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BUDDHA_702
Master Mycologist In Training



Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
Loc: Some Country
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What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms
#7846834 - 01/08/08 04:14 AM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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Just curious, & what kind of charges are we talking about???
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: BUDDHA_702]
#7846946 - 01/08/08 06:28 AM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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in the us, such evidence that its more likely than not that you are guiilty of an offense.
very little is needed
as to what charges... manufacture, intent to distribute, drug paraphanalia, et cet
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JT



Registered: 02/28/07
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: johnm214]
#7847920 - 01/08/08 01:20 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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luckily most cops don't know what shroom grows look like, so even if one does get in your house, they might not notice.
if you're caught, you're lookin' at about 10 years where i live.
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tak
geo's henchman




Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 3,776
Loc: nowhereland
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: JT]
#7847974 - 01/08/08 01:33 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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it can work the other way too. ignorance on their part is not always bliss on yours. I would hate to have a 100% secure meth lab in my basement, while brewing up some kind of legal herb when a cop comes to the door & them not knowing wtf they are doing just wanting to arrest someone. we may have a system and laws designed to pretect you, but in the end you are fucked, always.
-------------------- The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.
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BUDDHA_702
Master Mycologist In Training



Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
Loc: Some Country
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: tak]
#7848643 - 01/08/08 03:47 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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I've had A cop in my room only seconds after throwing all my casings away and put all my growing equipment in the fc and putting on a solid lid. He looked right at and didn't say a word.
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No Agenda
Stranger

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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: BUDDHA_702]
#7877728 - 01/14/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
luckily most cops don't know what shroom grows look like, so even if one does get in your house, they might not notice.
I'm not so sure about that. The cops did a knock and talk at my house once because of a "stray dog" in the neighborhood (a technique that they arrested a lot of my friends with that year). While talking to me they noticed a contaminated jar that I was about to clean out. They immediatley came in and arrested me taking the jar as evedince. I spent the weekend in jail and bonded out. Luckily they only took that jar and did not search the rest of my house because upstairs i had at least two dozen jars invtro pinning. Ny the time the jar they took made it to the lab the mold had taken over and there was no trace of any mycelium. Lucky me. The charges were dropped and i still had my first crop. By the way they were not there because of the shrooms they thought there was a meth lab there which still puzzles me to this day.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: No Agenda]
#7878708 - 01/14/08 03:04 PM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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You violated several rules and happened to luck out.
Never talk to the police. Always ask who it is before you open the door. If they say they're the cops just tell them to go away. "Get the fuck out of here," will suffice.
Instead you put yourself in a situation where you would have been charged with a felony if the cops hadn't been so inept.
Only fools are busted by knock-and-talks, so I hope you learned your lesson and have ditched your friends.
It's even one of the 10 crack commandments... "If you ain't gettin' bagged stay the fuck from police."
-FF
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: fastfred]
#7878841 - 01/14/08 03:39 PM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Never talk to the police. Always ask who it is before you open the door. If they say they're the cops just tell them to go away. "Get the fuck out of here," will suffice.
exactly
Don't talk to the police. Be rude, whatever. People never seem to get it. No this doesn't just apply to "formal" discussion where they have you in an interview room, this applies to every situation imaginable. Unless you are reporting a crime (and even then I'd be hesitiant) don't speak w/ the police.
When the police are at your door, ignore them. Curiosity won't kill you, but the police might throw you in jail. I guarentee they aren't there to give you a prize.
If they know your in there and demand you come out simply ask what they want. If the answer isn't something to do w/ your under arrest or they have some sort of warrant, ignore them. At most you may be required to open the door and give them some identification, though I'm not even sure if you could be compelled to do this. But when you leave your residence, close the door behind you.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: johnm214]
#7878896 - 01/14/08 03:51 PM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: I guarantee they aren't there to give you a prize.
If they know your in there and demand you come out simply ask what they want. If the answer isn't something to do w/ your under arrest or they have some sort of warrant, ignore them.
I suggest shortening it even more. The more you talk the worse off you will be in every situation. Ask who it is, if they say police, ask if they have a warrant, if they say no I would just say "Then get the fuck out of here then."
