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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch!
    #7847820 - 01/08/08 01:01 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

So I can't get the TNR article itself to load most likely because Drudge Report has it linked in bright red and the TNR site is probably overwhelmed with thru-traffic from Drudge. But here's another site where a writer (who is a libertarian and Ron Paul fan initially) takes a look at the TNR piece, pulls the most shocking pieces from it, and comes away finding that the "defense of Ron Paul is indefensible."

http://pajamasmedia.com/2008/01/ron_paul.php

Quote:

Racist Pull Quotes:

“[O]ur country is being destroyed by a group of actual and potential terrorists—and they can be identified by the color of their skin.”

“I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city [Washington, D.C.] are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”

“We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational.”

“The riots, burning, looting, and murders are only a continuation of 30 years of racial politics.”

“The criminals who terrorize our cities—in riots and on every non-riot day—are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white oppression is responsible for all black ills, to “fight the power,” and to steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible. Anything is justified against ‘The Man.’ And ‘The Woman.’’”

“My friend waved to the tiny [African-American] child, who scowled, stuck out her tongue, and said (somewhat tautologically): “I hate you, white honkey.” And the parents were indulgent. Is any white child taught to hate in this way?” [As a matter of fact, Paul has appeared on a radio program called “The Political Cesspool,” which has featured the neo-Nazi twin pop stars Prussian Blue. –ed.]

“But this is normal, and in fact benign, compared to much of the anti-white ideology in the thoroughly racist black community. The black leadership indoctrinates its followers with phony history and phony theory to bolster its claims of victimology.”

“Korean-Americans, hated by blacks, never riot, and in fact are some of the most productive people in America (the reason for black hatred).”

“The cause of the riots is plain: barbarism. If the barbarians cannot loot sufficiently through legal channels (i.e., the riots being the welfare-state minus the middleman), they resort to illegal ones, to terrorism.”

“We must not kowtow to the street hoodlums and their sanctimonious leaders.”

“Regardless of what the media tell us, most white Americans are not going to believe that they are at fault for what blacks have done to cities across America. The professional blacks may have cowed the elites, but good sense survives at the grass roots.”

“Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among blacks in this country.”

“Blacks have ‘civil rights,’ preferences, set-asides for government contracts, gerrymandered voting districts, black bureaucracies, black mayors, black curricula in schools, black beauty contests, black TV shows, black TV anchors, black scholarships and colleges, hate crime laws, and public humiliation for anyone who dares question the black agenda.”




Well I'm waiting till the TNR article itself is accessible before jumping the gun/forming an opinion just based on one blogger's take on an article I haven't read yet.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7847990 - 01/08/08 01:36 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Here's the TNR link, the article finally is reachable:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca

Quote:

If you are a critic of the Bush administration, chances are that, at some point over the past six months, Ron Paul has said something that appealed to you. Paul describes himself as a libertarian, but, since his presidential campaign took off earlier this year, the Republican congressman has attracted donations and plaudits from across the ideological spectrum. Antiwar conservatives, disaffected centrists, even young liberal activists have all flocked to Paul, hailing him as a throwback to an earlier age, when politicians were less mealy-mouthed and American government was more modest in its ambitions, both at home and abroad. In The New York Times Magazine, conservative writer Christopher Caldwell gushed that Paul is a "formidable stander on constitutional principle," while The Nation praised "his full-throated rejection of the imperial project in Iraq." Former TNR editor Andrew Sullivan endorsed Paul for the GOP nomination, and ABC's Jack Tapper described the candidate as "the one true straight-talker in this race." Even The Wall Street Journal, the newspaper of the elite bankers whom Paul detests, recently advised other Republican presidential contenders not to "dismiss the passion he's tapped."

... [cont'd at link]






--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7848022 - 01/08/08 01:43 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Yeah, I read that, too.

This is nothing new, though. A number of sites have discussed this hateful crap from his newsletters in the past. I recognized lots of the excerpts in this latest article from previous exposés.

The difference in this article is the thoroughness of the research. Seems this guy has unearthed if not every Ron Paul newsletter ever printed, then the largest publicly accessible archive of them.

It won't make any difference to most Ronulans, though.





Phred


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: Phred]
    #7848114 - 01/08/08 02:01 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Here are some gems (and I think all Ron Paul supporters reading this should take care to read the opening paragraphs in the above link and see that the author, as Phred said, did very meticulous research when writing the article, considering past claims of these quotes being "out of context):

Quote:

Martin Luther King Jr. earned special ire from Paul's newsletters, which attacked the civil rights leader frequently, often to justify opposition to the federal holiday named after him. ("What an infamy Ronald Reagan approved it!" one newsletter complained in 1990. "We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day.") In the early 1990s, a newsletter attacked the "X-Rated Martin Luther King" as a "world-class philanderer who beat up his paramours," "seduced underage girls and boys," and "made a pass at" fellow civil rights leader Ralph Abernathy. One newsletter ridiculed black activists who wanted to rename New York City after King, suggesting that "Welfaria," "Zooville," "Rapetown," "Dirtburg," and "Lazyopolis" were better alternatives. The same year, King was described as "a comsymp, if not an actual party member, and the man who replaced the evil of forced segregation with the evil of forced integration."




