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Anonymous

Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #796389 - 08/04/02 07:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You seem so firm in your faith. How do you know it's real? Are you relying on experiences? What makes you think Christ is the savior? How do you know you are not deluded?


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: ]
    #796428 - 08/04/02 07:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: Sclorch]
    #796433 - 08/04/02 07:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #796567 - 08/04/02 09:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Well if Judas who saw and witnessed and lived with Jesus didn't get it, then he must not have been all that convincing a Messiah.


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OfflineBrainNirvana
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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: Swami]
    #796625 - 08/04/02 09:58 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I had this up on another thread... But then deleted it once I started reading this.

Why didn't god create us equals?It sometimes makes me feel as though he made us more for amusement. Does it not feel as though there is a feeling of being a slave when believing in religion. Or is it more on the level of he loves us the way we love, say a dog. If given this possibility to create something like humans would you not make them equals to you? Are would you too be power hungry?

This is merely a question, not a fight..


Edited by BrainNirvana (08/04/02 09:59 PM)


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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: BrainNirvana]
    #796643 - 08/04/02 10:07 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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OfflineBrainNirvana
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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #796668 - 08/04/02 10:27 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Not to be rude, but I ask for 15 years. It really started to get to me when a god that loves us all so much couldn't talk to me, but some how gets it across to you.
Let me change around my question, if you were the maker "made out of love", would you make them have to prove anything to you. Pray to you, make chruches after you or would you want them to be equals. If the answer to anyone is "yes" then you to should be a god. I would never create something that I had to be the god of.

The funny thing about it is, we all question, or we wouldn't even waist our time talking about this.


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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: BrainNirvana]
    #796674 - 08/04/02 10:34 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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OfflineBrainNirvana
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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: BrainNirvana]
    #796675 - 08/04/02 10:34 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry after reading what you wrote again I understand a little better were you are coming from. I didn't mean why did he not make us human equal, I mean why didn't he make us equal to him? I should have made this more clear..


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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: BrainNirvana]
    #796684 - 08/04/02 10:39 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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OfflineBrainNirvana
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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #796699 - 08/04/02 10:49 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

>"How will the creation say to the Creator, "Make us like You."?
Why can't it?

See the argument on this subject is always going to be the same. One side can only see in the boundaries that it is given because he/she feels that boundaries were given by a "Creator". You said this better then most "It doesn't work that way. You're taking all of this like your the outsider."
Well, I am.


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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: BrainNirvana]
    #796717 - 08/04/02 11:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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OfflineBrainNirvana
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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #796722 - 08/04/02 11:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps...


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Anonymous

Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #796948 - 08/05/02 05:07 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You ask me to stop in one post, then in a follow-up post you keep me going. What am I to think of you, Mr. Mushrooms?

I do not remember asking you to stop. I did, however, hint that there are better ways of discussing religion.

Think of me as a friend who wants to know more about your faith.

>How do you know it's real?

Noone knows much of anything. We believe. John 3:16 isn't on posters at football stadiums to cause knowledge to come forth but faith and belief. (He who BELIEVES shall be saved...).

Fair enough. What is a good reason to believe?

Are you relying on experiences?

Mostly, yes. But also an abundant amount of evidence. Christ is practically in front of us at all times. You cannot escape Him. It is simply not possible.

I think it is very dangerous to rely on experiences. A person can have all kinds of experiences. Without some kind of other evidence a person could follow any religion and think it is true. What factual evidence are you referring to? The natives in the jungle have Christ in front of them at all times? Please be more explicit because your statement seems nonsensical.

What makes you think Christ is the savior?

Because the Holy Spirit has confirmed to me His identity. Secondly, the day the Holy Spirit filled me back in December of 1996 my life dramatically changed. And I do mean dramatically. I was saved that day. (The details I shall keep to myself).

People pass through all kinds of life changing experiences but that does not mean that the existence of a heavenly being is the truth. If you are saved, do you sin? How do you know that your religion is not a false one and that demons have given you only enough of the truth to make you fit for hell? Aren't Satan and his demons angels of light?

And why keep the details to yourself about your experiences? What if someone needs them in order to be saved? It looks like you are hiding something.

How do you know you are not deluded?

This is indeed a possibility. Again, it goes back to faith. If I am deluded, I assure you I am no more deluded than anyone else. We're all on the saming playing field, otherwise we wouldn't chat so much, would we?

If you admit it is a possibility that you are deluded then how in the world can you justify asking someone to believe as you do? People do not, as a rule, follow others who think they might be mad. And if you are deluded you would have no way of knowing is anyone else is or not. I am not sure that we are on the same playing field at all.

Now, what about you...? Where do you stand and why?

I do not share the details of what I think to be truth in an open forum because I do not know who is supposed to hear it and who is not.

I will say this though. What I think to be true is always open to revision. Always. Otherwise I might never know the truth.

Think on it.

Cheers,











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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: ]
    #797099 - 08/05/02 07:30 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #797143 - 08/05/02 07:58 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Organized religion is for the week willed. People who believe in God and Christ are looking for a abusive father figure. God is not good he/she/it if exists is the cruelest being in the universe. Those who are swayed into his flock are brain washed fools. There is no intelligent conversation that can be had with someone of the faith. Humans would be far better off if religion kept it's dirty hands out of the lives of the people. Religion just another word for perversion.


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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #797525 - 08/05/02 10:54 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

enter-

1. First off, this: "Our worldwide calendar is based on His life." is just not true.

2. You said this:
He holds the office as the King of Kings, and He wants that office. I think it's a simple matter of pride and He wants His own identity so as to create the ability to have external relationships with humans whom He has created

I take it then that your God doesn't abide by the same rules as he has given you.
Isn't pride one of the seven deadly sins?


3. This is where I have my problem with religion (specifically the Abrahamic faiths)... A God of love that will strike down with great vengeance and furious anger those sinners who don't drop and give him 20... 'hail marys'. I can't accept that kind of a God. If God is perfect (which no religious person would doubt), then why is there so much internal conflict within God? I mean, God has so much internal conflict that he almost seems, well... human.


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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #797597 - 08/05/02 11:54 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

this thread really pisses me off for some reason.


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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: Sclorch]
    #797716 - 08/05/02 12:55 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Are Atheists correct? We'll never know for sure.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #797738 - 08/05/02 01:08 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Sclorch, you really need to get some fresh material man. You're not even challenging me. We're just getting boring at this point, going around a circle of debate.

This reminds me of when I play with my dog. We play fetch with sticks, frisbees, balls etc. He gets bored after awhile and wants to quit (he doesn't seem to get that tired of running around though). I can understand, I get bored with playing fetch after awhile too. The thought HAS occured to me that maybe a game of chess would be more challenging for old Spike, but then I realize "Wait a minute... it's a fucking dog, Sclorch. What are you thinking? A dog can't play chess!" So I just keep tossing balls for him. Maybe one day... nah, dogs can't play chess.


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