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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to case a substrate and where to get them. * 1
    #7848080 - 01/08/08 01:54 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

This is stating the obvious to those in the know, but in 4 months of searching the archives and posts I really never found one post that listed everything you needed, what grade to buy, links to the teks in a simple format, easy for noobs to understand, and provided links to online vendors of those items.

Peat (fine) Sunshine brand

Perlite (medium) Nor-Cal

Vermiculite (medium) Therm-O-Rock

Coir (fine) Almost any brand will do, but avoid ones high in sodium.

Gypsum (fine) CalCM+ Plus Dual Purpose Gypsum

Oyster Flour (fine) Pacific Pearl

Organic Rye Berries Available at most health food stores, but you can get them online at Mycosupply.

You only need these 7 ingredients to mix great casings. If you wanna make PF Tek cakes, just substitute brown rice flour (BRF) for rye berries (RBs).

Everything but perlite and vermiculite need to be fine grade, the perlite and vermiculite must be medium grade, not fine, or large.

Make sure the rye berries are organic, non-hulled, or whole berries.

Also, the grade is rarely mentioned, and people can easily think that fine verm works as well as medium verm, which it does not, get medium grade vermiculite Therm-O-Rock.

People mention peat, but rarely mention it has to be the fine peat, with no strands or chunks of wood. Most commercial peat had a wetting agent added, and is not true organic like Sunshine.

Fine grade perlite does not work nearly as well as course, and paying $5 for 4 quarts at home depot is foolish when you could have 20 Cu Ft delivered for around $100.

Many coco bricks out there are fibrous, and not as good as the true coco peat, pith, or fine ground coco husk, and many posts about coir leave out sodium as an issue

The CalCM+ is 100% organic, 18% sulphur, 23% calcium, which is ideal. Dry wall is nearly identicle chemically, but it has synthetic binders and fire retardants added. If your fruits consume it, then so do you! Grow organic.

The oyster flour listed above is used in commercial mushroom farms, and is the preferred choice of most of the old hands here. It is a good alternative to hydrated lime, which is caustic, and not recommended for amateurs.

Make your self a Shotgun FC, with an ultra tubed in for misting, and 5 inches of damp, well drained perlite on the bottom.

Rye Berries Tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6936247#6936247

Casing Tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7479477&page=0&vc=1#Post7479477

Hyphae's Pinning Strategy
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3290155#3290155

Simple 6 step overview of a commercial mushroom farm.
http://www.mushroomcouncil.com/grow/sixsteps.html

If there is a mistake, or if I omitted something please, do tell.

Imagine this is your first time here, never grew, and you know nothing about mycology. Would you find this post helpful? You can't teach it all in one post, but this is a good start.


--------------------
www.groworganic.com
Get 350lbs shipped to your door for only $100!
www.mycosupply.com
Online Organic Rye Berries
www.hydroponics.net/i/200002
The Cyclestat 4P, a great repeat cycle timer made in the USA.


Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/09/08 07:05 PM)


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Offlinexhooliganx
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get them. [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7848210 - 01/08/08 02:19 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Everything but perlite and vermiculite needs to be ground up and fine, the perlite and vermiculite must be medium grade, not fine, or large.



oh shit I must have been doing it wrong the whole time. thanks capn'cube for informing us that we need to grind up our rye.


--------------------


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get them. [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7848230 - 01/08/08 02:23 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

You may wanna change the subject before RR sees it...
Casings are mixed, not grown, unless you consider growing coconutes to be a form of growing casing layer ingredients.


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OfflineMYSTIQUE
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7848303 - 01/08/08 02:38 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
This is stating the obvious to those in the know, but in 4 months of searching the archives and posts I really never found one post that listed everything you needed, what grade to buy, links to the teks in a simple format, easy for noobs to understand, and provided links to online vendors of those items.

Peat (fine) Sunshine brand

Perlite (medium) Nor-Cal

Vermiculite (medium) Therm-O-Rock

Coir (fine) Almost any brand will do, but avoid ones high in sodium.

Gypsum (fine) CalCM+ Plus Dual Purpose Gypsum

Oyster Flour (fine) Pacific Pearl

Organic Rye Berries Available at most health food stores, but you can get them online at Mycosupply.

You only need these 7 ingredients to grow great casings.

Everything but perlite and vermiculite needs to be ground up and fine, the perlite and vermiculite must be medium grade, not fine, or large.

Make your self a Shotgun FC, with an ultra tubed in for misting, and 5 inches of damp, well drained perlite on the bottom.

Rye Berries Tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7479390#7479390

Casing Tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7479477&page=0&vc=1#Post7479477

Hyphae's Pinning Strategy
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3290155#3290155

Simple 6 step overview of a commercial mushroom farm.
http://www.mushroomcouncil.com/grow/sixsteps.html




What info is here that hasn't already been stated a million times?

