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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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In the mean time will you get me a beer?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: What is enlightenment? [Re: Icelander]
#7864138 - 01/11/08 09:43 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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I thought you were going to congratulate me on being humble 
Humbleness is not weakness! I am a warrior too!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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If you need congrats then it is not humility. But you took a step in the right direction by bowing to my superior wisdom.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: What is enlightenment? [Re: Icelander]
#7864166 - 01/11/08 09:51 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Because my humbleness was not rewarded I shall never back down from an argument again
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 24 days, 9 hours
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Re: What is enlightenment? [Re: Icelander]
#7864173 - 01/11/08 09:52 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
If he's talking about the Buddha, then that's just bullshit. He set the precedent of allowing women to be initiated. At first he wouldn't let them, but he was eventually convinced by Ananda. Hence today there are monks and nuns.
I lifted this from my other thread on Buddha. I've been thinking about this.
A lot of people equate enlightenment with some above average humanity. I really don't think so myself and the above quote is why.
Now here's the Buddha who has recently become enlightened by tremendous personal effort over many years of contemplation, meditation and experience . Yet he had a bias against women that had to be overcome by the arguments of another. Now I would think that allowing women to be nuns (with all the ramifications of that action) would be a no brainer. But not for him. He had to overcome lots of resistance and ignorance in himself.
So what is enlightenment?
Buddha had to start with something people could understand. No vagabond would take women on the road. It wasn't until enough women made for having an official womens order that Buddha conceeded that it was needed.
-------------------- ...or something
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is enlightenment? [Re: eve69]
#7864178 - 01/11/08 09:55 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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No vagabond would take women on the road. The Icelander does. Especially pretty ones.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 24 days, 9 hours
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Re: What is enlightenment? [Re: eve69]
#7864180 - 01/11/08 09:57 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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the world could blow apart in a fiction worthy wind it wouldn't mean a thing now that you're here...
-------------------- ...or something
Edited by eve69 (01/11/08 10:08 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: Because my humbleness was not rewarded I shall never back down from an argument again
Well now that isn't very Buddha like, is it? But here is a more honest feeling from you as you really are in your humanity (at least in part) and I do honor that.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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machination
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Hringhorni
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Re: What is enlightenment? [Re: Icelander]
#7864223 - 01/11/08 10:08 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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zhuman eyez
"the middle way"
theres a light on in the attic dear eliza
-------------------- "Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."
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psyka
Praetorian


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: What is enlightenment? [Re: Icelander]
#7864337 - 01/11/08 10:35 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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In each action you do, a degree of selfishness and a degree of selflessness exists. It doesn't revolve around you unless you think it does.
And the post is titled what is enlightenment? The answer is neither subjective or objective, however I was giving you my conditioned opinion. What did you expect? A factual statistic?
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.

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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is enlightenment? [Re: psyka]
#7864508 - 01/11/08 11:19 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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a degree of selfishness and a degree of selflessness
You need to provide one example of selflessness for me to accept that as a possibility. No one has done that yet.
The answer is neither subjective or objective,
Now you really have me confused.
What did you expect? A factual statistic?
Just some logical debate although facts never hurt.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: What is enlightenment? [Re: Icelander]
#7866903 - 01/11/08 09:35 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I think it would be possible to base our actions on something which doesn't adhere to human logic.
Impossible my friend and you can't give me one example of it.
My last post demonstrated to the best of my ability the fallacy of your position. You would never open a window for someone if you didn't consider it "the thing to do" as you say. How about I ask you to kill someone. Will you just do that also?
nothing we do is based upon LOGIC everything we do is associative - memory and training in response to signals and triggers. LOGIC is not associative it is rules based- it is a fallacy to imagine we are rules based.
even our morality is associative. associative processing is the essence of archetypes. this with that, not this because of that.
of course, many pretend to be logical, we have excellent role models who are great reasoners (they put on a very dignified show) mostly in literature or television like sherlock holmes and Mr. Spock.
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