Cops are used to people being rude to them. That's because they are assholes and rude to people all day long. Self-respecting citizens have no time for their bullshit and will frequently tell them to fuck off.
There are plenty of people out there that hate cops, and with good reasons. Once you establish that you hate cops no further explanation is necessary. They won't even find things suspicious. They won't think that you won't open the door because you're hiding something. They'll think you won't open because you hate cops.
If you do get stuck explaining your attitude you can always say that a cop raped your sister or something of that sort.
My favorite line is "Police? We didn't order no po-lice!" Then just tell them "Fuck off piggies, we got no donuts in here."
This is unbelievably satisfying once you get over your fear of authority figures and work up the balls to say it. Without a warrant they simply have to turn around and walk away.
-FF
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: fastfred]
#7879367 - 01/14/08 05:23 PM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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yeah, well you also have to watch out for them inventing charges, which is the other problem- why I'm generally curt but not outright rude
but then again if the door is closed its hard for them to make up things....
and I don't share your optimism on how many people don't play into the cops games of "we're just doing our job- we're here to help you, et cet"Quote:
Quote:
I know plenty of people who don't like the police, and most of them are too chickenshit to refuse searches or stand up for themsleves.
Then there's me, who doesn't ever carry anything illegal on my person, and I'm the one who always refuses the search...
check out this bullshit, suposedly from NPR
Quote:
"When an American exercises his constitutional right to refuse consent to search of a vehicle, that is a huge reasonable suspicion to a cop," says Cooper. "A hundred percent of the time when somebody refused consent, I always found something they didn't want me to see." If the police want inside your car, they will get inside your car, even if that means hanging out on the side of the road until a warrant or a dog arrives. Give consent, and they probably won't look very hard. After all, you've got nothing to hide.
I have encountered that shit too, where they always think you've got something... bullshit. And this guy's just lying, I refuse to belive that nobody else is like me and refuses searches.
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No Agenda
Stranger

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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: johnm214]
#7879496 - 01/14/08 05:51 PM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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I know i was lucky, very lucky. I like the idea of refusing searches if you got the time. I once told the cops they couldn't search my vehicle, when they asked why i told them that i didn't trust cops because they were all corupt. they ended up calling the k-9 out pulled my sick girlfriend out of the vehicle without her coat made us stand on the side of the road for 2 hours.When the dog got there they tapped on my door, it jumped up, and they said it had triggered even though I had been absolutely clean for at least six months. they ended up rippin my car to shreds and found nothing. It ruined my date and the girl never talked to me again.
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PoisonedV
Fuming Shrooming




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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: No Agenda]
#7880840 - 01/14/08 10:40 PM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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I grow my shrooms, active and non in a cooler, I think I might somehow make a layer to put over it to look like its full of ice and coke
-------------------- Lazy...
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rodfarva
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=====-----=-=-=-=-I



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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: johnm214]
#7890283 - 01/16/08 08:50 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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I have been asked twice if they can search and both times i agreed knowing i wasnt carrying. I know i didnt have to, but i thought in both cases i would get out of the ticket and a lenghthy wait for the k9's. Both times i was pulled over on "suspisious behaivior" you know the kind: turning left, or pulling out onto a main road. Just your normal suspisious things.
Any way once the first time he seached my CLEAN car for over 90 minutes while i waited in the cold ( about 25 deg f ) I didnt get a ticket.
The second time the fat ass serched for about 30 minutes and gave me a ticket, then made me and my girl go back to her house to see her ID.
Im done consenting, if they ask you to consent they have ALREADY decided they want to give you a hard time THEY DONT FUCKING BLUFF. If they ask you and you say ok, they will search.
If you are moving dr00gs the best advice is to do it in a rain storm. the piggies dont like getting wet.
--------------------
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: rodfarva]
#7890311 - 01/16/08 08:56 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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i've been given two warnings when i refused a search, so they don't always give you a ticket. More relevant is if your nice to the cops or not. If/When the cops cop an attitude, just stay firm.
