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OfflineSupplier
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Registered: 01/05/08
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help with casing
    #7853352 - 01/09/08 12:24 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Ok i am looking for a decent/easy casing tek and i also need some opinions on what ever use give me. i am use to cakes and pretty much a noob at casing ( will be first one) so any takers?


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Offlineendepth
The world remains ever the same.


Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 647
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853359 - 01/09/08 12:26 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

My advice is to use the search function. Please stop posting false info, and starting new threads on subjects that have been covered 24234234 times. :rolleyes:


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853362 - 01/09/08 12:27 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

50/50+

half peat, half verm, buffered to a pH of 8 using Oyster Flour.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7545028&page=0&vc=1#Post7545028


--------------------
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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7853384 - 01/09/08 12:33 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

ok well once again im a noob at casings and endepth i posted here because i want opinions FROM PPL not a search engine k? now captain how do u check the ph levels of the substrate? and do u do this when u are first mixing it?


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Offlineendepth
The world remains ever the same.


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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853393 - 01/09/08 12:36 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Plenty of peoples opinions and casing techniques have been posted here. Quit being lazy.

Leaving this thread now.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853395 - 01/09/08 12:36 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Supplier said:
OK well once again I'm a noob at casings and en depth i posted here because i want opinions FROM PPL not a search engine k? now captain how do u check the pH levels of the substrate? and do u do this when u are first mixing it?




Get some pH test strips, or a Kelway, which is what farmers use.

Most garden supply stores carry pH kits, Hydroponic stores do.

You usually add about 10% oyster, hydrate, then let it sit for a few hours, to do it's magic.

The oyster is for the peat, which is way to acidic, and needs to be buffered to help prevent contams.


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InvisibleDontPlay
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Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853396 - 01/09/08 12:36 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Well you did ask for an easy tek, then asked for ppls opinions. Anyway start with something easy like the 50/50 that CC said. There is a few teks that will explain how to do so. You can just go buy a bag of jiffy mix from a hardware or gardening supply store.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: help with casing [Re: endepth]
    #7853400 - 01/09/08 12:37 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

endepth said:
Plenty of peoples opinions and casing techniques have been posted here. Quit being lazy.

Leaving this thread now.




Really, find me 3 links to good casing teks then Endepth.


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Offlineendepth
The world remains ever the same.


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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7853414 - 01/09/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Quote:

endepth said:
Plenty of peoples opinions and casing techniques have been posted here. Quit being lazy.

Leaving this thread now.




Really, find me 3 links to good casing teks then Endepth.




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3290155/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1308057/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/565456/an/0/page/0

wow... that was hard y0. :thumbdown:


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7853419 - 01/09/08 12:41 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

jesus it seems like ever other post someone has to be an ass. if i wanted to do a search for casings i would of done that but i want ppls own opinion and meathod of casings they liked and got good results from. and thank you captain.


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Invisiblepoot
bottom feeder
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853429 - 01/09/08 12:43 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

this is what got me started even though it cases with coir:
http://www.shroomery.org/8432/From-syringe-to-print-using-rye

once having that down i now am trying bulk coir with nitrogen additives and proper 50/50 casings.

for ph i use test strips by sqeezing the small amount of water in the casing soil over the strip to read the ph.


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: poot]
    #7853441 - 01/09/08 12:45 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

will the simple pool ph kits work? it's like a bottle of ph strips.


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Invisiblepoot
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853475 - 01/09/08 12:51 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

yeah they should, the ones i use are multi-strips for like ph amonia etc. and they make you compare to a colored chart. basically you dont have to be right on, but its nice to see an estimate and know your ph is higher and less acidic. you can get a bottle of 25 multi-strips at walmart's aquarium section for around 10$


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: poot]
    #7853487 - 01/09/08 12:53 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

yea my grandmother has an extra bottle of the same ones.


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Invisiblepoot
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853520 - 01/09/08 01:00 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

they should work fine then. are you going to do the 50/50 casing tek?


