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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: johnm214]
#7859473 - 01/10/08 01:23 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Thanks John!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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OneMoreRobot3021



Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
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Well, CNN decided this story deserved mention on their front page. That's another ouch for the Paul campaign.
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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BrAiN
Art Fag


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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The missing marine in that pic looks just like Brittney Spears
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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How do you ouch a guy coming in 5th place out of 7?
Doing it alone makes one wonder if that 5th place out of 7th is really true.
What is CNN wasting their coverage time for? To knock Paul down below Hunter? 
Anyway, MSNBC is having Paul on today to clear it up , AGAIN. Gee didn't we do this 6 months ago and then everyone dropped it.
When are they going to start reporting on the Black supremest, racist Church, national front runner, Obama belongs too??
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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It was CNN that just brought him on to clear it up with Blitz. Ron got pissed off too and I don't blame him. I hope he keeps that fire for the Republican debate tonight in SC
Part 1 is the dish of dirt, near the end of it and then in part 2 is where RP mops the floor with every jack ass trying to smear him with this crap.
Can we let it die now???
Part One
Part Two
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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OneMoreRobot3021



Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
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Looking forward to checking those out when I get home tonight.
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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gettinjiggywithit said: Can we let it die now???
if Paul was a frontrunner it would be 24/7
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: lonestar2004]
#7860678 - 01/10/08 05:16 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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awesome, he would pardon all nonviolent drug offenders
:-)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
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Quote:
Part 1 is the dish of dirt, near the end of it and then in part 2 is where RP mops the floor with every jack ass trying to smear him with this crap.
Oh, please. Blitzer was about as gentle as he could be, and Paul still sputtered all over the place with irrelevancies, dodging the questions and trying to change the subject.
When Blitzer asked him if he'd ever read them, Paul sat there like a deer in the headlights. You could almost see the gears spinning furiously as he tried to figure out which was the answer least likely to play badly, then he unerringly chose the most damaging and least believable stance -- no, he hadn't seen them.
Give me a break, Dr. Paul. If this is so old and has been re-hashed so many times in the past that it irritates you to have to do it again, how can you possibly expect anyone with an IQ higher than a turnip to believe you never got around to reading this stuff?
He also makes much of being re-elected many times. He seems to think this proves the voters knew he didn't write what appeared in his newsletters. There is of course another possibility -- that quite a few of his voters agree with what was written in the newsletters, or at the very least (like more than one shroomerite posting in this thread) don't find it objectionable.
Quote:
Can we let it die now???
Sure we can let it die now. It's all a sideshow anyway, since he never stood a snowball's chance in hell of being the Republican choice from the get go, no matter how many millions he's been able to raise. It does however answer the question of why Stormfront and other neo-Nazi types have seen fit to support him.
Phred
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: Phred]
#7860935 - 01/10/08 06:33 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Phred,
Blitz never said he believed Paul wrote that stuff and later said, he believed Paul did not write it. He had every reason to be gentle and he was never anyone I was aiming the floor mopping comment at.
It was aimed at anyone who would believe such a thing.
Of course Paul has heard of it, during the numerous rehashes where they keep coming up every time he ran for Congress. Of course Paul got confused by such a dumb question.
The No was for his not having read them at the time they were being sent out.
Did you hear Paul? The newsletter had a circulation of 600,000 subscribers. It had an editor, that was not Paul and several writers, none of which were Paul at the time. Paul was busy with his OBGYN work and traveling during the years that stuff was written.
of course he is flustered to be called on something he admittedly wasn't that involved with, that happened decades ago, and none the less, he repudiated it all and said he finds it abhorrent to his values. He further carried on about how his liefs works and speeches support his beliefs in individual and equal rights and that his libertarian values are the enemy to racism.
What more do you want from the man???