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maglight
Stranger

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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: johnm214]
#7895822 - 01/18/08 01:18 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
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Somebody down the hall in my dorm was smoking pot and blowing it in their shower vent, which conveniently carries the smell right in front of my door. I had been asleep in my recliner when I was woken up by 3 cops knocking at my door. While standing in the doorway, I told them I would permit them to enter my room only under the condition that they stand in the open and smell that it doesnt smell like pot in my room (in hindsight I should not have let them in in the first place). They came in, agreed it did not smell like pot, or even any sort of air freshener. After that, then they asked to search my room, which really pissed me off because they had proof that I wasn't smoking, and that they were just turning this into a random drug check. I said no, and right away they began accusing me of having something to hide. When asked why I refused, I just stated that I'd rather not have people going through my belongings (I had 5 cakes fruiting in my closet at the moment). While the cop was standing there, I opened my fridge to grab a soda (being quite thirsty having just woken up from a nap), and as I was grabbing it I saw 5 cakes dunked in a gladware container that I had forgotten about. Thank god the cop didnt notice it. After that, and a few more accusations of having something to hide, they went out into the hall, I heard them mumbling angrily about "so there isn't anything we can do?" and they finally left. Of course, they head right for the elevator rather than searching for who actually was smoking. But the whole time, everything was yes sir no sir, never raised my voice or acted rude toward them.
Being respectful to the cops definately is a good idea. When you tell a cop to fuck himself, if he's having a bad day that could very well put him on a mission to fuck you over, and try to get a warrant. Even if you're absolutely sure they can't do anything, being respectful can't hurt.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: maglight]
#7896071 - 01/18/08 05:02 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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> Being respectful to the cops definately is a good idea.
I've said it many times... when the cops show up, the game is lost and all that is left is damage control. I've found, unfortunately through experience, that polite, respectful, yet firm is the best way to behave.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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rodfarva
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Seuss]
#7896999 - 01/18/08 11:02 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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So i got fucking pulled over again sence my last post. The cop was tailgaiting me in an unmarked car and i rolled through a stopsign. He was definatly fucking with me and forced me into doing somthing. He was about 1 foot from my bumper. I should have slammed on the breaks.
Any way he walked up and before saying anything tried to open my back door! What a fucker. Just walks up and starts trying to search. Then i get have you been drinking. i had so i told the truth about the one beer i had and got this fairy tail from him about how there is zero toerance for D&D so i replied " no acctually there is a tolerance of .08 BAC" and i asked him why he was trying to scare me. He went back to the car and came back with my ticket, insinuating that he would bust me on the warent for not paying it. I guess i look broke. Funny thing is i know for a fact i make between 30,000 $ and 40,000 $ more than any cop in this city that rides in a car harassing people at 1:30 am. Eat a dick!
--------------------
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rizingfire
Mycoticus psychoticus




Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 875
Loc: North-east USm'f'nA
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: rodfarva]
#7897047 - 01/18/08 11:22 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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I am always respectful to the cops cuz I learned my lesson after getting my truck ripped apart for nothing (being mouthy with a 8 page record) I like NH, the fuzz leave me alone. One Det that arrested me for heroin posession a few years back actually felt bad for me and after seeing me trying to get clean he asked that I get a suspended sentence instead. MA the DA's bring the Charges, in NH the DA is a PD Sgt. Anyway they know I smoke tons of bud and they still asked me to speak at the school to the kids about staying away from coke and heroin. I even told the kids to smoke pot instead and no one cared. They actually took my advice and told the kids they don't care about weed but will not tollerate hard stuff. Some kid had just gotten arrested blowing lines off his desk the week before...
It worked out good cuz I may get my right to own a firearm back, he is talking to the cheif cus it is at his discretion due to my record, but since there is no guns or violence they may actually give it back. NH has a cool law that you can pay to have you record erased if you stay out of trouble for a couple years. I am not sure if it is $150 to file or per charge though...if it is per charge I am looking at a $12k bill to clean it.
Shrooms aren't big around here. I think the best story of getting let go for being nice was when I got caught with a box of used needles and a whole bunch of empty H bags. They actually gave me the box back and told me to throw it out when I got home. Clean needles aren't illegal here but they could have been dicks for the residue. I got nailed a week later for a bundle I never knew was in my car. I had been sick for a couple days and it was there the whole time but I never knew cuz it was my dads. So anyway it looked like I was lying but that is why the Det felt bad cuz he knew I wouldn't have been dopesick if it was mine.