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Offlineresptodd
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Re: help with casing [Re: poot]
    #7853582 - 01/09/08 01:14 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Hey, the forums are here for a reason. People seeking help should be able to get it right off without any harassment. I dealt with the same sarcasm when I first came onboard. If you are unwilling to help, don't respond- EZ 'nuff. Casing did not come easy for me, I use a 50/50+ mix, but I read alot of cultivators are using Miracle Grow Moisture Control with good results. MGMC no worries about pH, just bring to field capacity, pasteurize, and case.


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: resptodd]
    #7853640 - 01/09/08 01:24 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Thank you resptodd very much atleast someone agrees. and yes i am gunna do a 50/50 with oyster or im gunna do an easy verm/perlite casing like don'tplay is doing atm in a small tin tray. i think im going to use 2-3 cakes for the casing. i just need to get the hole thing down pact. so pretty much my frist one will be the verm/perlite. im gunna mix it up steam it since i have no pcer for about 90 mins. but what im confused on is when to do the layering. should i sterilize my first layer of 50/50 then put the broken up cakes then do a this layer of the 50/50 again. then throw it in a ziplock and put it in the dark till i see patches of myc.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: help with casing [Re: resptodd]
    #7853656 - 01/09/08 01:29 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Just remember that the forum rules state:


Quote:

Please read the Shroomery Cultivation FAQ before asking questions in this forum...many of the answers are already in the Shroomery Cultivation FAQ.

In addition to this the Shroomery Grow Section offers probably more information than you will ever need.




It isn't the fact that people ask questions that pisses them off it is questions like yours in which you want people do do your research for you.

If on the other hand you had asked:

Hey! I have been reading casing teks and can't make my mind up. Is there anything better than 50/50? Can I use coir for my casing?

You would have got a lot more answers and people wouldn't have told you off.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853665 - 01/09/08 01:30 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

No need with strips, If you use the right ratio of lime you'll be fine ... AND....you don't even need to heat treat a 50/50 peat moss/vermiculite casing IF you use Non-Dolomite low magnesium Lime


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: Nibin]
    #7853666 - 01/09/08 01:30 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

ok i understand that and i did read up. but i wanted ppls opinions on what they liked best and what they got the best results from.


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Invisiblepoot
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853707 - 01/09/08 01:38 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

if you itch your ass you will smell poot. same with the search buttons. i use them, and i smell poot. so smell on smellies!


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Offlineendepth
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Re: help with casing [Re: Nibin]
    #7853710 - 01/09/08 01:39 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Nibin said:
Just remember that the forum rules state:


Quote:

Please read the Shroomery Cultivation FAQ before asking questions in this forum...many of the answers are already in the Shroomery Cultivation FAQ.

In addition to this the Shroomery Grow Section offers probably more information than you will ever need.




It isn't the fact that people ask questions that pisses them off it is questions like yours in which you want people do do your research for you.

If on the other hand you had asked:

Hey! I have been reading casing teks and can't make my mind up. Is there anything better than 50/50? Can I use coir for my casing?

You would have got a lot more answers and people wouldn't have told you off.




Exactly... People expect to be spoonfed, and it is VERY frustrating.

I made my first casing ever last night, and I haven't needed to start a thread. Every question I have had, was answered in less than 5 minutes by searching. READ READ READ! The info you seek is here. :smile:


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Edited by endepth (01/09/08 01:42 PM)


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Invisiblepoot
bottom feeder
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Registered: 11/24/07
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Re: help with casing [Re: endepth]
    #7853718 - 01/09/08 01:40 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

spoon feeding is easier than breast feeding dude:thumbup:


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: endepth]
    #7853722 - 01/09/08 01:41 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

if it's soooo frustrating then why are u wasting your time posting here? your only gunna make yourself more frustrated?


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InvisibleDontPlay
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Re: help with casing [Re: endepth]
    #7853727 - 01/09/08 01:42 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Okay I think he gets the point. The first time I understand you saying something but to keep stompin on him is unnecessary. There are wayy more people than just him who do this. Granted alot of people don't read up and ask to be spoonfed right away you can just ignore them. Supplier simply did not word his question correctly.