Anyway,
MLK and RP have been fighting the same fight and are on the same team. Watch it till the end, they are the same and these false smears are sad.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: Phred]
#7862743 - 01/10/08 11:36 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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you gotta have the IQ of a turnip to think that Rp would be "surprised" at that question. I just watched it... deer in headlights is quite possibly the biggest hyperbole ever to describe that pause.... I have seen bigger pauses due to teleconference latency. oh wait.. why dont you go listen to the pause between every single question that Blitzer asks and compare it to that pause.... the exact same lapse... latency.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Quote:
Martin Luther King Jr. earned special ire from Paul's newsletters, which attacked the civil rights leader frequently, often to justify opposition to the federal holiday named after him. ("What an infamy Ronald Reagan approved it!" one newsletter complained in 1990. "We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day.") In the early 1990s, a newsletter attacked the "X-Rated Martin Luther King" as a "world-class philanderer who beat up his paramours," "seduced underage girls and boys," and "made a pass at" fellow civil rights leader Ralph Abernathy. One newsletter ridiculed black activists who wanted to rename New York City after King, suggesting that "Welfaria," "Zooville," "Rapetown," "Dirtburg," and "Lazyopolis" were better alternatives. The same year, King was described as "a comsymp, if not an actual party member, and the man who replaced the evil of forced segregation with the evil of forced integration."
This thread seems pretty beat, but I was reading this comment and it reminded me of some comments Hitchens makes about King in God is Not Great. It seems there is a side to MLK that has been completely glossed over with time.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7862874 - 01/10/08 11:56 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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yeah the only one where there wasn't a lag in the question and answer was where blitzer asked a question and continued for a few words and pual jumped in (probably in the middle of him hearing blitzer talking on his end)
but whatever, I doubt paul is telling all he knows about this, but I don't really care. a vote for him is a vote for his economic and social policy and message, and everyone knows it
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: johnm214]
#7863016 - 01/11/08 12:32 AM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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I posted this in the other thread about candidates and their bigotries and meant to post it here.
A Paulite elsewhere researched this to help clear thing up-
Quote:
The "writer" of the racist newslettes writes "I bought my first copy of the men's fashion magazine GQ..." http://www.tnr.com/downloads/March1990.pdf
But in a conversation written in an article by the New York Times from this summer, Paul has no idea what that magazine is.
"“GQ wants to profile you on Thursday,” Benton continues. “I think it’s worth doing.”
“GTU?” the candidate replies.
“GQ. It’s a men’s magazine.”
“Don’t know much about that,” Paul says. " http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/ma.../22Paul-t.html
Hopefully my quick google search can clear up some misconceptions people have about Paul.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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From http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/10/video-only-man-who-can-save-america-spins-like-a-top-while-sandbagging-wolf-blitzer/
Quote:
Can anyone but the most credulous Ronulans on the face of the earth buy the spin that Ron Paul a) doesn’t know who wrote his newsletter, b) he can’t find out who wrote it and that c) he never even read it for all those years? That’s his defense. He even compared it to a magazine owner who doesn’t know everything that goes into the magazines he publishes, which is absurd. His newsletter wasn’t a sprawling, international operation with bureaus stretching from Texas to Moscow to Beijing, Baghdad and beyond: It was a newsletter put together with desktop publishing software by someone that he, Ron Paul, hired to put it together. Its purpose was to put Ron Paul’s world view out there for his fans to read. If the Ron Paul newsletter wasn’t representing the Ron Paul world view, what was its purpose? I’m sure the Paul supporters that we have around here will do their absolute best to defend and explain this, but Paul’s spin really is an insult to their and everyone else’s intelligence. It makes no sense from any angle.
If his spin is true, then take it for what it is: Ron Paul is so incompetent that he’s not only not fit to run the executive branch or a Dairy Queen, he’s not even fit to write a check. That is what he was doing all those years, writing checks to people who were publishing nonsense in his name, people he can’t identify now who he now claims were writing things that he didn’t even believe. But he was such a hands-off guy that he never bothered to take an editorial look at what they were writing, across a decade. Talk about an easy boss.
On the other hand, if his spin is not true, then he’s lying now and he really did believe all that back when it was published and may still believe it. And if he’s lying, he’s not quite the principled patriot that his fans believe he is.
But do you know what irks me most about this interview? It’s the way Wolf Blitzer just lets Paul sandbag him with long, irrelevant answers. He lets Paul rant on and on about what a great, tolerant guy he is, and never once brings up any of the angles I brought up in my post about Paul’s newsletters yesterday — http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/09/the-problem-with-paul/ — the association with Truthers, the donation from Stormfront, any of it. Blitzer did a terrible job in this interview, and whiffed on a chance to put Paul out of the race once and for all. He left that job to the other GOP candidates in tonight’s debate, and I wonder if he didn’t do that intentionally.