All the above advice is excellent. Cops are sneaky and should never be taken for granted that they are cool because they can fuck u when you least expect it. I keep em just close enough that I get a heads up if anything is coming my way...but since I cut out all the illegal shit and get scripts now, the shrooms and bud are the only lawbreaking I have done in a while.
-------------------- aka NHMI
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rizingfire
Mycoticus psychoticus




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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: rizingfire]
#7897068 - 01/18/08 11:31 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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It is also another good reason why everyone needs a Prepaid legal Membership. If you get the Legal shield for an extra buck you get 24hr access to a lawyer so if you have the cops come you can call your attorney before ever even opening the door. The attorney will often ask you to hand the phone to the fuzz and then he will lay on the civil rights stuff, etc... Works good for traffic issues where they want to search, even fighting speeding tickets, however you can't be trashed at the stop or it isn't covered.Most stuff is no additional charge. It is an excellent service. Click on my signature and check out the benefits. No one should be without this! Plus it covers you nationwide and Canada unlike paid lawyers confined to a state or two. I had my lawyer write a letter to my old landlord for jewing me out of $100 for a supposed cleaning that wasn't neccessary. I wouldn't have been able to afford...well it would have cost more for a lawyer so it wouldn't be worth it but now I just pay $25/month and I know I am safe. These Firms are the best of the best too, no public pretenders (for the ammount they get every month they better be. I already used my firm so I know they are good. Out west some of the people are lucky enough to have 1 of 4 retired US Attorney Generals as their provider, they are like $1k/hr....just to illustrate the quality of counsel that you get for less tha a buck a day.
www.YouCanDoMore.net tells the plans and the benefits and www.iCanDoMore.net covers the product along with the business opportunity for those who want a chunk of the growing ID theft protection market. I am psyched cuz I spent 5yrs in jail and probably wouldn't have had I had this service at the time. I wish I had it when my GPS broke and circuit city wouldn't take it back and the manufacturer wouldn't honor the warranty, but at least I know it will never happen again.
-------------------- aka NHMI
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Seuss]
#7898233 - 01/18/08 04:56 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Being respectful to the cops definitely is a good idea.
I've said it many times... when the cops show up, the game is lost and all that is left is damage control. I've found, unfortunately through experience, that polite, respectful, yet firm is the best way to behave.
YMMV and everyone has their own style. I've even seen people recommend that you piss off the cops until they blow their cool and fuck up their case against you because of it.
Anyhow, it's always good to be nice to the cops until they start being assholes to you, such as asking to search more than once.
When a cop is being an asshole and you remain polite it shows weakness and a willingness to be fucked over. This is the shit that gives asshole cops a huge erection. Don't do this. Treat asshole cops like you would any other asshole that you come across.
You can also be disrespectful by acting overly polite in a sarcastic way. You should always treat people with the respect that they deserve. To do otherwise is to appear weak, stupid, or ignorant of your rights. Cops can and will take advantage of you in these situations.
-FF
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Zinglons Acolyte
Wizard Ninja



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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: fastfred]
#7906821 - 01/20/08 06:37 PM (16 years, 12 days ago) |
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that is, id the piggie is smart enough to understand sarcasm
-------------------- And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast. ----- "And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" "If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: BUDDHA_702]
#7930409 - 01/25/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Folks, absolutist attitudes are usually counterproductive. Let's take a specific scenario where you WANT to let the cop search. I'm no lawyer, but I've talked to many lawyers and the scenario I'm about to give you is legally valid.
Say you've got a baggy of weed in your pocket and you've been smoking off and on during the day, but your car is clean and you're sure of it. Now, a cop stops you and asks you to step out of the car.
The cop can legally do a pat down to make sure you don't have a weapon. This is looking for a gun or a knife and is not a thorough search of your body. You usually won't be asked to turn out your pockets. A baggy in the pocket (or better yet, your crotch) will not draw attention any more than a wallet or a small wad of bills.