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Invisiblemrwindowz
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Re: help with casing [Re: DontPlay]
    #7853753 - 01/09/08 01:46 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

So much hostility. I thought that is what forums were for... asking questions and receiving answers. Let the people that want to help Supplier help him and those that don't, then just ignore him if it really upsets you that much.


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: DontPlay]
    #7853754 - 01/09/08 01:47 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

thank you don'tplay. exactly what i did wrong. DID NOT WORD IT CORRECTLY!


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InvisibleDontPlay
Yeah Science!
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853785 - 01/09/08 01:51 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Anyway, You should try and turn this thread back into what it was for. Try knocking up some grain jars then while they are colonizing decide exactly what casing you will use. Or try a few different kind at the same time if you have room in your setup for it.


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I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. 
    Hunter S. Thompson



I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.
~Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblepoot
bottom feeder
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853786 - 01/09/08 01:52 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

mrwindowz im gonna give you 5 shrooms for that statement. such truth.


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: poot]
    #7853816 - 01/09/08 01:55 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

yea i was thinking about doing the don'tplay but i would have to search more about grain casings or w.e. and if u can please answer the post i just put in your brf post it will be much appriciated u kinda confused me when u said u didn't bake or pc your verm


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OfflineNibin
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853851 - 01/09/08 02:01 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Supplier said:
ok i understand that and i did read up. but i wanted ppls opinions on what they liked best and what they got the best results from.




Just remember to actually prove in your posts that you have done some research.

Even if it is just for the rules sake. I know it isn't your fault (and maybe not your case) but it can get very frustrating to see people every day that post stuff like Hey! I want to grow mushrooms what should I do?, when all the info is on the main site (not to mention the search engine)


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Offlineoysterguy63
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7853875 - 01/09/08 02:05 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

I am going to step up and say I see both sides.  There frequently does seem to be someone coming into many a thread being less than respectful....but the folks that are telling you the information is here are just trying to keep from retyping the same darn thing they have typed 150 times.  Thus, while it is easier for YOU to ask a question here and be answered rather than search...it remains hard on those that take the time to provide it.  That being said, while I am not exactly a seasoned respected member on the site, I have put many of the different teks into practice successfully and have experienced success pretty consistently....so if you ever have a question and you want to pm me...feel free.  :smile:


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: oysterguy63]
    #7853898 - 01/09/08 02:09 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

thank you very much oyster and i will keep it in mind.and once again Thank You!


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
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Re: help with casing [Re: endepth]
    #7854050 - 01/09/08 02:38 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

endepth said:
Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Quote:

endepth said:
Plenty of peoples opinions and casing techniques have been posted here. Quit being lazy.

Leaving this thread now.




Really, find me 3 links to good casing teks then Endepth.




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3290155/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1308057/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/565456/an/0/page/0

wow... that was hard y0. :thumbdown:




The last two are not good casing teks because they advocate the use of coir in the casing layer, something widely accepted as foolish.

Hyphae's is the only good one I could find as well.


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Offlineendepth
The world remains ever the same.


Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 647
Loc: Cloud 9
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7854195 - 01/09/08 03:07 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Quote:

endepth said:
Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Quote:

endepth said:
Plenty of peoples opinions and casing techniques have been posted here. Quit being lazy.

Leaving this thread now.




Really, find me 3 links to good casing teks then Endepth.




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3290155/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1308057/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/565456/an/0/page/0

wow... that was hard y0. :thumbdown:




The last two are not good casing teks because they advocate the use of coir in the casing layer, something widely accepted as foolish.

Hyphae's is the only good one I could find as well.




We could run in circles all day arguing about that comment... Let's just leave it be and move on.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Re: help with casing [Re: endepth]
    #7854242 - 01/09/08 03:17 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

"We could run in circles all day arguing about that comment... Let's just leave it be and move on. "
-Endepth

But you still haven't found three good casing teks man, you told him to search for casing teks, yet 2 out of 3 that you found are obsolete.


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Offlineendepth
The world remains ever the same.


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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7854250 - 01/09/08 03:19 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

They aren't good IN YOUR OPINION. I know several people who have had good success with coir. I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread now, because I'm sick of bickering with you. Have a good day.