Quote:

While bashing King, the newsletters had kind words for the former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke. In a passage titled "The Duke's Victory," a newsletter celebrated Duke's 44 percent showing in the 1990 Louisiana Republican Senate primary. "Duke lost the election," it said, "but he scared the blazes out of the Establishment." In 1991, a newsletter asked, "Is David Duke's new prominence, despite his losing the gubernatorial election, good for anti-big government forces?" The conclusion was that "our priority should be to take the anti-government, anti-tax, anti-crime, anti-welfare loafers, anti-race privilege, anti-foreign meddling message of Duke, and enclose it in a more consistent package of freedom." Duke is now returning the favor, telling me that, while he will not formally endorse any candidate, he has made information about Ron Paul available on his website.




Quote:

In an item titled, "The Pink House?" the author of a newsletter--again, presumably Paul--complained about President George H.W. Bush's decision to sign a hate crimes bill and invite "the heads of homosexual lobbying groups to the White House for the ceremony," adding, "I miss the closet." "Homosexuals," it said, "not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities." When Marvin Liebman, a founder of the conservative Young Americans for Freedom and a longtime political activist, announced that he was gay in the pages of National Review, a Paul newsletter implored, "Bring Back the Closet!" Surprisingly, one item expressed ambivalence about the contentious issue of gays in the military, but ultimately concluded, "Homosexuals, if admitted, should be put in a special category and not allowed in close physical contact with heterosexuals."




Quote:

"Am I the only one sick of hearing about the 'rights' of AIDS carriers?" a newsletter asked in 1990. That same year, citing a Christian-right fringe publication, an item suggested that "the AIDS patient" should not be allowed to eat in restaurants and that "AIDS can be transmitted by saliva," which is false. [...] "gays in San Francisco do not obey the dictates of good sense," adding: "[T]hese men don't really see a reason to live past their fifties. They are not married, they have no children, and their lives are centered on new sexual partners." Also, "they enjoy the attention and pity that comes with being sick."




Quote:

From his newsletters, however, a different picture of Paul emerges--that of someone who is either himself deeply embittered or, for a long time, allowed others to write bitterly on his behalf.




Whether or not Ron Paul wrote the articles in question, he consistently published them right below a banner sporting his name.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7848125 - 01/08/08 02:03 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

I was wondering why the New Republic's site got overloaded earlier.

Fucked up.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: Gijith]
    #7848139 - 01/08/08 02:07 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Wow. I can't get over this article. Unless Ron Paul can quite convincingly refute this well-presented body of evidence, I absolutely have no desire to see him succeed in any political realm whatsoever.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7848339 - 01/08/08 02:44 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

OneLessForeskin said:
Wow. I can't get over this article. Unless Ron Paul can quite convincingly refute this well-presented body of evidence, I absolutely have no desire to see him succeed in any political realm whatsoever.



He didn't write or say ANY of that. He has addressed this before. People used his name and published stupid shit under it - he has condemned it.

This is a dirty trick from a dirty asshole - who actually admitted Paul hasn't said any of it, and supported his position by saying "But he did speak at a secession conference in 1995!!!"

god damnit.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: vampirism]
    #7848371 - 01/08/08 02:51 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

If you want to clarify who "a dirty asshole" is I'd like to know, maybe even give me a link to help change my mind about this? God damnit doesn't do much for me.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: vampirism]
    #7848429 - 01/08/08 03:06 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Although he can distance himself from anything written in The Freedom Report, he can't escape the Ron Paul Political Report.

Quote:

Take, for instance, a special issue of the Ron Paul Political Report, published in June 1992, dedicated to explaining the Los Angeles riots of that year. "Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began," read one typical passage. According to the newsletter, the looting was a natural byproduct of government indulging the black community with "'civil rights,' quotas, mandated hiring preferences, set-asides for government contracts, gerrymandered voting districts, black bureaucracies, black mayors, black curricula in schools, black tv shows, black tv anchors, hate crime laws, and public humiliation for anyone who dares question the black agenda." It also denounced "the media" for believing that "America's number one need is an unlimited white checking account for underclass blacks." To be fair, the newsletter did praise Asian merchants in Los Angeles, but only because they had the gumption to resist political correctness and fight back. Koreans were "the only people to act like real Americans," it explained, "mainly because they have not yet been assimilated into our rotten liberal culture, which admonishes whites faced by raging blacks to lie back and think of England."




