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Anonymous

Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #798680 - 08/05/02 09:30 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

>Fair enough. What is a good reason to believe?

Many people have made lists, some of which you can even find online, that give reasons why they believe in Jesus Christ. I recommend you check out those lists so you can get a broader perspective, but I&#8217;m guessing you&#8217;ve seen those lists anyway. As for me, there is only one good reason to believe: It is the undeniable truth and to forget that or pervert that is a &#8220;sin worthy of death,&#8221; to quote the apostle John. Now, I realize to most people this is not undeniable truth. For me it is after the life I&#8217;ve had thus far. So for me personally, that is my answer for a &#8216;a good reason to believe.&#8217; It is the truth and I&#8217;m not going to forget it &#8211; ever.

So you are saying that the best reason you can come up with is because if you don't believe them you'll burn in hell. I see.


>What factual evidence are you referring to?

There are a few different angle that I can take to answer this question. Some people have made efforts to write entire books about the evidence of Jesus Christ, both historically and through spiritual truths.
Jesus Christ has left a permanent mark on the entire earth. Our worldwide calendar is based on His life. People have claimed to have repeated experiences with the Holy Spirit who, in turn, led these same people to the reality of Jesus Christ&#8217;s life, death, resurrection and position as the Son of God.
Worldwide you will find almost too many churches dedicated to Jesus Christ, some being Godly, some not so Godly unfortunately. Nevertheless, just about wherever one goes, one has a human presentation of this Man Jesus Christ. If you do not stumble across a church or look at certain historical facts, chances are you will be witnessed to by a Christian, some being Godly, some not so Godly, unfortunately.
If you do not look at history, the church, or personal testimony &#8211; behold: The signature of God&#8217;s artwork (meaning the natural world/the physical world) is constantly in front of you wherever you go. It is an amazing thing to look at the detail and intricacy of nature and how it all grooves and weeves together in a very organized fashion. The trees and plants give us oxygen to breathe and food to eat. We are able to multiply and procreate new men and woman, maintaining the human race, while each animal likewise procreates as male and female, maintaining each of their kinds.
Furthermore, there is the blessed dilemma of the psilocybe mushroom. What a contrived thing to have on the same earth that mankind is on. And this takes us to what many call the astral plane &#8211; a higher state of consciousness in which we begin to function on a far more spiritual level, at least for those of us who are willing to truly venture.
Furthermore, there is the mystery of the Scriptures, which testify of Jesus in a very, very clear fashion and millions of people identify with the Pentecostal experience named in Acts chapter two. Furthermore, there is the conviction of the Scriptures, the amazing impact in which they have when read to someone, or when someone reads the Scriptures themselves.
I could go on. I hope I have at least given some acceptable evidence to the &#8216;court.&#8217;


I am well acquainted with apologetics but I find them unconvincing to atheists. that's not much to go on.

People have all sorts of experiences. If one is to go on that then how does one know which experiences lead to truth and which ones lead to error?

As far as nature is concerned it is wonderous to look at but it does not lead people by itself to Christ. If it did Christ would not have told His people to "go ye out into all the world".

As far as psilocybian mushrooms are concerned there are many toxic poisons that can give people altered states. That doesn't offer any evidence at all for the existence of Christ.

The Scriptures can have an effect on some people but not others. If God loves everyone and wants them to be saved then why do some people read the Bible, while searching and come away empty handed?

The experiences at Pentecost were had by a very few people and since we weren't there we only have a clue what it was that they experienced.


>If you are saved, do you sin?

Of course. The apostle John said it best when he said, &#8220;He who says he has no sin is a liar and the truth is not in him.&#8221; I certainly have more than a few dozen sins. This religion is not about perfection. Ultimately it&#8217;s about atonement and a harmony with God Almighty who gave us life. It is not a guilt trip, although you will even find in the Torah a &#8220;guilt offering&#8221; which people would make for their own conscience&#8217; sake.

If John referring to Christians or Non-Christians?


>How do you know that your religion is not a false one and that demons have given you only enough of the truth to make you fit for hell?

No offense, but this is kind of a silly thing to ask to me personally. If it&#8217;s so false, why do my words burn into so many people so swiftly?

No offense given or taken. There could be a number of reasons why your words "burn into people so swiftly". Perhaps you make them angry with your superior attitude? People have mentioned that so I assume that is what they make of you.


>Aren't Satan and his demons angels of light?