</drama>


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: help with casing [Re: endepth]
    #7854263 - 01/09/08 03:22 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Hahaha :laugh: i love society now a days! it just brings a smile to my face :]


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InvisibleDontPlay
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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7854370 - 01/09/08 03:41 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

You guys are again, hijacking his thread and dragging this pointless crap out. I agree that Captain is wrong about coir a lot of people use it and I have seen plenty of successful grows with it. I also found plenty of good casing threads by the way. If your looking up just Casing Tek's than that's the problem.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Re: help with casing [Re: DontPlay]
    #7854389 - 01/09/08 03:45 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Yes, you are right, you can get good casing information if you sift through the BS. I meant a link to ONE POST that contained a good casing tek.

Coir works in casing because you don't even have to case to get fruits.

Coir is second to hpoo in mushy nutrients, and since nutritious materials are not recommended for a casing layer, well, you can follow the logic.


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InvisibleDontPlay
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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7854474 - 01/09/08 03:56 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Okay so are you trying to say that anyone who uses it is wrong ? Casing is a good idea to hold in moisture, you might not need it but it's better than nothing. Coir holds moisture what ? No wayyy


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Edited by DontPlay (01/09/08 04:10 PM)


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Re: help with casing [Re: DontPlay]
    #7854566 - 01/09/08 04:08 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/55/60-40-Vermiculite-and-Coco-Coir-Casing-Tek

used this one for years always worked great... as far as the misting goes.... i wouldn't concern myself with too much.... if the sides look dry mist them... if it don't.then don't mist. couple sprays two feet over the casing once a day....but if it looks too wet then don't you have to gain an eye for these things...it is really hard for someone to actually tell you. just like the how wet should my casing be before i use? the only way i have ever been able to tell this is by squeezing the water should drizzle out of ur hands not pour


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Re: help with casing [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #7854603 - 01/09/08 04:17 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

just want to add with the tek listed above don't worry urself with ph adjust.. done it like 5o times and never adjusted the ph


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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7854912 - 01/09/08 05:15 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Yes, you are right, you can get good casing information if you sift through the BS. I meant a link to ONE POST that contained a good casing tek.

Coir works in casing because you don't even have to case to get fruits.

Coir is second to hpoo in mushy nutrients, and since nutritious materials are not recommended for a casing layer, well, you can follow the logic.




Coir works as casing because it has kick ass water retention capabilities and texture. It has the con though that it is nutritional, which is why peat is better as it holds lots of water like coir and has a great texture also but isn't nutritional.

It isn't just because cubes can grow uncased. Coir works as a casing layer but others are far superior, that's it. Nothing more, nothing less.


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Re: help with casing [Re: Nibin]
    #7855199 - 01/09/08 06:16 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

I'm also a believer in peat/verm casings. I tried coir when everybody else was raving about it, but coir works far better in the substrate than in casings.
RR 04/05/05

This is my first and last try using coir. I don't like the way it colonizes like a substrate and overlays in the fruiting chamber. I lightly scratched and patched the coir side, but it is already starting to overlay again. I do have pins now, but the set isn't great. It looks like it will overlay by the next flush, so I just might let it do that and fruit it like a big substrate block. I will not use coir again for casing cubes.
-Blue Helix 04/03/04

I've always recommended peat/verm for casing. It's just that so many people are 'set' on using coir, that I grew tired of always saying it sucks as a casing, rather than a substrate. If it's mixed 60/40 or 70/30 verm-coir it will work, although not as well as a non-nutritious casing such as peat will. For those of you who were around then, I was the first person to say coir is a substrate material and not well suited for casing unless massively diluted with vermiculite. Until then, everybody seemed to repeat the lie that coir has no 'nutes'. In fact, saying that coir is better suited as a substrate than a casing material led to me getting banned from one of the other mushroom boards for being on a 'jihad' against coir and popcorn spawn.
RR 11/03/06