Next the suspicious cop asks to search your car. Remember that you're certain your car is clean at this point. The goods are on you.
What happens if you refuse? Well, the almost-guaranteed response is intense suspicion. Unless the sky is falling, the cop will call for a dog and detain you as long as it takes for it to get there.
A dog's nose is a zillion times more sensitive than a human's. The instant the dog arrives he will indicate on the door handle which you've been touching after handling weed. Now you're fucked, because once the dog indicates, both your body and your car will be THOROUGHLY searched and they will find the goods on you.
If instead of refusing the search, you politely let the cop search your car, knowing that the weed is in your pocket, he will find nothing and likely let you go.
If you're carrying, it's CRITICAL that the cop not become suspicious enough to call for a dog. That call ends the game for you.
Swallow your pride when it makes sense to and take the path of least resistance. Do everything possible to avoid the dog. Like Seuss said, once the cops arrive, your goal is minimizing the damage. You do that by cooperating with the cop as politely and as much as possible without revealing the stash, and by manipulating the situation so the cop doesn't feel the need to call for a dog. And most of all, keep your mouth shut except to answer questions. Don't over-answer. Give just enough answer to satisfy the cop, then shut up. The more you talk, the more likely you'll say something to draw suspicion.
Be smart, not stubborn!
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Diploid]
#7930722 - 01/25/08 04:27 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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> What happens if you refuse? Well, the almost-guaranteed response is intense suspicion.
Not really. If you act suspicious they will become suspicious. Refusing a search is not suspicious in and of itself and is not cause for "articulable suspicion".
> Unless the sky is falling, the cop will call for a dog and detain you as long as it takes for it to get there.
Often not. They will often just send you on your way knowing there is nothing they can do. If they make you wait for a dog they've just punished you for asserting your rights and their case is shot.
There's ways around that, like taking overly long to write you a ticket. If there is no ticketable offense and/or they aren't going to write you one then they absolutely have no justification to hold you for any length of time. You should find this out right off the bat rather than engaging the cops verbally and/or playing into their game.
> If you're carrying, it's CRITICAL that the cop not become suspicious enough to call for a dog. That call ends the game for you.
Or it makes your case and you get off scott free on the 10 pounds of heroin in your trunk. It's happened before, people can and are let off on major drug charges because they smartly refused to let the police search and were unduly delayed for it.
Time and time again we read in the news section where people with large amounts of drugs consent to searches and are then busted. The other major causes are major violations that result in arrest or impounding of the car. Rarely do you ever see a case where someone refused to consent to a search and ended up being busted by the dog that came.
While I generally agree with the specific circumstance you mentioned it can easily play out different ways. When you consent to a search that takes time and occupies the officer, so they often call for backup. Lots of times other cops hear the stop on their radio and stop by to check it out. They always radio when they're going to do a search and cops also like to stop by to see if anything is found. If that backup happens to have a K9 unit then you're fucked. OTOH if you had refused you might well have already been on your way. If you do get busted after a refusal you have a reasonable chance in court. If you consented then you have no chance whatsoever since you waived your rights.
Some cops like to put you in their car when they search and they almost always will search you before doing that. That's another chance to get busted that you could have avoided.
It's all to easy to second guess yourself and things can play out either way no matter what you do, but I always advise to refuse searches unless it is clearly a benefit to you.
-FF
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms *DELETED* [Re: fastfred]
#7930770 - 01/25/08 04:37 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: delete
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: fastfred]
#7930824 - 01/25/08 04:45 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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But what's the point of refusing a search when you KNOW there's nothing in the car? What does it gain you other than increasing the risk that the cop will make things personal?
If you KNOW your car is clean and the cop wants to search, let him. It's the fastest way to pacify the bully and get him off your back.
You don't want a pissed off cop to deal with, whether you're breaking the law or not. Your pride is not worth risking going to jail for.
It's happened before, people can and are let off on major drug charges because they smartly refused to let the police search and were unduly delayed for it.
You're not reading me. I'm talking about the case where there is nothing to find in the car. If you have 10# of heroin in the trunk, then of course you refuse the search and take your chances. If you have nothing in the car, the fastest way to get the guy off your back is to let him search and find nothing.