Recycling old post into new ones?

Insted of starting new threads answer old ones?

As nice as it is in a day it will be lost into the black hole of a culitvation forum we have.


--------------------
Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS
http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary
I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt                         
Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt
Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet
Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat,

:onfire:DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!:onfire:


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InvisibleDontPlay
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Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 750
Loc: On Land most of the time....
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: MYSTIQUE]
    #7848345 - 01/08/08 02:44 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Yeah all of that is in casing teks lol. Surely you have something better to do or post other then old info in a new thread.


--------------------
My Trade List


I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. 
    Hunter S. Thompson



I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.
~Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblemycopsycho
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: MYSTIQUE]
    #7848373 - 01/08/08 02:52 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

MYSTIQUE said:
Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
This is stating the obvious to those in the know, but in 4 months of searching the archives and posts I really never found one post that listed everything you needed, what grade to buy, links to the teks in a simple format, easy for noobs to understand, and provided links to online vendors of those items.

Peat (fine) Sunshine brand

Perlite (medium) Nor-Cal

Vermiculite (medium) Therm-O-Rock

Coir (fine) Almost any brand will do, but avoid ones high in sodium.

Gypsum (fine) CalCM+ Plus Dual Purpose Gypsum

Oyster Flour (fine) Pacific Pearl

Organic Rye Berries Available at most health food stores, but you can get them online at Mycosupply.

You only need these 7 ingredients to grow great casings.

Everything but perlite and vermiculite needs to be ground up and fine, the perlite and vermiculite must be medium grade, not fine, or large.

Make your self a Shotgun FC, with an ultra tubed in for misting, and 5 inches of damp, well drained perlite on the bottom.

Rye Berries Tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7479390#7479390

Casing Tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7479477&page=0&vc=1#Post7479477

Hyphae's Pinning Strategy
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3290155#3290155

Simple 6 step overview of a commercial mushroom farm.
http://www.mushroomcouncil.com/grow/sixsteps.html




What info is here that hasn't already been stated a million times?

Recycling old post into new ones?

Insted of starting new threads answer old ones?

As nice as it is in a day it will be lost into the black hole of a culitvation forum we have.




cut this shit out. you arent a mod. its not your job to go around and be a trolling dickhead in the cult forums. he thought he was doing something good for the community.. as he said not all of this info was posted in the same thread. no more, forum nazi.


--------------------
I Am The Sickness.

Diploid: I think adults have a right to make stupid decisions and it's nobody else's fucking business.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: DontPlay]
    #7848381 - 01/08/08 02:54 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

How is this character not banned yet?

Hes been whining over in W.A.F about RR as well.


Edited by KillerPicklez (01/08/08 02:55 PM)


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #7848435 - 01/08/08 03:07 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Show me one post that has all this info in it.

Thanks Mycopsyco, you are right.

Hell, search posts by those guys, I'll bet 80% of their replies are meaningless name calling, detraction, telling people they are dumb like 4rth graders on the playground.

What do you add to the community?

A person logging on for the first time and finding that post will be grateful.

Like I said in the first line, this is stating the obvious, if you already know, but if do not already know, then this would be helpful I think.

A few weeks back I asked people for good online vendors of gypsum, one mod told me to break up drywall!

I a pretty sure he uses the same stuff listed above, but wouldn't divulge the trade secrets!

Also, the grade is rarely mentioned, and people can easily think that fine verm works as well as medium verm, which it does not.

People mention peat, but rarely mention it has to be the fine peat, with no strands or chunks of wood. Most commercial peat had a wetting agent added, and is not true organic like Sunshine.

Fine grade perlite does not work nearly as well as course, and paying $5 for 4 quarts at home depot is foolish when you could have 20 Cu Ft delivered for around $100.

Many coco bricks out there are fibrous, and not as good as the true coco peat, pith, or fine ground coco husk.

Trust, me, ground up drywall is not as good as the Calcium Plus stuff I mention above. In addition to Calcium Sulfate it contains 10 other beneficial nutrients. And it is 100% organic, whereas dry wall has synthetic binders and fire retardants added.

The oyster flour listed above is used in commercial mushroom farms, and is the preferred choice of most of the old hands here.

Like I said, it's a shame people clutter this site with 80% mean spirited attacks on people, then claim they wish I wouldn't post so much.





Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/08/08 03:28 PM)


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get them. [Re: Fraggin]
    #7848520 - 01/08/08 03:24 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
You may wanna change the subject before RR sees it...
Casings are mixed, not grown, unless you consider growing coconuts to be a form of growing casing layer ingredients.