I'm a peat based man through and through.
-Hyphae 04/01/05

50/peat - 40/verm - 10/coir (Ph adjusted peat - of course)
-Agar 04/16/05

You are 100% backwards. Coco coir is for substrates. Peat moss is for casing.
-Monstermitch 09/16/06

Peat + verm- IMO this is the best mix. You get the fluffiness of the peat with the water retention of the verm. Only downside, and it's not a big one, is the semi need for calcium carbonate to balance the PH of the peat since it's acidic. However if you're only in it for a flush or two you can ignore that (i do, and i get great harvests from a 5lb casing). Verm- Verm will do in a pinch if for some reason peat isn't available. It provides great water retention and no other additives to balance out the PH. The only problem is that it tends to compact which is counterproductive in cultivation. When working with straight verm i suggest going on the sparser side and create a thin layer. Coir- IMO coir makes a better substrate then a casing layer.
-Coda 08/16/07

You don't want nutes in the casing layer.
-Hyphae 07/04/07

The only draw back to the Verm/Coco Coir casing is...that you need to fruit it before the mycelium breaks the surface of the casing layer.
If you wait too long to fruit...the mycelium will grow through the casing layer too quickly and you will have to patch the casing layer...and if you don't patch it, you might get a bad pinset.
-Roadkill 04/14/05


Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/09/08 06:27 PM)


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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855277 - 01/09/08 06:33 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Yes, so as I said, it works, but there are much better materials for your casing.

I wasn't saying that people should use coir, just rebbuting your statement that coir has no use whatsoever as a casing layer.

It has been used in the past, it works, albeit not as well as other materials, and it has been established that it will cause problems.



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Edited by Nibin (01/09/08 06:37 PM)


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Re: help with casing [Re: Nibin]
    #7855281 - 01/09/08 06:35 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Sigh, your missing the point plain and simple. It can and is used for casing. NO ONE IS CLAIMING IT IS THE BEST. Is that so hard to understand can you grasp that ? Also you have wayyy to much time on your hands.


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Re: help with casing [Re: Nibin]
    #7855639 - 01/09/08 07:35 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Nibin said:
Yes, so as I said, it works, but there are much better materials for your casing.

I wasn't saying that people should use coir, just rebutting your statement that coir has no use whatsoever as a casing layer.

It has been used in the past, it works, albeit not as well as other materials, and it has been established that it will cause problems.






I never said that at all, you put words in my mouth then argued with those words, not mine.

I said coir works, of course it works, but it sucks as a casing material, everybody knows that.

Plus, it's expensive, and that is a waste of coir IMHO, put it in your sub, not your casing.

I never said anything like "just rebutting your statement that coir has no use whatsoever as a casing layer", not even close, please quote me if you are going to make statement about things I claimed.


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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855687 - 01/09/08 07:40 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

keep posting, eventually you all will forget wtf ur talking about!



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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855703 - 01/09/08 07:42 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Coir works in casing because you don't even have to case to get fruits.




This, at least to me equals you saying coir is as good as not casing which equals you saying coir is useless as a casing layer.

Which Is why I rebutted this statement.


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Re: help with casing [Re: Nibin]
    #7855726 - 01/09/08 07:45 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

What that means is, by adding a layer of coir on top of your substrate, you are in effect, adding another layer of substrate, and therefore not adding a casing layer at all, which is only the non-nutritious layer on top of the cased substrate.

By casing with coir, you are not casing at all, not even Roger will dispute that!


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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855811 - 01/09/08 08:02 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

captain im giving you 5 shrooms of insanity :-)


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Re: help with casing [Re: poot]
    #7857979 - 01/10/08 07:34 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

ok i have two more noob questions first one is when doing a 50/50 casing do u really need the oyster or can u do with out it... next second question someone describe patching please? is it just taking dry verm and covering up the myc that comes threw?


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Re: help with casing [Re: Supplier]
    #7858027 - 01/10/08 07:53 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)



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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7858032 - 01/10/08 07:54 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Quote:

endepth said:
Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Quote:

endepth said:
Plenty of peoples opinions and casing techniques have been posted here. Quit being lazy.

Leaving this thread now.