Not really. If you act suspicious they will become suspicious.
Not according to Barry Cooper. According to him, cops tick off in their head something called "probable suspicion". Each time he notices something, he ticks off one more count. The more cause for "probable suspicion" you give him, the longer he will detain you and the more likely he will call for a dog.
Refusing a search immediately ticks off your first point of "probable suspicion". If you're nervous, there's another one. If your story and your passenger's story don't jive, there's another one.
By refusing a search when you are certain there is nothing to find in the car, you only increase the chances a dog will be called who will not miss the weed in your pocket even though the cop missed it during the pat down.
Some cops like to put you in their car when they search and they almost always will search you before doing that.
Again, not according to the horse's mouth. Cooper knows what he's talking about. He's not making this up. According to him, at this point in the game, all the cop is allowed to do is a quick pat down to make sure you don't have an obvious weapon. If your weed is stashed in your crotch inside your underwear, it won't be found (unless the dog comes).
Don't take my word for any of this. Watch his video. Better yet, talk to a criminal defense lawyer. What do I know.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Chemy]
#7931269 - 01/25/08 06:08 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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FF summed that up well, but I thought I would add that a police officer can not detain or arrest without probable cause.
This is not true. You guys are just making stuff up.
Probable suspicion (also known as Reasonable Suspicion) is enough for a cop to detain you, and refusing a search IS probable suspicion. Multiple probable suspicions is enough for a cop to detain you for a long time, long enough for probable cause to form if you slip up or if a dog indicates on your body or your property/car. At that point, they have probable cause and can and will legally search.
The Supreme Court affirmed this in 1968 in Terry v. Ohio.
Learn the law so you don't give probable suspicion. Don't make the mistake of thinking you know what you're talking about then having your lawyer explain it to you in a jail cell.
There ARE instances where consenting to a search of your car is the best thing to do.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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fastfred
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Diploid]
#7931785 - 01/25/08 07:52 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: But what's the point of refusing a search when you KNOW there's nothing in the car?
Perhaps you enjoy the freedoms assured you under the constitution. Perhaps you don't like being abused by the gov.. Perhaps you don't want to be delayed for 30-60 minutes for a search when you could be on your way instead. Perhaps you don't like strangers pawing through your personal belongings.
Quote:
What does it gain you other than increasing the risk that the cop will make things personal?
If you cannot answer that question then perhaps you would not mind living in a police state where you are searched and questioned at every opportunity and every checkpoint along your route.
Quote:
You don't want a pissed off cop to deal with, whether you're breaking the law or not.
I love nothing more than seeing a pissed off and impotent cop frustrated by the common man by simple assertion of his constitutional rights.
Quote:
Your pride is not worth risking going to jail for.
I believe that some would disagree with you here. You might examine the history of social protest, human rights protest, and workers rights protests for more insight into that.
Quote:
If you have nothing in the car, the fastest way to get the guy off your back is to let him search and find nothing.
This is a most common misconception IMO. IME consenting to a search is sure to delay you for a significant time, while refusing often ends up getting you right on your way.
Quote:
Not according to Barry Cooper. According to him, cops tick off in their head something called "probable suspicion".
I'm not familiar with that term. The case law I've seen deals with "articulable suspicion". I'm not sure that "probable suspicion" has any legal meaning whatsoever. It seems redundant and nonsensical. There is suspicion, articulable suspicion, and probable cause.
I've seen his video and one thing I would point out is that Barry Cooper was a narcotics agent. He is only pulling people over for drugs and always had drug dogs immediately at his disposal. When he pulls someone over he already has profiled them and has a high suspicion that they have drugs on them right off the bat.
This is a far cry from being pulled over on a common traffic stop by a standard patrol officer. If you follow Barry's advice you will likely never be pulled over by a narcotics interdiction officer. What most people have to worry about, if they're smart, is common traffic stops.
Barry's advice is that you follow his video and have your drugs well hidden. You arouse no suspicion in any way and have your drugs in an unfindable place. Your only goal is to avoid the dog.