Good idea, already changed it, thanks for the constructive advice!

That's how this is supposed to work guys, people add suggestions not just detraction.

If there is a mistake, or if I omitted something please, do tell.

Imagine this is your first time here, never grew, and you know nothing about mycology.

Would you find this post helpful? Nearly everything you could show in one post. You can't teach it all in one post, but this is a good start.


Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/08/08 03:38 PM)


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Offlinelikwid
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Registered: 12/27/07
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7848556 - 01/08/08 03:32 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

A few weeks back I asked people for good online vendors of gypsum, one mod told me to break up drywall!




You can break up drywall. Drywall is made of gypsum, so it works fine...probably the cheapest way to get a bunch of gypsum is to break up a sheet of drywall.(they're only like $6)

As for the rest of the post...GOOD WORK!

I think we need more accurate posts containing lots of information...that way they outnumber the old-crappy-mininforming posts.

I'd give you 5 but I'm still too new. :smile:


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: likwid]
    #7848609 - 01/08/08 03:43 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate the support. and drywall does in fact work, yes, you are correct.

However, drywall contains synthetic binders and fire retardants, and is not organic. Eating fruits from organisms that consumed synthetic binders and fire retardents puts you at risk to also consume those chemicals. Not to mention breaking up drywall is nasty, messy work.

You can get 200 lbs, of the best gypsum out there, shipped to your door for $75, that's 200 lbs!

No binders, no fire retardants, 100% horticultural grade certified organic, and no breaking up drywall.


Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/08/08 04:42 PM)


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Posts: 648
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: mycopsycho]
    #7848640 - 01/08/08 03:46 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

mycopsycho said:Peat (fine) Sunshine brand

What info is here that hasn't already been stated a million times?

Recycling old post into new ones?

Instead of starting new threads answer old ones?

As nice as it is in a day it will be lost into the black hole of a cultivation forum we have.




cut this shit out. you aren't a mod. its not your job to go around and be a trolling dick head in the cult forums. he thought he was doing something good for the community.. as he said not all of this info was posted in the same thread. no more, forum Nazi.




Thanks MycoPsyco, plus, isn't that what editors do? Would history or science be accurate if EVERY entry was kept separate, on post-it notes?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: likwid]
    #7848694 - 01/08/08 03:57 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Since I didn't see the thread title until you changed it, exactly what did it say before?

A few points are in order here. First, nice searching, but don't you think it would be a bit wiser to avoid posting teks until you've done them at least once? The procedure for getting the respect you crave is to grow some nice flushes, post the pictures, and then explain how you did it and what you used. It leaves yourself open to criticism when you post lots of questions, and then immediately write a 'tek' regarding what you were just asking.

The reason I say the above, is because your 'rye tek' is almost word for word my tek, except you got the gypsum part totally wrong. You would never use 10% gypsum in rye grains. A tablespoon in the pot of soaking water will do. Drywall is fine if you can't find the easy way and get a bag of granulated gypsum. The 'horticultural grade' gypsum I get from the local garden center is waste material and broken pieces from a drywall plant, complete with lots of pieces of white and brown paper. It works like a charm. As for using calcium with added 'nutrients' intended for plants, they will have little benefit for fungi.

You don't finely grind up casing layer ingredients. The courser it is the better. It's important for air to be able to penetrate the entire casing layer. A few small pieces of debris in the peat doesn't hurt a thing. I never remove them. That's the reason we pasteurize.

At any rate, lighten up people, and you too cc.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Posts: 648
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7848783 - 01/08/08 04:12 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

My only point really was to abridge, or edit together one post with the basic list to get started.

I couldn't find one RogerRabbit post in 4 months of searching that did what this post does, that's not a slam, I thought it was needed.

Mods force us all to search through all the bad info, I thought one post with no bad info was in order.

Roger, thanks for correcting the gypsum soak thing, I misunderstood you before, and appreciate your giving me the chance to correct it.

Is anything else listed above wrong?


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7848824 - 01/08/08 04:20 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

"your 'rye tek' is almost word for word my tek"
RR

Well, that should flatter you, but I never called it my tek, only claimed it was a clear succinct rye tek that works.

I found your rye tek verbose and hard to read, but great information, so in a sense I edited it.

Plus, if we are talking YOUR tek here, how old are you?

Cause I think they were using rye berries in mush farming before 1900.

Correct me if I am wrong, but to call any tek YOURS or HIS is incorrect IMHO, we all learn from those before us, and Roger you certainly didn't invent rye spawn.

"As for using calcium with added 'nutrients' intended for plants, they will have little benefit for fungi."
RR

Are you saying CalCM+ has little to no benefit to myc?
It contains 18.6% sulfur and 23.2% calcium, certainly those are good nutrients right?