Really, find me 3 links to good casing teks then Endepth.




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3290155/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1308057/an/0/page/0
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/565456/an/0/page/0

wow... that was hard y0. :thumbdown:




The last two are not good casing teks because they advocate the use of coir in the casing layer, something widely accepted as foolish.

Hyphae's is the only good one I could find as well.







HOLD IT RIGHT HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

The last two are not good casing teks because they advocate the use of coir in the casing layer, something widely accepted as foolish.





I use 100% Coco-Coir in all of my casings and I would not use anything else! With results like these who would want to?

LOOK!!!!!! VVVVVVVVVV









I have even better pictures that are amazing including a 700 gram first flush using only 100% Coco-Coir! From a 10"X12"X4" deep pan!

NOW IS THAT FOOLISH RESULTS?

I think its foolish to say that a PROVEN casing method is foolish!

I wouldn't use your peat, verm or whatever, why? Because I have used it in the past 15 years of cultivation and I have found that COIR is overall the handsdown winner when it comes to weight=casing layer!

Doc is foolish huh?
I know you didn't say that I was foolish but you did say that my casing tek is foolish-Why would you do that when it is proven to be a great casing material?

Yeah, I went through the same tortures of being a newbie on this site but when everyone realized I know my shit they quit acting like they knew everything-There is alot of good cultivators here and there are alot that thinks they are,lol. There are assholes and pests too, but we won't mention any names cause they know who they are.



JESUS CHRIST what has happened to this site since I was here only a year ago?

Hell, I've said enough!


My two cents and COCO-COIR ROCKS ASS!!!!!!!!!!!

Doc


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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7858034 - 01/10/08 07:56 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
What that means is, by adding a layer of coir on top of your substrate, you are in effect, adding another layer of substrate, and therefore not adding a casing layer at all, which is only the non-nutritious layer on top of the cased substrate.

By casing with coir, you are not casing at all, not even Roger will dispute that!





I'LL dispute that!!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: help with casing [Re: doc34]
    #7858166 - 01/10/08 08:39 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Doc, are you using coir as the substrate also?


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Re: help with casing [Re: fastfred]
    #7858179 - 01/10/08 08:42 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Doc everytime you show your pics its an inspiration makes me almost wanna shit my pants 700 gram first flush my god *drools*


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Re: help with casing [Re: DontPlay]
    #7858194 - 01/10/08 08:45 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

jesus 700 grams on one flush thats insane that makes me wana make my 50 gallon aquarium into one big casing hahaha :] hmm...


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Re: help with casing [Re: fastfred]
    #7858265 - 01/10/08 09:07 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Doc, are you using coir as the substrate also?




No, I'm not. I use it as a "casing layer" only.

Now, others are saying that coir is a "substrate" and not a "casing" layer-I beg to differ. It's both!
I have tried every casing material on the market and had different results with each, except one-coir! Now in order for a casing layer to be a true casing layer, it is suppose to be "non-nutrative"(sp?) meaning that it contains none or minute amounts of nutrients. If an organic substance is used it contains nutrients and coir(being organic) does indeed contain some nutrients, but, when used as a casing layer it produces extreme flushes just like or even better than the top grade materials-I don't care what it does or why it is called what it is-all I know is that it is the easiest to prepare(sterilizing or pasteurizing) as you don't add anything and you get results that are amazing-Why not use it as a "casing" layer-it works better than most of your true non-nutrient casing materials.

I'm not gonna argue this anymore cause its plain and simple=coir is the easiest thing for a newbie to use when first getting into casing and even if your a seasoned pro, to achieve dramatic results.

You call it a substrate and I call it a casing layer = who-gives-a-rats-ass?

It works as both!


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Re: help with casing [Re: fastfred]
    #7858273 - 01/10/08 09:10 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Doc, are you using coir as the substrate also?




No, I'm not. I use it as a "casing layer" only.

