0 or any other number of apples. The question is invalid.

The division by zero is also invalid.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Phil math problem [Re: xFrockx]
    #7860476 - 01/10/08 04:37 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Valid, but not sound

The sound is imaginary, you hear it in your head. Sound divided by imagination = 0. Simple.

Please send all your math problems to Mr. Wizard, aka Icelander.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/10/08 04:39 PM)


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
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Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Phil math problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7860541 - 01/10/08 04:48 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

If there was an apple.. And one divided it, by zero/'nothing at all', then there are no one/thing there to divide the apple between, thus the apple stays the same, and the division never occurs..

:grin::thumbup:


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
Hominid
Male


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: Phil math problem [Re: Diploid]
    #7860553 - 01/10/08 04:50 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

One divided by one is one. On divided by one half is two. One divided by one tenth is ten. 1/(1/100) = 100... As the divisor approaches zero, the quotient approaches infinity. Surely one divided by zero must equal infinity.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Phil math problem [Re: Gomp]
    #7860564 - 01/10/08 04:52 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

But the question isn't how many apple slices you end up with but how many of them each non-existing person gets.

It's meaningless to ask this. You can't give a non-existing person anything.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
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Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Phil math problem [Re: xFrockx]
    #7860577 - 01/10/08 04:53 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Dividing by zero is valid, it is just that it cannot occur! 
At least as an abstract thought? :crazy2:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Phil math problem [Re: Diploid]
    #7860582 - 01/10/08 04:54 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

You can't give a non-existing person anything.


You can give them your time and attention.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
Re: Phil math problem [Re: xFrockx]
    #7860600 - 01/10/08 04:59 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

someone took philosophy class!


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
Hominid
Male


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: Phil math problem [Re: Diploid]
    #7860612 - 01/10/08 05:02 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
But the question isn't how many apple slices you end up with but how many of them each non-existing person gets.





Does 1/(1/10) really mean that one tenth of one person is going to receive 100 slices of the apple?


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OfflineGomp
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Registered: 09/11/04
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Re: Phil math problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7860632 - 01/10/08 05:05 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

AnastomosisJihad said:
One divided by one is one. On divided by one half is two. One divided by one tenth is ten. 1/(1/100) = 100... As the divisor approaches zero, the quotient approaches infinity. Surely one divided by zero must equal infinity.




One apple, one man..

One apple to half a man, is still just one apple.

And so on..

Why do you not use an example instead of numbers?

Or, let's see If I can use something else. One thing, divided by another thing, could be one thing.. One thing divided by one half of a thing, can be two.. But, as soon as one divide any one thing, with no other thing, then the division never occurs. Thus there is no division.. No division means that one divided by zero, never can be. Only they very act of dividing something with nothing...

It is an interesting place to be. It is kind of like a snake, shitting itself out, full circle.. :p


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Phil math problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7860637 - 01/10/08 05:05 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Surely one divided by zero must equal infinity.

Infinity is not a number. It's a concept.

What you're describing is called a Limit in math. It's taught in second year algebra or pre-calculus.

Think of it this way. Take any number and double it. Then double the result. Keep doing this. You can't do this infinitely many times, not even in principle, because no matter how many times you do it, you will ALWAYS be able to do it again.

See? There is no such number called 'infinity' at which you finally reached the end and can't keep doubling your number. It's a concept, not a number so nothing can "equal infinity".

What you CAN say is this: 1/x approaches zero as x approaches infinity. x can never actually reach infinity because again, it's a concept not a number.

This is written formally as:

Code:

lim 1/x = 0
x -> ∞



How much math have you taken in school? From your question, I think you'd enjoy calculus.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Phil math problem [Re: Icelander]
    #7860641 - 01/10/08 05:07 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You can't give a non-existing person anything.


You can give them your time and attention.




For once it seems some humor made a valid point! :tongue2:


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
Re: Phil math problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7860645 - 01/10/08 05:08 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_by_zero

everything you ever wanted to know.

i would post stuff, but it's all in the wiki.


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
Hominid
Male


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: Phil math problem [Re: Diploid]
    #7860666 - 01/10/08 05:12 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

So you agree with Gomp that it is not possible to divide by zero? If you take one thing and try to divide it by zero, nothing will happen because it is not possible to divide by zero, therefore you will be left with the same thing you started with.

1/0=1


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
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Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Phil math problem [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7860668 - 01/10/08 05:12 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Another way to look at it is to divide zero by zero, and see what one ends up with..

Be it the division, alone?


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Phil math problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7860669 - 01/10/08 05:13 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

One divided by one is one. On divided by one half is two. One divided by one tenth is ten. 1/(1/100) = 100... As the divisor approaches zero, the quotient approaches infinity. Surely one divided by zero must equal infinity.

By that reasoning, 1 / -1 must equal greater than infinity, which is wrong.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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