What about the binders and fire retardants in drywall, if your fruit consumes them so do you.

"Since I didn't see the thread title until you changed it, exactly what did it say before?"
RR

It said to grow with instead of mix with.


Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/08/08 04:44 PM)


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7848876 - 01/08/08 04:32 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

I take it back, arguing is pointless.

CC, did you take your rye berry info from 100 year old mushroom farmers or RR?


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


Edited by Crasher (01/08/08 04:34 PM)


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Crasher]
    #7848921 - 01/08/08 04:40 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
I take it back, arguing is pointless.

CC, did you take your rye berry info from 100 year old mushroom farmers or RR?




Roger is not the only person who advocates rinsing off your RBs, letting them soak for 24 hours, rinsing them off again, then boiling them to allow them to steam off.

You cannot patent a process that is older than you, nor claim it as your own.

Are you saying the post needs a sources page, AMA style?


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7848976 - 01/08/08 04:50 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Actually MLA citation is preferred.

Edited to add:

Although you cannot patent a process, you can present information to an internet forum as a technique that has been used successfully. The articulation of that technique is generally considered the intellectual property of the submitting user.



--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


Edited by Crasher (01/08/08 04:52 PM)


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Crasher]
    #7849089 - 01/08/08 05:06 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

I would gladly link Roger's page instead of mine. Consider it done.

You are correct, I should not, do not, nor would claim to have ever grown illegal mushrooms like you guys have.

I will link to Roger's tek, who's Casing Tek should I link to?


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Offlinelikwid
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7849510 - 01/08/08 06:10 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

However, drywall contains synthetic binders and fire retardants, and is not organic. Eating fruits from organisms that consumed synthetic binders and fire retardents puts you at risk to also consume those chemicals. Not to mention breaking up drywall is nasty, messy work.




True it is not organic, but not all drywall contains fire retardants. I should know I sell drywall. Drywall that is fire retardant (at my place of work) has "FIRE CORE" in big letters on the label. You're right about the synthetic binders though...but I have no idea if they are harmful or not.

Also, it does suck to break up. I wish there was a faster way than a hammer, but I haven't found one yet.


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: likwid]
    #7849563 - 01/08/08 06:19 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

C4 and water.= water impulse.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Crasher]
    #7854100 - 01/09/08 02:48 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Not catching your bizarre reference to explosives.


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7854327 - 01/09/08 03:35 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

I wasn't replying to you.

I was proposing an alternative method of breaking up drywall.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Crasher]
    #7854339 - 01/09/08 03:36 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Does drywall break up if you soak it in water?


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Invisiblexdaveman
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7854544 - 01/09/08 04:05 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

i am a little confused right now.
i thought you only would use perlite for humidity. what does it add to a casing?
also i was under the impression that you should not have any nutrients in your casing. is there some kind of Coco coir that doesnt have any?
thanx.


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InvisibleDontPlay
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: xdaveman]
    #7854659 - 01/09/08 04:27 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

That makes you look like a hypocrit CC , you just told me in the Help with Casing thread that Coir was not to be used in casings. Yet its on your master list of things needed to make the best casing LOL . I don't understand you.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: DontPlay]
    #7854786 - 01/09/08 04:54 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

DontPlay said:
That makes you look like a hypocrite CC , you just told me in the Help with Casing thread that Coir was not to be used in casings. Yet its on your master list of things needed to make the best casing LOL . I don't understand you.




No you don't understand, the coir is used as 50% of the bulk sub, not in the casing, read the whole post, and my casing tek.

I also list rye berries as one of the 7, but surely I don't mean mix them in your casing layer.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: xdaveman]
    #7854850 - 01/09/08 05:05 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

xdaveman said:
i am a little confused right now.
i thought you only would use perlite for humidity. what does it add to a casing?
also i was under the impression that you should not have any nutrients in your casing. is there some kind of Coco coir that doesnt have any?
thanx.




THis is the exact reason you shouldn't be as enthisiastic about making posts CC. You confuse people.

Perlite is used essentially for humidification but some people use it in casings to improve it's texture and airiness, the same as you use it in plant soil for this reason.

On Coco coir. A few years back we all used coir as a casing material (as we use peat) due to it's great water holding properties.

Then, a few members started to realize that it could be used as a substrate, and that meant it had nutes, and so wasn't ideal as a casing ingredient.

So while coir can be used as a casing ingredient, it isn't the best of them. In fact a common problem it caused was overlay, which is when the mycelium over colonizes the casing layer (which it tended to do with coir as it has nutes) and matts down, inhibiting pinning and water absorbtion.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Nibin]
    #7854900 - 01/09/08 05:13 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

LOL good point CC no I wouldn't mix rye berry's with my casing material lol. However you will and can confuse people. Isn't "your" casing tek an old tek of someone elses that you just rewrote ?