Or from the Ron Paul Investment Letter

Quote:

This "Special Issue on Racial Terrorism" was hardly the first time one of Paul's publications had raised these topics. As early as December 1989, a section of his Investment Letter, titled "What To Expect for the 1990s," predicted that "Racial Violence Will Fill Our Cities" because "mostly black welfare recipients will feel justified in stealing from mostly white 'haves.'"




His name is on the masthead, that's all you need to know.


--------------------


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7848432 - 01/08/08 03:07 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

God forbid we "indulge the blacks with civil rights"!


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7848482 - 01/08/08 03:16 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

He's responded to a lot of those quotes... most of them aren't even from his mouth but from a newslatter of his. He says a lot of those racist quotes were printed by some of the editors under his name without his knowledge and has apologized, stating that they don't reflect his opinion at all.

Give me an audio or video quote of any of these coming out of his mouth and I'd be more convinced he's a racist.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: BrAiN]
    #7848499 - 01/08/08 03:20 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
He's responded to a lot of those quotes... most of them aren't even from his mouth but from a newslatter of his. He says a lot of those racist quotes were printed by some of the editors under his name without his knowledge and has apologized, stating that they don't reflect his opinion at all.




So a guy who lets racist, homophobic, anti-semitic slander get printed in his name without his knowledge, on his flagship newsletter, for 10 years...I should trust this guy to run my country?


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7848514 - 01/08/08 03:22 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

OneLessForeskin said:
If you want to clarify who "a dirty asshole" is I'd like to know, maybe even give me a link to help change my mind about this? God damnit doesn't do much for me.




sure.
this is a blog post on gays for ron paul by someone who knew the author of the TNR article. http://gays-for-ron.blogspot.com/2008/01/jamie-kirchick-i-dont-think-ron-paul-is.html
this shows the dirty, lying bastard part.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/125/ron-paul-statement-on-the-new-republic-article-regarding-old-newsletters
ron paul's personal response

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/018424.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/018422.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/018418.html
Lew Rockwell responds, also explains TNR principles.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7848518 - 01/08/08 03:23 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

I'd trust him more than a person who was 100% Iraq was close to building a nuke in 2003.

Nuke

Newletter

hmmm...

One is a bit more of an OOPS

Besides... doesn't the desire to decriminilize pot make up for that? :wink:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: BrAiN]
    #7848541 - 01/08/08 03:27 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Besides.. it's not like anyone is perfect. People make mistakes.

Everyone's trusted someone at one point in their life who shouldn't have been trusted.

This is pretty much the ONLY dirt that anyone can seem to drag up on Paul. It's pathetic.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7848542 - 01/08/08 03:28 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

I find it funny that the very thing ron paul was talking about like "public humiliation for anyone who dares question the black agenda" is the very reaction people have given it.

I dont find anything that he said to be offensive, or racist. it is sad that people are digging up letters from 20 years ago and then paraphrasing them in their blogs.... but whatever.
Go take a history lesson and dig up every single publication dealing with the prediction of crime in the 90's.... they will all say the very same thing. Everyone thought that there would be an immense rise in all crime, especially violent crime. The end of the 80's saw the crack boom at its pinnacle, which was primarily run by gangs of young black men, and our country saw the highest amoutn of black on black crimes and urban violence.
but they were all wrong.... why? because of Roe v. Wade and the legalization of abortion. there was actually a crime drop in the 90's, and it was directly due to the fact that unwanted, black children from broken homes werent being born in the exponential numbers that they were pre-RVW.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: vampirism]
    #7848546 - 01/08/08 03:29 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Blah blah blah...if Ron Paul disagrees with all these statements, why were they printed in his OFFICIAL NEWSLETTER, NUMEROUS TIMES? Ron Paul telling me he doesn't think these things doesn't go far at all.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7848560 - 01/08/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

zappa, I don't see any of those as being per se racist...

The LA PD ignored the black areas of LA, and these areas were free to succumb to mob rule. Yes, the rioters were mostly black.

If he really said some of the things in the original post, he's an asshole, but I don't care. I'll still vote for him not cuz I want to have children w/ him, but because I think a vote for him endorses a policy that needs to have a greater influence in washington.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7848565 - 01/08/08 03:34 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

OneLessForeskin said:
Blah blah blah...if Ron Paul disagrees with all these statements, why were they printed in his OFFICIAL NEWSLETTER, NUMEROUS TIMES? Ron Paul telling me he doesn't think these things doesn't go far at all.




judging from your response, you are stubborn and being at least temporarily close-minded. No one can convince you.


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: The New Republic on Ron Paul...ouch! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7848578 - 01/08/08 03:37 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Once again, not being "politically correct" and not ignoring stats and facts about criminals and the black population, does not equate racism.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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