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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown



Registered: 10/16/07
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casing grain?
#7859508 - 01/10/08 01:31 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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normally I 'noc up Hpoo pans with my colonized grain. I just bought that mushroom handbook and they are suggesting laying out the grain and straight up casing that. Anyone have experience with this method?
-------------------- Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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trippindad82
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Re: casing grain? [Re: resptodd]
#7859518 - 01/10/08 01:33 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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You can do it and get some monster fruits, however, the grain doesn't really hold much moisture, so it can't really produce as much.
-------------------- Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to blind person who has never seen a horse. ^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^ --------------------------------------
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doc34
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Re: casing grain? [Re: resptodd]
#7859550 - 01/10/08 01:39 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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You don't want to use grain alone. You want to add a layer that acts as a foundation to hold up the fruitbodies and give them the area needed to build up their mycelial matt to support a flush of fruits.- usually a non-nutrient layer. If it were me I would case using coir.
The pics in my sig was straight WBS cased with 100% coir.
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Nebula
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Quote:
trippindad82 said: You can do it and get some monster fruits, however, the grain doesn't really hold much moisture, so it can't really produce as much.
Sure this goes for pans as well? I haven't seen a tek on pans without manure.
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown



Registered: 10/16/07
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Loc: Michigan
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Re: casing grain? [Re: Nebula]
#7859728 - 01/10/08 02:08 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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This is something I just read. I might give it a try with just 1 pan see what happens. But on the whole I'll stick with using grain to 'noc up Hpoo. I was just curious as to if any one has tried it.
-------------------- Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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poot
bottom feeder



Registered: 11/24/07
Posts: 212
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Re: casing grain? [Re: resptodd]
#7859908 - 01/10/08 02:37 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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if you case the grain on its own you'll get smaller fruits than a cased bulk sub. youll prob grow a lot of pans that way, but theyll be so small that when theyre dry youll have an 8th of puny mushies.
-------------------- possibly the last post of mine.
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Captain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
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Re: casing grain? [Re: poot]
#7859987 - 01/10/08 02:52 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Damn Doc, if you can get results from WBS and coir, well, it don't get simpler than that!
No peat, no verm, no gypsum, no oyster flour.
If I posted that people would say I am crazy, and that straight WBS and coir casing is lame, trust me.
Glad they respect ya Doc.
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Captain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: casing grain? [Re: doc34]
#7859999 - 01/10/08 02:54 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
doc34 said: If it were me I would case using coir.
The pics in my sig was straight WBS cased with 100% coir.
Have you ever tried tried 50/50+, do you say coir is superior to 50/50+, or just much easier?
Your straight WBS, have you ever mixed it with coir 1 to 4 ala a bulk sub?
How many flushes do you get Doc?
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MYSTIQUE
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Its been said many times that straight coir is fine and it will flush well even without a caseing layer. Also the reason doc can say that is he has pictures to back it up.
-------------------- Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat, DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!
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Captain Cubensis
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Re: casing grain? [Re: MYSTIQUE]
#7860039 - 01/10/08 03:03 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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True, but I got slammed for suggesting coir does not need a casing.
Isn't Doc's straight WBS as well, something that "shouldn't work well"
Truth is I used to be all about the easiest, simplest ways, but you will get slammed for challenging dogma here.
Its been said many times that straight coir is fine and it will flush well even without a casing layer. Also the reason doc can say that is he has pictures to back it up. -MYSTIQUE
True, but pictures of illegal things are not the smartest files to permanently add to the world wide web with your name and computer addy also permanently attached to that file.
Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/10/08 03:13 PM)
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poot
bottom feeder



Registered: 11/24/07
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yeah seriously, if you stray from the current they will hang you in the public forum. i just ate some food, and now i am full, so meaning this, you can always count on the very most honest of chosen pickles amonsgt a hoarde of others right? i mean, to see it coming would not even make you realize, it right? shit, man.
-------------------- possibly the last post of mine.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: casing grain? [Re: poot]
#7860121 - 01/10/08 03:17 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
poot said: if you case the grain on its own you'll get smaller fruits than a cased bulk sub. youll prob grow a lot of pans that way, but theyll be so small that when theyre dry youll have an 8th of puny mushies.
Not quite. It's hard to beat cased grains. I've seen some HUGE fruits from it. Grains, especially rye, are far more nutritious then any bulk substrate. We use grains to inoculate large amounts of bulk substrate, making the total harvest larger if you have the room for it all. However, in a given sized tray, you'll have a hard time beating cased grains, by using cased manure.
Quote:
Isn't Doc's straight WBS as well, something that "shouldn't work well"
Corrrect. Wbs, rye, corn, wheat, etc., do not perform well at all when left uncased. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Nibin
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Registered: 11/29/05
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
poot said: if you case the grain on its own you'll get smaller fruits than a cased bulk sub. youll prob grow a lot of pans that way, but theyll be so small that when theyre dry youll have an 8th of puny mushies.
Not quite. It's hard to beat cased grains. I've seen some HUGE fruits from it. Grains, especially rye, are far more nutritious then any bulk substrate. We use grains to inoculate large amounts of bulk substrate, making the total harvest larger if you have the room for it all. However, in a given sized tray, you'll have a hard time beating cased grains, by using cased manure.
Quote:
Isn't Doc's straight WBS as well, something that "shouldn't work well"
Corrrect. Wbs, rye, corn, wheat, etc., do not perform well at all when left uncased. RR
I'm still not sure if they mean Pans as in Pan. Cyan. or pan as in a tray to put stuff in.
If it is Pan. Cyan. This is what the FAQ says.
Quote:
You can fruit them on straight rye grain, but the resulting shrooms will be very small and difficult to harvest and print. Hundreds of very small shrooms. Wall to wall flushes with 100+ shrooms yielding about 1-2 grams dry. Shroom size is 1-3 inch tall with caps under 1/4 inch(usually about 1/8 inch). 1 inch substrate layer in a 8" x 8" brownie pan, cased with peat/perlite at less then 1/4 inch. You would be better off using the rye grain spawn to inoculate jars of manure based substrates. THE USE of Manure or manure straw DRASTICALLY increases yield(approx. 7-14 times the yield) and decreases contamination rate, speed to flush, and just about everything else.
Is that correct RR¿?
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doc34
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Quote:
Have you ever tried tried 50/50+, do you say coir is superior to 50/50+, or just much easier?
I find it to be both, much easier and superior, but hey, what works for some doesn't always work for others-thats where the debate about coir comes in-some people like it and some don't.
Quote:
Your straight WBS, have you ever mixed it with coir 1 to 4 ala a bulk sub?
Yes and I liked the results, but coir is a bit too expensive for me to use as a bulk substrate, straw though is alot cheaper and I find that coir is much better as a casing layer than a bulk substrate. I have tried just about every thing you can possibly imagine concerning mushrooms, especially different variations of substrates and casing layers and I have found my "Cream-o-the-crop" in my coir.
Quote:
[How many flushes do you get Doc? /quote]
On average? About 3-4, but i don't usually let mine go that far as it is not worth the effort and space to get just a few grams going for a fourth or fifth flush, when you can introduce a new casing in its place and WHAM!!
Quote:
True, but pictures of illegal things are not the smartest files to permanently add to the world wide web with your name and computer addy also permanently attached to that file.
Can you prove beyond a resonable doubt that those mushrooms in my pics are illegal mushrooms?
Most of my old photos and grows were done with coir and WBS only. There may be a few using verm and peat but mostly coir.
WBS works great as a substrate by itself if it is cased with a casing layer. Most grains are like that.
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown