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: DontPlay]
    #7855029 - 01/09/08 05:46 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

This whole thing is so ridiculous. It's because someone got confused not because of me.

He actually thought I meant to mix all 7 of those items for use as a casing layer.

I didn't advocate coir use in casing layers.

The post lists EVERYTHING you need to mix great casings.

It says nothing about spawning to bulk, which is assumed common knowledge if you are even considering a casing.

The casing link says to use 50/50+ peat/verm/oyster as a casing layer ON TOP OF coir/verm/gypsum.

What was confusing?

How could you mix great casings without a bulk substrate?


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855048 - 01/09/08 05:50 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

You don't have to use bulk substrates, you could easily fill the tray with grains, then case. It is not common knowledge if your thinking about casings.

Who actually thought you meant to mix all 7, it sure as hell wasn't me.

We now know you don't advocate using coir in casing's, even tho people use it and are very successful.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Nibin]
    #7855190 - 01/09/08 06:13 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Nibin said:
So while coir can be used as a casing ingredient, it isn't the best of them. In fact a common problem it caused was overlay, which is when the mycelium over colonizes the casing layer (which it tended to do with coir as it has nutes) and matts down, inhibiting pinning and water absorbtion.




Nibin, thank you for explaining overlay. I have been searching, without conviction albeit, and had yet to find a good definition of what it actually was. I'm about to spawn some WBS to coffee/coir and I wanted to get that vocab under my belt before I started it.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: BanjoMojo]
    #7855313 - 01/09/08 06:42 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

BanjoMojo said:
Quote:

Nibin said:
So while coir can be used as a casing ingredient, it isn't the best of them. In fact a common problem it caused was overlay, which is when the mycelium over colonizes the casing layer (which it tended to do with coir as it has nutes) and matts down, inhibiting pinning and water absorbtion.




Nibin, thank you for explaining overlay. I have been searching, without conviction albeit, and had yet to find a good definition of what it actually was. I'm about to spawn some WBS to coffee/coir and I wanted to get that vocab under my belt before I started it.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=60&Number=3290155&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=

Best thread there is related to overlay.

CC. The confusion is caused by you. In the first place you shouldn't be using an ambiguous term like casing. By using casing you might mean the whole tray of substrate plus casing layer but others might mean just the casing layer.

Use the specific terms casing layer and cased substrate.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Nibin]
    #7855356 - 01/09/08 06:52 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

CC. The confusion is caused by you. In the first place you shouldn't be using an ambiguous term like casing. By using casing you might mean the whole tray of substrate plus casing layer but others might mean just the casing layer.
-Nibin

Casing refers to the whole thing, which is a bulk sub with a casing layer on top.

Would you say, "place the casing into the FC", or "place the tray filled with bulk substrate with a casing layer on top in the FC."


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855368 - 01/09/08 06:55 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
CC. The confusion is caused by you. In the first place you shouldn't be using an ambiguous term like casing. By using casing you might mean the whole tray of substrate plus casing layer but others might mean just the casing layer.
-Nibin

Casing refers to the whole thing, which is a bulk sub with a casing layer on top.

Would you say, "place the casing into the FC", or "place the tray filled with bulk substrate with a casing layer on top in the FC."




Unless the context was totally clear I'd say place your cased substrate in the FC.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Nibin]
    #7855385 - 01/09/08 06:58 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Alright, so are you suggesting I change the title of the post to "...to case a substrate and where to get them."

Seems a little nit picky, wish someone else would chime in on the casing term.

I would say tray or casing, since a casing layer without a substrate under it does not really exist.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855410 - 01/09/08 07:02 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Casing refers to the whole thing, which is a bulk sub with a casing layer on top.





This is exactly why we BEG new growers to learn the ropes and complete a successful grow before they start posting 'teks', which are only going to further confuse new people.

The term casing does NOT refer to the whole thing. Casing refers to the non-nutritious layer on top of a substrate.


Quote:

Would you say, "place the casing into the FC", or "place the tray filled with bulk substrate with a casing layer on top in the FC."






Neither. You would say, "place the cased substrate into the FC"

The nomenclature that has evolved serves the purpose very well. The problem is with people throwing around terms they don't understand, which makes it almost impossible for new folks to learn. I can't emphasize enough the importance of learning a subject first, before trying to teach it to someone else.
RR


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855415 - 01/09/08 07:03 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Then Casing material if you prefer.

But because some people will use "casing" to refer to the casing material/layer (which I, personally, think is the correct use) and others use it to describe the whole substrate plus casing layer in a tray shebang, you should try to be more specific.

