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TylerDurden
I sell soap


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 169
Loc: 1537 Paper St.
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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deleted
#7855317 - 01/09/08 06:43 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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deleted
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Edited by TylerDurden (02/21/08 02:43 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Remove the foil after sterilization. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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TylerDurden
I sell soap


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 169
Loc: 1537 Paper St.
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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deleted
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Edited by TylerDurden (02/21/08 02:45 PM)
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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I disagree. Foil is your dust cover which prevents contam filled dust from settling into your jars.
In the case of a filter it prevents contams from settling on your filter, germinating, and then growing through the filter.
There is no advantage to removing it. CO2 diffuses quite rapidly and anything short of an airtight barrier is going to have the same gas exchange rate.
-FF
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blood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
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Re: foil on rye jars [Re: fastfred]
#7856201 - 01/09/08 09:22 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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unless your filter is wet there is no way germs are going to get into your filter and germinate.
i second taking the foil off.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Quote:
blood4blood said: unless your filter is wet there is no way germs are going to get into your filter and germinate.
Your jars have a high moisture content and respiring myc. The filter will be damp at least on one side and that is enough.
I've explained why you should leave it on, so unless you have a good reason to take it off then you're just taking chances for no reason.
-FF
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: foil on rye jars [Re: fastfred]
#7856701 - 01/09/08 10:46 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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I very strongly disagree. After making up thousands of jars and doing it both ways, I know which one gives a lower contamination rate. Having a dry filter is extremely important for it to work properly. If you put the filter over the lid, and the lid only has four small holes for gas exchange, the filter will be dry.
If you leave the foil on, the filter will be damp. Dust isn't our enemy with grain jars, bacteria is. A wet filter will allow bacteria that is in the air to colonize right through the filter material. Gasses will exchange either way, but keeping the filter dry is more important than dust, which is too large to penetrate the filter anyway, provided it's dry. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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I have seen foil or coffee filters as dust covers but have never used them.I use tyvek and inoculate right through it and cover the hole with alcohol soaked micopore tape
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: foil on rye jars [Re: Blutjager]
#7857610 - 01/10/08 02:29 AM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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> I very strongly disagree.
I see your point, and I stand corrected with respect to using a filter. I've always seen filters as rather worthless. A foil top works as good as a filter without the hassle and without the worry of a damp and potentially rotting filter to contam your culture.
People just don't seem to appreciate the utility of a foil cover. But it's standard practice in the lab to cover everything with foil. With cotton, polyfill, or foam plugs you still cover them with foil. Test tubes/slants are sometimes plugged without a foil cover, but that's kind of old school.
It's hard to keep up with all the various methods people are using but thanks for clarifying the issues with respect to filters.
-FF
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