Quote:
Refusing a search immediately ticks off your first point of "probable suspicion". If you're nervous, there's another one. If your story and your passenger's story don't jive, there's another one.
Again "probable suspicion" really makes no sense, it's simply "suspicion". To bear any weight legally it has to be "articulable suspicion". That means that you have to have a reason for your suspicion, "he looked nervous" doesn't cut it.
Your first point is simply assertion of your rights and any reference to it in court works against the prosecution. The second point is not "articulable" and carries no weight. The third point is valid and this is "articulable suspicion". It's not probable cause and is only good for holding you a short time and questioning you further.
Quote:
By refusing a search when you are certain there is nothing to find in the car, you only increase the chances a dog will be called who will not miss the weed in your pocket even though the cop missed it during the pat down.
As I discussed earlier this isn't always the case. Every situation is different and consenting to a search is certain to delay you for a period of time and increase the chance that a K9 will show up.
If you refuse it is a two-pronged approach and serves to either get you on your way or destroy any case against you.
Quote:
Probable suspicion (also known as Reasonable Suspicion) is enough for a cop to detain you, and refusing a search IS probable suspicion.
I've never head this and don't believe it to be true. Without probable cause cops may detain you for questioning. If you refuse to answer any questions (which is your right) then they have no reasonable cause to detain you. If you ask for a lawyer they also must stop questioning you, giving them no cause to further detain you.
In most cases if you assert your right to remain silent then they can only detain you for purposes of identification. Once they see your license and make the identification that reason no longer holds.
Quote:
There ARE instances where consenting to a search of your car is the best thing to do.
This is true, however they are few and far between. You give up a lot of rights when you consent, and you're basically shooting your lawyer in the foot when you do this.
-FF
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms *DELETED* [Re: fastfred]
#7931884 - 01/25/08 08:10 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: too much
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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Chemy
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms *DELETED* [Re: Chemy]
#7931917 - 01/25/08 08:20 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: N/A
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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Diploid
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: fastfred]
#7931950 - 01/25/08 08:27 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Perhaps you enjoy the freedoms assured you under the constitution. Perhaps you don't like being abused by the gov..
Raaaiiggghtt. So you do exactly what will get your freedoms removed by the government.
Alright.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Chemy]
#7931978 - 01/25/08 08:30 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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reasonable suspicion? where did that come from, law and order or CSI miami?
Uh, the Supreme Court, Terry v. Ohio:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio
You're not reading what I've been so carefully typing. So after this post, I'll leave you to your expert knowledge since you (don't) know so much more about it than I do. 
You can not be detained
Uh... thanks for setting the Supreme Court straight on this. I'm sure they're grateful:
Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard in United States law that a person has been, is, or is about to be, engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences. It is the basis for an investigatory or Terry stop by the police and requires less evidence than probable cause, the legal requirement for arrests and warrants. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be, engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch. Police may also, based solely on reasonable suspicion of a threat to safety, frisk a suspect for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. A combination of particular facts, even if individually innocuous, can form the basis of reasonable suspicion.
Supreme Court ruled that a person can be stopped and frisked by a police officer based on a reasonable suspicion. Such a detention does not violate the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
#7932012 - 01/25/08 08:36 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: N/A
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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Zinglons Acolyte
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Chemy]
#7932087 - 01/25/08 08:50 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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so, could a good legal defense be like, set up a recording device with a high sensitivity mic in ur car and start recording as soon as u see the cop? out of sight of course
-------------------- And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast. ----- "And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" "If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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Chemy
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms *DELETED* [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
#7932126 - 01/25/08 08:56 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: If you are sure you want to do this, click the button below. Yes, I want to delete this post.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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Zinglons Acolyte
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Chemy]
#7932148 - 01/25/08 09:00 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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you could wire it so that the record switch is next to the peddles, so the cop wont thing your fishing for something or trying to hide something
video would be a bit more difficult to keep discreet unless u get those micro cameras that are about the size of a quarter, you dont want it to be obvious or the piggie will get pissed off that youre taking hard evidence against him and "accidently" smash up ur equipment
-------------------- And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast. ----- "And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" "If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
#7952208 - 01/29/08 07:35 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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diploid, I believe what was being said was that in the context of a traffic stop a terry stop has less meaning. Once they frisk you, and you refuse to answer questions, they can't detain you absent probable cause.