I'd have used: The only 7 ingredients to grow great cased substrates.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7855440 - 01/09/08 07:07 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Casing refers to the whole thing, which is a bulk sub with a casing layer on top.





This is exactly why we BEG new growers to learn the ropes and complete a successful grow before they start posting 'teks', which are only going to further confuse new people.

The term casing does NOT refer to the whole thing. Casing refers to the non-nutritious layer on top of a substrate.


Quote:

Would you say, "place the casing into the FC", or "place the tray filled with bulk substrate with a casing layer on top in the FC."






Neither. You would say, "place the cased substrate into the FC"

The nomenclature that has evolved serves the purpose very well. The problem is with people throwing around terms they don't understand, which makes it almost impossible for new folks to learn. I can't emphasize enough the importance of learning a subject first, before trying to teach it to someone else.
RR




Will RR backing me up finally convince you?

CC, I know you have good intentions. I like your idea of trying to collect useful links for future visitors but you really have to learn to jump before you try to leap.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7855474 - 01/09/08 07:11 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:


Neither. You would say, "place the cased substrate into the FC"

The nomenclature that has evolved serves the purpose very well. The problem is with people throwing around terms they don't understand, which makes it almost impossible for new folks to learn. I can't emphasize enough the importance of learning a subject first, before trying to teach it to someone else.
RR




I disagree Roger, do a search, most people call it a casing despite what you declare.


Cased Substrate is not easier to type then casing, and if you type them enough, your insistence on your nomenclature will waste many hours.

I am sure you are technically correct, you always are, but grammar and names mean little.

Goggle memes, tha't where it's at.

People should settle on what is easiest, not technical.

According to you people need to ask, "when can I place me cased substrate in my FC".

But isn't casing quicker to type?

I call rye berries RBs, hasn't caught on yet, but it makes sense, it's faster. Would you have me say rye berries or RBs?


Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/09/08 07:18 PM)


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855499 - 01/09/08 07:15 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:


Neither. You would say, "place the cased substrate into the FC"

The nomenclature that has evolved serves the purpose very well. The problem is with people throwing around terms they don't understand, which makes it almost impossible for new folks to learn. I can't emphasize enough the importance of learning a subject first, before trying to teach it to someone else.
RR




I disagree Roger, do a search, most people call it a casing despite what you declare.


Cased Substrate is not easier to type then casing, and if you type them enough, your insistence on your nomenclature will waste many hours.





They call it casing because of people like you making teks where they wrote it wrong just like this one.

Alot of people call Soil dirt but it don't make it dirt.

EDITED:opps sorry got in your quote


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: MYSTIQUE]
    #7855583 - 01/09/08 07:28 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Yeah, I know, but it's like the teacher telling you to use the proper terminology, or do not use contractions.

Roger is correct of course, casing is the top layer only, but my point is when is there a casing layer without a substrate?

There can be a substrate without a casing layer, a substrate with a casing layer, but no casing layer without a substrate.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855610 - 01/09/08 07:32 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:


Neither. You would say, "place the cased substrate into the FC"

The nomenclature that has evolved serves the purpose very well. The problem is with people throwing around terms they don't understand, which makes it almost impossible for new folks to learn. I can't emphasize enough the importance of learning a subject first, before trying to teach it to someone else.
RR




I disagree Roger, do a search, most people call it a casing despite what you declare.


Cased Substrate is not easier to type then casing, and if you type them enough, your insistence on your nomenclature will waste many hours.

I am sure you are technically correct, you always are, but grammar and names mean little.

Goggle memes, tha't where it's at.

People should settle on what is easiest, not technical.

According to you people need to ask, "when can I place me cased substrate in my FC".

But isn't casing quicker to type?

I call rye berries RBs, hasn't caught on yet, but it makes sense, it's faster. Would you have me say rye berries or RBs?





What most people do doesn't make it correct.

If most people thought like you, use the easy name, not the correct one, we would be all still in caves calling everything UG.

Correct naming of thing is very important, especially in anything Science related. A wrong, or unspecific name can cause a lot of problems.

I could call Hydrated Lime just Lime, assuming everyone knew what I meant, but then someone would go out and buy quicklime (it is a kind of Lime) and fuck up their casing mix and probably burn themselves badly in the process.

Also, you talk about saving time. If it was your way, think of all the extra hours we would spend typing casing LAYER or MIXTURE each time we wanted to refer exclusively to that, when we could have just used casing if everyone used the names correctly.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855629 - 01/09/08 07:34 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Yeah, I know, but it's like the teacher telling you to use the proper terminology, or do not use contractions.

Roger is correct of course, casing is the top layer only, but my point is when is there a casing layer without a substrate?