Apart from that last bit about knocking Paul "out of the race" (he was never in the race to begin with), this guy nails it. Since I know few readers will bother to check the embedded link in the above cut and paste, here it is --
Quote:
We have a little unfinished business from yesterday. Allah had the post — TNR’s James Kirchick tracked down some old Ron Paul newsletters and found them…disturbing. Now, looking over Kirchick’s work, I have to agree with Ace that the TNR scribe steals some bases by including marginal quotes that aren’t on their face racist or crazy. It was, for instance, not insane to postulate that South Africa would become a killing ground after apartheid’s end. That’s not an argument for apartheid, by the way, or for maintaining the status quo there. It was a plausible prediction based on Africa’s terrible history of tribal and racial warfare, history that continues to this day in Zimbabwe, Sudan and elsewhere. Thankfully that prediction didn’t come to pass, and history records Nelson Mandela as the main reason why. By including that kind of material along with the truly objectionable material, Kirchick suggests a whole line of topics are entering a new taboo.
But even if you weed out the marginal stuff, there’s much, much more there and it’s bad. There’s support for David Duke.
Quote:
While bashing King, the newsletters had kind words for the former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke. In a passage titled “The Duke’s Victory,” a newsletter celebrated Duke’s 44 percent showing in the 1990 Louisiana Republican Senate primary. “Duke lost the election,” it said, “but he scared the blazes out of the Establishment.” In 1991, a newsletter asked, “Is David Duke’s new prominence, despite his losing the gubernatorial election, good for anti-big government forces?” The conclusion was that “our priority should be to take the anti-government, anti-tax, anti-crime, anti-welfare loafers, anti-race privilege, anti-foreign meddling message of Duke, and enclose it in a more consistent package of freedom.” Duke is now returning the favor, telling me that, while he will not formally endorse any candidate, he has made information about Ron Paul available on his website.
There’s paranoid support for the militia movement.
Quote:
In January 1995, three months before right-wing militants bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, a newsletter listed “Ten Militia Commandments,” describing “the 1,500 local militias now training to defend liberty” as “one of the most encouraging developments in America.” It warned militia members that they were “possibly under BATF [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms] or other totalitarian federal surveillance” and printed bits of advice from the Sons of Liberty, an anti-government militia based in Alabama–among them, “You can’t kill a Hydra by cutting off its head,” “Keep the group size down,” “Keep quiet and you’re harder to find,” “Leave no clues,” “Avoid the phone as much as possible,” and “Don’t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.”
There’s veiled anti-Semitism combined with rank stupidity.
Quote:
Of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, a newsletter said, “Whether it was a setup by the Israeli Mossad, as a Jewish friend of mine suspects, or was truly a retaliation by the Islamic fundamentalists, matters little.”
Right. The actual perps and their motive “matters little,” except that Paul continually trots out the trope that the jihadis are motivated not by what their religion teaches them but by the fact that our troops protect their countries from other hostile countries. Surely even he can see that Mossad and al Qaeda would have different motives for attacking the US, even if he’s nutty enough to believe that Mossad would actually attack the US.
Paul’s defense of these newsletters has evolved over time, from the offending lines having been “taken out of context” to having been ghost-written by some unknown, not to him but to us, figure. *** Note from Phred -- Paul told Blitzer yesterday that even he (Paul) doesn't know who wrote the stuff. *** Eric Dondero, who was Paul’s employee for years, says the ghost writer was Lew Rockwell. That’s very plausible; Paul and Rockwell are ideologically similar. Rockwell’s site is one of many online bastions for defenses of All Things Paul.