Now, others are saying that coir is a "substrate" and not a "casing" layer-I beg to differ. It's both!
I have tried every casing material on the market and had different results with each, except one-coir! Now in order for a casing layer to be a true casing layer, it is suppose to be "non-nutrative"(sp?) meaning that it contains none or minute amounts of nutrients. If an organic substance is used it contains nutrients and coir(being organic) does indeed contain some nutrients, but, when used as a casing layer it produces extreme flushes just like or even better than the top grade materials-I don't care what it does or why it is called what it is-all I know is that it is the easiest to prepare(sterilizing or pasteurizing) as you don't add anything and you get results that are amazing-Why not use it as a "casing" layer-it works better than most of your true non-nutrient casing materials.

I'm not gonna argue this anymore cause its plain and simple=coir is the easiest thing for a newbie to use when first getting into casing and even if your a seasoned pro, to achieve dramatic results.

You call it a substrate and I call it a casing layer = who-gives-a-rats-ass?

It works as both!


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Re: help with casing [Re: doc34]
    #7858302 - 01/10/08 09:19 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Nice Flush! Obviously doc, you have the experience and knowledge to read your surface mycelium in order to know just when to initiate pinning. A few years ago, coir was widely used in casings, and many growers such as Roadkill, had and still have, great results with it. Most of us mixed it 60/40 verm-coir.

The problem with new growers using coir as a top layer is that if they don't yet know how to time initiation, it's very prone to overlay, just as any non-cased bulk substrate will be. I've grown on pure coir, as have many growers here and it works great. I'm sure putting it over straw gives the benefits of the coir, while also the massive water holding properties of straw, giving the best of both worlds.
RR


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Re: help with casing [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7858670 - 01/10/08 10:56 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Nice Flush! Obviously doc, you have the experience and knowledge to read your surface mycelium in order to know just when to initiate pinning. A few years ago, coir was widely used in casings, and many growers such as Roadkill, had and still have, great results with it. Most of us mixed it 60/40 verm-coir.

The problem with new growers using coir as a top layer is that if they don't yet know how to time initiation, it's very prone to overlay, just as any non-cased bulk substrate will be. I've grown on pure coir, as have many growers here and it works great. I'm sure putting it over straw gives the benefits of the coir, while also the massive water holding properties of straw, giving the best of both worlds.
RR




And this is a question that I have always had when it comes to the "coir as a casing layer" debate.

When people say that adding a layer of coir is like adding another
layer of substrate it makes me wonder, if your substrate is ready for
primordia formation will adding coir as a casing layer make
your substrate switch from pinning back to colonization mode?
My first guess is no and at that point coir is providing moisture
to the sub and not nutritive value.


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Re: help with casing [Re: doc34]
    #7858691 - 01/10/08 10:59 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Doc, I love using coir especially in filteer patch bags. No casing needed, smells nice when mixed with spent coffee. I notice however
that afte the first flush my block shrinks significantly and subsequent gflushes are weak.

I use a 80/20 coir/coffee mix. Any ideas on how to keep that shrinkage to a minimum?


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Re: help with casing [Re: Mycodood]
    #7858803 - 01/10/08 11:18 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

When people say that adding a layer of coir is like adding another
layer of substrate it makes me wonder, if your substrate is ready for
primordia formation will adding coir as a casing layer make
your substrate switch from pinning back to colonization mode?




No it will not convert back to colonization even if you do wait until hyphal knots appear.

I don't wait for any of that. I case it with coir when the substrate has been 100% colonised only-no knots or primordia have formed-I use it way, way before the substrate gets to that stage.
It only gets to that stage after I case it with coir-therefore the mycelia doesn't recognise it as food but as a non-nitrient casing layer, or at least thats the way it acts.
Once my substrate is colonized, I add the coir and 3-5 days later(once it is colonised) I innitiate pinning=3-5 days later I am witnessing an explosion of pins not under the coir or in it but from the surface.
The casings never convert back unless you put them back into dark, and let the co2 build-up.

Quote:

The problem with new growers using coir as a top layer is that if they don't yet know how to time initiation, it's very prone to overlay, just as any non-cased bulk substrate will be.




Although I have never experienced 'over-lay' in the past, I can see your point. It is hard for a newbie to know when start the pinning process, that they will have to learn through trial and error, yes.