There can be a substrate without a casing layer, a substrate with a casing layer, but no casing layer without a substrate.




And what do you call the combination of peat, hydrated lime and crushed oyster while you are mixing it up or discussing it?


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Nibin]
    #7855705 - 01/09/08 07:42 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Fine fine, you are right, I am wrong, casing is only the top layer.

This is exactly why we BEG new growers to learn the ropes and complete a successful grow before they start posting 'teks', which are only going to further confuse new people. The term casing does NOT refer to the whole thing. Casing refers to the non-nutritious layer on top of a substrate.
RR

Not sure what terms have to do with actually growing but, sure you are right.

Hey Roger, link us to your Casing Tek, and your Spawn Tek, and your LC Tek, and your Spore Print Tek, and your Shotgun FC Tek, and your Cloning Tek, and your Isolation Tek.

Oh, that's right, there are no links to them, you have to buy the DVD.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855737 - 01/09/08 07:47 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

All you need to do is ask and I am sure he would answer in detail.

I'm not going to start searching for old posts, but for example, he posted his Spawn tek (his way of preparing rye) just a few days ago and you yourself admitted to taking it and reformatting it.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Nibin]
    #7855756 - 01/09/08 07:51 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

That was Roger's rye berry tek, which I didn't list above.

I love the title of that one, "My Rye Tek", what ownership.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7855782 - 01/09/08 07:57 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
That was Roger's rye berry tek, which I didn't list above.

I love the title of that one, "My Rye Tek", what ownership.




Rye berry is a Spawn.

Tek = Technique = way of doing things.

My way of doing something will be my tek, your way will be captaincubensis tek. It doesn't matter if others do it the same way, if it was done before, it is still your way of doing it and so your tek.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Nibin]
    #7855858 - 01/09/08 08:11 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Can somebody lock this thread before this noob foolishness goes any further?

And people, you need to quit encouraging CC. If people didn't keep bumping his threads he'd go away. He does like to bump his own threads, he did it three times in this thread alone. But he'll soon be banned if he keeps it up.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: fastfred]
    #7855881 - 01/09/08 08:15 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

:lockdance: :lockdance: :lockdance:

How's that for childish Cap'n?


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7856145 - 01/09/08 09:10 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Just because something is easier doesn't make it correct. People who use abbreviations are only making younger generations more retarded. Not only is it incorrect it also makes you look less intelligent. It's cool your trying to get a rep for helping people out but like everyone is trying to tell you get the information correct before you make several post a day offering advice. Theres been several times this week alone RR and Nibin had to correct your info that you were giving to new members.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7856540 - 01/09/08 10:18 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
That was Roger's rye berry tek, which I didn't list above.

I love the title of that one, "My Rye Tek", what ownership.




TEK (which stands for Traditional Ecological Knowledge) is just a particular way of doing things. If RR has done something a particular way and it works, he can pass that on to us as a tek. If he wanted to call it the Dingleberry tek, he could, but "My Rye Tek" gets the point across just fine.


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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: BanjoMojo]
    #7856779 - 01/09/08 10:58 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

ok for captain cubensis what I would suggest for you is to go into your journal and make these posts and link to all of the informative teks that you like. put together the walk through. then put a link to your information in your sig. when ever you give good advise to people they'll see your sig and be able to check out what you have to offer.

besides that it seems like the last thing I remember abut your grows was that you where cultivating from cakes and that you;ve never done a cased substrate. I would highlyrecomend that you wait until you have the proper experience before flooding the forums with cultivation tips that are beyond your current relm of cultivation skills.

noticing how interested you are in putting together cultivation advice for other members I would suggest that you take the time to document what you are doing. take good notes and pictures. then build your own proper beginning to end tek on how you did it. alon with pictures and what ever input from your EXPERIENCE that you have. key word experience. really coming past the introductive level that you currently are at to be able to relay the proper information.

the clutter that is caused in the forum becaue of your full hearted, but half assed posts pisses people off and confuses noobs. the real help being done on the forum is by members that scroll through posts on the first few pages with questions ad leading them to the answers they need.

I pretty much never give advise about cakes because I never worked with them. but I will help people with what I do know about.

experience is what will make you most helpful to the community so start working on more projects and make a contribution that way.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Posts: 648
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7859702 - 01/10/08 02:02 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Casing refers to the whole thing, which is a bulk sub with a casing layer on top.





This is exactly why we BEG new growers to learn the ropes and complete a successful grow before they start posting 'teks', which are only going to further confuse new people.

The term casing does NOT refer to the whole thing. Casing refers to the non-nutritious layer on top of a substrate.