But here’s the thing about all of this. To borrow Paul’s spin on the 1993 WTC bombing, it actually does matter little if Paul wrote the crazy himself or had it ghostwritten under his own name. There’s a pattern developing with the Paul campaign that’s become too obvious to ignore. We have a pile of newsletters containing the more than occasional crazy. We have Paul being photographed with members of Stormfront, from whom he accepts donations. And we have Paul supporters celebrating terrorist Guy Fawkes on their big Ron Paul fundraiser day. And we have a mob of Paul supporters harassing Sean Hannity with obscenities. And despite the fact that Paul says he’s not a Truther, he has undeniably courted the Truther vote by hanging out with uber Truther Alex Jones.
Anything in the above paragraph, seen in isolation, is disturbing. But taken all together, it’s clarifying. Ron Paul isn’t just a “small government, constitutionalist libertarian.” I wish he was; that’s how he has long sold himself to the good people who have supported him all these years. But the truth is that he’s bad and many of his friends are worse. A vote for him is a vote for them. Yet Andrew Sullivan and his fellow prominent Paul supporters like NRO’s John Derbyshire remain blissfully unconcerned about it. This is serious stuff, but it hasn’t made a difference to them at all. Coming from any other candidate, and especially one they had not already publicly supported, it’s reasonable to expect that their reactions would be very, very different. Sullivan for one has treated terrorist propaganda about torture with far less caution than he’s showing with regard to Paul’s newsletters.
Back to the newsletter and then I’m done. Let’s take Paul’s latest defense at face value for a second. The best that can be said about it is that he mismanaged a newsletter and turned it over to cranks who don’t represent his views. Set aside that there’s a remarkable consistency between the views expressed in the newsletters and the views many of his supporters hold now. If Paul really didn’t write the most risible material in that newsletter, and if the ghostwriters really don’t represent his views, then he isn’t even competent enough to manage a newsletter in a way that keeps out the riffraff and represents his own thinking. Paul supporters still want to turn the executive branch of the government over to someone who exhibits this level of incompetence across a stretch of years?
I’m sorry, but that’s insane. Ron Paul has many honorable supporters among the crowd who genuinely believe that he’s just a small-government libertarian. Most of his supporters are probably of that stripe, and not part of the the Duke/Rockwell/Stormfront/Truther wing of the Paul movement at all. Now is the time for them to examine the evidence and choose whether continued support for Paul and his mob is wise or moral.
There are quite a few embedded links in there which I can't be bothered to set up. If you want to investigate them, be my guest.
As the writer I've linked notes, if this kind of thing had been published over the course of five or more years in (for example) "The Romney Report", none of y'all would be scrambling to excuse it.
Phred
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BrAiN
Art Fag


Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: Phred]
#7863839 - 01/11/08 07:05 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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I figured Phred, you of all people, would be a fan of Ron Paul.
Didn't you move to the Dominican republic to get away from a system that taxed the fuck outta you and got all up in your business?
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: BrAiN]
#7863871 - 01/11/08 07:24 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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I like a lot of the things Paul claims to like. But a lot of the rest of the stuff he claims to like is just loony. And the man himself is a crank.
Having said that, if he were to run for president as the Libertarian Party candidate, and I were a US citizen, I would vote for him. But that's because I believe it is always better to vote Libertarian Party in presidential elections than to vote Repub or Dem -- regardless of who the actual candidates might be. It's a "message" voting strategy.
Phred
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BrAiN
Art Fag


Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: Phred]
#7863884 - 01/11/08 07:32 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Describe loony? Eliminating the IRS? Getting rid of the 100's of bases we have in foreign countries?
Or just the GENERAL overall massive changes that would happen if he were in office?
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BrAiN
Art Fag


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: BrAiN]
#7863952 - 01/11/08 08:12 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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just seems like ppl bitch and whine about shit all the time and when someone tries to DO something about it.... ppl just label him as a loon
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Quote:
OneLessForeskin said: I find the argument that he didn't know people were writing this shit under his name, or that he knew but was unable to stop it...well, it just reeks of bullshit.
I agree with you that it's likely bullshit that he didn't know that these things were being published. Paul really got put to a sticky decision regarding how to respond to the statements. A.) Risk looking racist by trying to explain why he said what he said in the publications. B.) Risk looking like an incompetent loon by denying having any knowledge of what was in the publications. If he honestly had no clue about these statements that makes me question whether or not he'd be a competent president. If he can't keep track of statements published in his own newsletter why should I believe he could keep track of a whole country?
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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