Anyhow thanks for kudo's on the flushes


Doc


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Re: help with casing [Re: doc34]
    #7858829 - 01/10/08 11:22 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

I'm also a believer in peat/verm casings. I tried coir when everybody else was raving about it, but coir works far better in the substrate than in casings.
RR 04/05/05

This is my first and last try using coir. I don't like the way it colonizes like a substrate and overlays in the fruiting chamber. I lightly scratched and patched the coir side, but it is already starting to overlay again. I do have pins now, but the set isn't great. It looks like it will overlay by the next flush, so I just might let it do that and fruit it like a big substrate block. I will not use coir again for casing cubes.
-Blue Helix 04/03/04

I've always recommended peat/verm for casing. It's just that so many people are 'set' on using coir, that I grew tired of always saying it sucks as a casing, rather than a substrate. If it's mixed 60/40 or 70/30 verm-coir it will work, although not as well as a non-nutritious casing such as peat will. For those of you who were around then, I was the first person to say coir is a substrate material and not well suited for casing unless massively diluted with vermiculite. Until then, everybody seemed to repeat the lie that coir has no 'nutes'. In fact, saying that coir is better suited as a substrate than a casing material led to me getting banned from one of the other mushroom boards for being on a 'jihad' against coir and popcorn spawn.
RR 11/03/06

I'm a peat based man through and through.
-Hyphae 04/01/05

50/peat - 40/verm - 10/coir (Ph adjusted peat - of course)
-Agar 04/16/05

You are 100% backwards. Coco coir is for substrates. Peat moss is for casing.
-Monstermitch 09/16/06

Peat + verm- IMO this is the best mix. You get the fluffiness of the peat with the water retention of the verm. Only downside, and it's not a big one, is the semi need for calcium carbonate to balance the PH of the peat since it's acidic. However if you're only in it for a flush or two you can ignore that (i do, and i get great harvests from a 5lb casing). Verm- Verm will do in a pinch if for some reason peat isn't available. It provides great water retention and no other additives to balance out the PH. The only problem is that it tends to compact which is counterproductive in cultivation. When working with straight verm i suggest going on the sparser side and create a thin layer. Coir- IMO coir makes a better substrate then a casing layer.
-Coda 08/16/07

You don't want nutes in the casing layer.
-Hyphae 07/04/07

The only draw back to the Verm/Coco Coir casing is...that you need to fruit it before the mycelium breaks the surface of the casing layer.
If you wait too long to fruit...the mycelium will grow through the casing layer too quickly and you will have to patch the casing layer...and if you don't patch it, you might get a bad pinset.
-Roadkill 04/14/05


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Re: help with casing [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7859022 - 01/10/08 11:57 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Yeah, I can quote alot of people too, but I would rather take my 20 + years of cultivating and go back into hiding with all of my secrets in my frail little hands, before I would continue to argue this anymore.

"Do as you wish and believe what you want while I lay in my bed of shrooms!"
Doc 2/10/08

:stoned:


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: help with casing [Re: doc34]
    #7859158 - 01/10/08 12:20 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

That some have used it, and continue to use coir as a casing layer material does not say anything about whether it is better to use peat than coir, in your casing layers.

Hell, you can fruit a bible, a stack of newspapers, even popcorn has worked for peeps. Commercial farms do not add substrate to their casing layers.

You can fruit a block of coir with NO CASING at all.

I agree with you about your 20 years experience, nothing compares to that, no one doubts you.

The thing is, when I advocate unorthodox ideas people quote the masters to prove me wrong, or cite commercial farms.

When I advocate accepted ideas people still want to prove me wrong.

The question here is this, am I wrong?

All I claimed was that peat is a better casing layer material then coir, which is better used as a substrate.

Roger is very careful to not agree with me, to make me look bad, although in reality he does agree, that coir is better in the sub,and peat is better in the casing layer than coir.

All I claimed was that peat is a better casing layer material then coir, which is better used as a substrate.

Please, tell me that isn't 100% wrong.


Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/10/08 12:56 PM)


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