The terry standards set a threshold for when the cop may approach you and frisk you or your immediate surroundings absent probable cause, however; they do not give rise to a detention of more than several minutes if you identify yourself and refuse to answer questions.
course they could call a dog, and likely get away with it, but they really aren't supposed to be doing this if it would prolong the stop, however what is a reasonable time will vary and likely favor the cops.
the other issue is that once your pulled over for a traffic violation, most of which are criminal offenses (minor misdemeanors, petty offenses whatever) the cops can arrest you under the fed. const. At least one state (Ohio) has ruled that the state constitution prohibits this, but don't know about the other states.
but yeah, I would say never consent to a search. It may well be that the cop won't do as thorough a search if you consent than after a dog alerts, but who knows- as I've not had shit on me in a car in a long time, its more academic for me, and I simply don't consent out of protest for the coercion of my rights and the misuse of the gov't power to target drugs.
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Diploid
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: johnm214]
#7952917 - 01/29/08 09:12 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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What you're missing is that considerable discretion is given the cop in those (terry stop) situations. A terry stop can happen to you without any reason other than the cop thinks you "look nervous". He can stop you walking on the sidewalk and ask you for ID for no reason at all other than you "look suspicious". Each of those, whether made up by the cop or actually observed tick off a point of Probable Suspicion.
Cops DO lie, and they DO take their job personally. And they're out hunting, it's what satisfies them psychologically. They're selected for that. Turn that to your advantage.
My whole point, and one that you guys are totally missing, is that there ARE occasions where the end result depends on how you behave toward the cop, and when your car is totally clean and you're certain of it but you have something illegal in your pocket, the FASTEST way to get away from him is to let him search the clean car.
During a terry stop, the cop is allowed to do a pat down for gross metal objects that could be weapons, but he is not allowed to do a thorough search of your person. If your car is clean but there's a quarter of weed in your pocket, you have to keep this from escalating (through the cop lying and saying something like he smelled weed on your breath) into a probable cause situation where HE WILL turn out all your pockets and find the weed.
What you want to do in that situation is to manipulate him toward the car and away from you and also away from calling a dog, which he will do if you piss him off and refuse the search, or he will lie and turn the terry stop into a probable cause situation. COPS DO LIE. Be aware of that so you don't give him a reason to lie and make things worse for you.
By letting him search the CLEAN car, it will satisfy the alpha-bully in him in that he will think he intimidated you into a search when in fact you manipulated HIM into the search so he'll get the stop over with and go bug someone else.
Don't believe me. Refuse a search for no reason other than your pride next time you're confronted. Report back here how it went down. I'd be interested to hear the result though some cop abuse is what I expect to read.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
#7953030 - 01/29/08 09:28 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: If you are sure you want to do this, click the button below. Yes, I want to delete this post.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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Diploid
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Chemy]
#7953036 - 01/29/08 09:29 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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It's cool man. Just keep in mind that cops are liars. I've seen it first-hand. We live in a police state.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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johnm214



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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: Chemy]
#7953547 - 01/29/08 10:45 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Don't believe me. Refuse a search for no reason other than your pride next time you're confronted. Report back here how it went down. I'd be interested to hear the result though some cop abuse is what I expect to read.
I have refused searches every time I'm asked for no other reason than my pride, dislike of the police and their intrusivness. Four times that I remember off the top of my head, and I'm a clean cut kid w/ no convictions, but in a college town.
Got a ticket twice for speeding, beat one of those in court and the other I paid, and got a warning for weaving the other two times. Out of those the dog alerted once, which was either a false hit or the cops lied.
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Diploid
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Re: What does a cop have to see to get a warrant for shrooms [Re: johnm214]
#7953862 - 01/29/08 11:35 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Out of those the dog alerted once, which was either a false hit or the cops lied.
Yep, watch the Barry Cooper video if you haven't already. He's an expert police dog handler and demonstrates how he can make the dog false-indicate at will.
Cops DO lie.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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