Quote:

Would you say, "place the casing into the FC", or "place the tray filled with bulk substrate with a casing layer on top in the FC."






Neither. You would say, "place the cased substrate into the FC"

The nomenclature that has evolved serves the purpose very well. The problem is with people throwing around terms they don't understand, which makes it almost impossible for new folks to learn. I can't emphasize enough the importance of learning a subject first, before trying to teach it to someone else.
RR




Well, technically Roger's video should be called, "Let's Cultivate Mushrooms", not "Let's Grow Mushroom."

Since a person can't grow a mushroom, but he could cultivate a mushroom and providing condition beneficial to mushroom growth. Such as allowing myc to colonize coir, then to grow it's fruits on cased substrate.

Get your nomenclature right bud!


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7859738 - 01/10/08 02:09 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

From the miriam websters online dictionary.

One of the definitions of grow:
Quote:

1 a: to cause to grow <grow wheat>




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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7859756 - 01/10/08 02:11 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:

Well, technically Roger's video should be called, "Let's Cultivate Mushrooms", not "Let's Grow Mushroom."

Since a person can't grow a mushroom, but he could cultivate a mushroom and providing condition beneficial to mushroom growth. Such as allowing myc to colonize coir, then to grow it's fruits on cased substrate.

Get your nomenclature right bud!




If you want to get technical, you're not cultivating mushrooms. You're cultivating mycelium and the mycelium cultivates the mushroom.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Fraggin]
    #7859791 - 01/10/08 02:18 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Trust me, it's cultivate, that's the proper term, not grow.

Roger won't respond to this post will he?

My point here is, if we spend so much time on semantics and bickering about exact terms, not ways that work, we all get lowered to that level.

To take the time to correct someones use of a term without adding any beneficial information is mean spirited.


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7859810 - 01/10/08 02:21 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Your repeated attacks against RR, both overtly and covertly, make me believe that you're more focused on disproving his advice than providing anything of substance yourself.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7859855 - 01/10/08 02:28 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Trust me, it's cultivate, that's the proper term, not grow.

Roger won't respond to this post will he?

My point here is, if we spend so much time on semantics and bickering about exact terms, not ways that work, we all get lowered to that level.

To take the time to correct someones use of a term without adding any beneficial information is mean spirited.




Yes, I know I said I wouldn't answer. Just one last one.

No, I won't trust you, I'll trust a dictionary thank you very much.


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OfflineMYSTIQUE
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Crasher]
    #7859907 - 01/10/08 02:37 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Your repeated attacks against RR, both overtly and covertly, make me believe that you're more focused on disproving his advice than providing anything of substance yourself.




Sounds like thats his plan.

RR has been doing this longer then you have been alive CC.

In your 2 weeks of research You have recycled soooo much garbage in a mix of ideas teks and failed experiments from other people into New teks that just wont work. 10% gypsum? That was a good Tek to kill your mysc. Always helping the new guys mess their projects up thats what you are doing.

Put these in your journal PLEASE.


--------------------
Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS
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I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt                         
Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt
Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet
Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat,

:onfire:DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!:onfire:


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: MYSTIQUE]
    #7860108 - 01/10/08 03:16 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Like I said, what is incorrect about the post?

Vague attacks on credibility are lame.

Is there any information contained in that post that is incorrect?


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InvisibleDontPlay
Yeah Science!
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Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 750
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Re: Mycology Simplified: The only 7 ingredients you need to grow great casings, and where to get the [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7860334 - 01/10/08 04:10 PM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:


Also, the grade is rarely mentioned, and people can easily think that fine verm works as well as medium verm, which it does not, get medium grade vermiculite Therm-O-Rock.





Well who says fine grade does not work ? I happen to use it and I think it holds in moisture very nicely.

Quote:


People mention peat, but rarely mention it has to be the fine peat, with no strands or chunks of wood. Most commercial peat had a wetting agent added, and is not true organic like Sunshine.





This has been discussed before plenty of people use peat with a little bit of "strands and chunks" in it. If you sterilized it properly it shouldn't matter.Do they not grow in the wild just because of some strands and chunks.

Quote:


The oyster flour listed above is used in commercial mushroom farms, and is the preferred choice of most of the old hands here. It is a good alternative to hydrated lime, which is caustic, and not recommended for amateurs.





Who doesn't recommend this for amateur's ? Do you work for one of these organic earth material company's ?Trying to make some money,if it's sponsorship you looking for I'm sure you can discuss that with the owners of the site.

Quote:


Quote:
Everything but perlite and vermiculite needs to be ground up and fine, the perlite and vermiculite must be medium grade, not fine, or large.





That's more of an opinion that a Fact. Just because you suggest it doesn't make it true. So you asked what parts of that weren't true there you go.


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