Satan is/was the angel of light and certainly can deceive. He&#8217;s a puppet though. He&#8217;s not in the forefront of my psyche or religion or life. He can be likened to the opposition that God brought against Israel during times of disobedience which you can check out in the Torah. God does indeed use evil spirits to afflict us to bring about change for the better. This sounds a bit cartoon-like or movie-like but to some of us, it has become to make very logical sense in a world of true free will.

Fair enough.


>And why keep the details to yourself about your experiences? What if someone needs them in order to be saved? It looks like you are hiding something.

I feel like it. I can save no one, nor do I really wish to, if I may be so frank. I&#8217;m more of the type of person who wishes to stir up people and cause them to question if they are on the right track or not. I am allowed to keep to myself what I wish, am I not?

I don't know, are you?


If you admit it is a possibility that you are deluded then how in the world can you justify asking someone to believe as you do?

This is perhaps one of the greatest perversions that a non-believer constantly brings to the table. If you&#8217;ll reread ALL or any of my posts, I haven&#8217;t asked anyone to believe what I do. I simply tell people what I think and poke and jab at them in a polite and playful way. Even though many people here disagree with me quite firmly, we do seem to enjoy conversing with one another rather often. As I&#8217;ve written before, it&#8217;s a strange harmony that occurs between a believer and a non-believer when they can remain somewhat polite to one another. It&#8217;s a contrast that does have some form of beauty to it.

What you take for playfulness is not taken that way be everyone, myself included. I find myself agreeing with Shroomerylurker when he says:

"I would not have been so discussed (sic) with this thread in the beginning and started challenging you if the title of your thread had not been "Are atheist pansies? Yes, indeed they are." and had a picture of a boot kicking an ass beside it. Your point was not to care for or help them along so that they might later 'know god' as you would put it, it was to put them down, and make yourself look good for your beliefs. How pridefull, demeaning, and judgmental. Was Christ any of those things?

Really, was he?"

Your pictures of Trolls in reference to Sclorch are in poor taste. If you thought they were funny you should have put a smiley face by them. And if you think that many others find your posts funny, how many LOL's and smiley faces do you see when they answer you?

You come across as mean-spirited and devilish. If I were an atheist I would thank God that I wasn't like you. (pun)

>Think on it.

Likewise.

Why would I do otherwise?

Cheers,


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: ]
    #798701 - 08/05/02 09:43 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Deleted by admin


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Anonymous

Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #798731 - 08/05/02 09:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

There were no "struck nerves" as you call them. I am simply making an observation based on your replys to others and their replies to you in return.

You do know what a troll is, don't you? It is a person that acts as you have described yourself. Baiting is their game.

Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #798742 - 08/05/02 09:58 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

At 7:53 pm, approximately 7 hours ago, you said, "I'm still ready to go to bat with anyone who actually has something legitimate and heartfelt to say."

I guess you didn't mean it.

Exit, Enter


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: pansies are flowers [Re: Anonymous]
    #799098 - 08/06/02 04:16 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

Besides , isnt it God's job to Judge?




god does not judge

and if the core belief of satanism is that we are god... then i guess i am kind of a satanist... but i think the difference is that the satanists believe that ONLY we are god, while i know that god is All There IS, and that there is nothing god is not... therefore there is no satan, making a religion around him useless (well, religion is useless anyways)


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Edited by Lozt Soul (08/06/02 04:40 AM)


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: Swami]
    #799110 - 08/06/02 04:27 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

it is not about repenting to god... it is about seeing the glory in him, and in his creation... every part of his creation...
and the image about confessing you have is religious, not spiritual... god wants us to take responsibility for our actions, indeed that is the only way for us to evolve... he doesnt stand up there saying "this is wrong" or "that is right" nor does he punish us for something "wrong" afterwards... we have a FREE will, there is no judgement, and no punishment... the only ones to decide whether we have sinned or not is ourselves... and i dont like the word sin either... if you realize you have done something that does not agree with who you are, and want to be, then simply chose again... do it right this time... but be aware that you have to carry the concecuences of that action...
and i tell you this... no one does something he thinks is "wrong" according to the image of themselves and the world they have in that moment... lets take hitler for instance... he was convinces what he was doing is right... and the sadness and shame lies not in his idea, but in all the people following him, and agreeing with what he had to say and do... only years after people started to see what his actions were about they began to refuse to follow him... if you have a real crazy idea, but all of a sudden hundreds of people agree with that idea, it doesnt seem that crazy anymore, does it?