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Loc: Michigan
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Re: casing grain? [Re: Nibin]
#7860279 - 01/10/08 03:52 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Ummm, I seem to have lost track of this post. So the census is now--it may be OK to straight-up case the colonized grain and get a good flush with nice sized fruits.
-------------------- Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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doc34
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Re: casing grain? [Re: resptodd]
#7860292 - 01/10/08 03:55 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Yes
Edit = If you add a casing layer to it.
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Nibin
Getting there



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Re: casing grain? [Re: doc34]
#7860302 - 01/10/08 03:58 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
doc34 said: Yes
Edit = If you add a casing layer to it.
Are we talking P. Cubensis or Pan Cyan? Coz someone asked about pans, and still hasn't cleared up which.
I have read in the FAQ and on here that Pans from cased grains are very small and light. (read my previous post).
If it is cubes on the other hand, cased grain works just fine.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: casing grain? [Re: Nibin]
#7860317 - 01/10/08 04:03 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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I can't answer that. I've only grown pan cyan on cased manure. Cubensis does great on cased rye. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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doc34
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Re: casing grain? [Re: Nibin]
#7860322 - 01/10/08 04:04 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
normally I 'noc up Hpoo pans with my colonized grain.
I assumed he was talking about pans of hpoo and colonized grain, where does Panaleuos(SP?) specie come into the picture?
No one mentioned Pan cyans, copes or subs---am I missing something? If I am, I am totally sorry for posting misinformation.
If thats the picture then no, you need cow or horse manure for them to fruit.
WTF?
edit=Quote:
If thats the picture then no, you need cow or horse manure for them to fruit.
For them to fruit well that is.
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown



Registered: 10/16/07
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Re: casing grain? [Re: doc34]
#7860359 - 01/10/08 04:18 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Sorry guys-clear up- I was talking about pans of Hpoo. The 'shrooms I'm working with are 'cubes. Please accept my apologies for the confusion.
-------------------- Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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doc34
Fungitarian



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Re: casing grain? [Re: resptodd]
#7860391 - 01/10/08 04:24 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Nibin ------->shut-up,lol J/K!
You had me all bumbled up,lol.;)
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown



Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Michigan
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Re: casing grain? [Re: resptodd]
#7861158 - 01/10/08 07:22 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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OK, hears where I need help then. I am going to go ahead and straight-up case some colonized grain. When I transfer the grain to a pan the myc is going to need time to regroup, should I apply the casing mix right away or give the grain some time?
-------------------- Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: casing grain? [Re: resptodd]
#7861267 - 01/10/08 07:44 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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There's always been a lot of debate, with growers doing it both ways. My preference is to apply the casing at the time you spawn the grains into the tray. This way, as the mycelium knits itself back together, it also begins to colonize the casing layer. However, many growers let the mycelium on the grains recover for a few days, and then add the casing layer. Either way will work. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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doc34
Fungitarian



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Re: casing grain? [Re: resptodd]
#7861277 - 01/10/08 07:46 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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I also case mine as soon as I spawn the grains just as Roger said.
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown



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Re: casing grain? [Re: doc34]
#7861345 - 01/10/08 08:00 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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doc34, how can one deny the pix, I'll case right away.
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doc34
Fungitarian



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Re: casing grain? [Re: resptodd]
#7861895 - 01/10/08 09:27 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Here is the link to thread where those pics were originally posted
Enjoy
PESA and CAMBOS
Have fun with your grows
Doc
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Insomniac2100
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Re: casing grain? [Re: doc34]
#7863013 - 01/11/08 12:31 AM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Sounds easy enough to try. I'm going to order some of the bags of rye, and a verm/coir mixture to case.
Doc, what was the depth of your WBS and Coir casing?
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doc34
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WBS = 2-3"deep Coir = 1/4" for every inch of WBS
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