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: Swami]
    #799118 - 08/06/02 04:33 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

oh! and swami... you get feedback... you just refuse to see it/hear it, because it would make your view of the world crumble down... god talks to everyone! all the time... you just have to listen (what almost no does actually)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: In(di)go]
    #799184 - 08/06/02 05:29 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

because it would make your view of the world crumble down

You know nothing of me and cannot possibly make this assessment. Like most "believers" you must stray from any form of real discussion. Instead of analyzing me, why not tell me how God speaks to me and how I can DEFINITIVELY hear him.

Please don't get all poetic and tell me that God talks to me in a baby's cry and by the leaves rustlng in the wind...

How about something ACTUALLY useful.


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (08/06/02 06:34 AM)


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: Swami]
    #799217 - 08/06/02 06:02 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

i mean your view of the world as in "everybody is responsible for themselves"... there is no god... we just happen to be here out of a HUGE coincidence... we are separate from each other... and so on... i didnt mean to judge the way you view the world, and i did never say i knew much about you... i just used one of the few facts i have about you (you dont believe in god, you believe in human mind and rational thinking) as to put an example of the view of our world that would crumble if you started listening to god... because for me once you start believin in god, everything changes, everything is reborn...
and well... god speaks to you through everything... through me right now, for instance (i know your gonna say im delusional, but i can live with that)... god speaks to you through yourself, believe in or not... through the first sentence the next person you meet says to you... through the next article you read in a magazine... through the next song you hear in the radio... he is always providing answers to your questions, you just have to listen...


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: In(di)go]
    #799463 - 08/06/02 08:55 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Lozt Soul, one question...

Where do you get your hope?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: Sclorch]
    #799496 - 08/06/02 09:10 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

kill yrselves.


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: Sclorch]
    #799541 - 08/06/02 09:32 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

hope comes from within


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: In(di)go]
    #799594 - 08/06/02 09:53 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Fair enough.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: In(di)go]
    #799675 - 08/06/02 10:55 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You say that he is always providing answers to our questions.. but is "he" really?By saying that we talk to god all the time, because we are god and we talk to ourselves, does nothing. You can say we are one but in actuality we are all unique. The thing i dont understand is how people like enter think of god as some entity that can actually talk to us. Where is god right now and what is "he" doing? God is.


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Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: Droz]
    #800056 - 08/06/02 02:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

god is not an entity as in the traditional sense of it... he can take form of an entity, yes... if he wants to... but he is more than that... he is everything there is... therefore you are right in saying that "god is" he simply is, always was and could not "not be"... ever...
and yes, we are all unique... as unique as we want to be... but that doesnt change the fact that we are all ONE... all a part of the same infinite beeing (notice i say a part, not apart)...


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Anonymous

Re: Are Atheists Pansies? Indeed, they are. [Re: World Spirit]
    #800982 - 08/06/02 09:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

I seriously did not know pansy meant homosexual,



And you have the nerve to say I'm not clever.
Indeed.
-OoD


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Anonymous

Re: pansies are flowers [Re: In(di)go]
    #800990 - 08/06/02 09:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

god does not judge



You're a good egg LS- I imagine if I were God, i would be judging left and right. Just Ask Enter, he saw God and Elvis on the Mother Ship as it dropped him off in a Crop circle.
-OoD


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: pansies are flowers [Re: Anonymous]
    #802527 - 08/07/02 02:34 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I dont see any god around here


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Re: Are Atheists __________? Indeed, they are. [Re: World Spirit]
    #803678 - 08/08/02 02:10 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I had been writting a long post that probably would offend god fearing folk, but decided against submiting it. Sufice it to say that I would assume go to hell than be a made puppet for an egomaniac. I won't whorship those idols (cross and crucifix). I will take the future of the world on my sholders as my charge and responsibility imstead of passing the future to some unseen egoimaniac.

If there was a God that deserved my love and devotion we wouldn't know it because he would no let himself be known. He would simply weigh my contribution at the end.

The devil would likely create bibles and scriptures to divide and confuse people. He would make idols like crosses and such for you to waste your life whorshiping.

Im more agnostic though. To me god and devil, good and evil are all the same thing. They are one. two sides of the same coin. The yin,yang. The force.One can not exist in the absense of the other.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: Are Atheists __________? Indeed, they are. [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #803696 - 08/08/02 02:36 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

To me god and devil, good and evil are all the same thing. They are one. two sides of the same coin. The yin,yang. The force.One can not exist in the absense of the other.




well they are in this material world... god created the relativity of god and evil, se we can be able to experience who we truly are... we cannot know god?s greatness and glory without knowing the opposite... how do you know warmth without knowing cold? but once we leave this material plane of existance, relativity ceases to exist


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Edited by Lozt Soul (08/08/02 02:39 AM)


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