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InvisibleChiefGreenLeaf

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,596
Not paying taxes
    #7844097 - 01/07/08 03:29 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

I know there are people who do it. I know there are quirks in the legal work of the IRS, but I mean how do you even begin to do that? What do they claim that gives them protection? I am hoping that the Fair Tax goes into effect, putting an end to the IRS. Them and the DEA have to be like the biggest assholes ever.


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
    #7844117 - 01/07/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

i dont pay taxes :P

at least not state income tax

texas ftw!

plus i'm a state employee..


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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
    #7845477 - 01/07/08 08:22 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

They do it by risking fines, prosecution, property seizure & imprisonment.  :shrug:

Many people work "off the books," doing odd jobs or day labor, in order to avoid paying taxes (or child support, or their debts).  If you work for an employer who reports their wages to the IRS, then you WILL eventually have to deal with IRS agents.  If you are self-employed, and your clients report the amounts they have paid you to the IRS, then you WILL hear from the IRS.

IMO, it's just not worth the risks.  I know a family who lost their 3000 sf house, motor home, cars, boat, bank accounts, etc... because they decided not to pay taxes on their substantial self-employment income.


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Offlinefreddurgan
Techgnostic
Male


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 3,648
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: Veritas]
    #7845955 - 01/07/08 09:41 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

What about the bit at the end of Zeitgeist where the IRS agents are saying that they no longer fill out income tax forms because there is technically "no law" saying that you have to.

What was the deal with that?


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: freddurgan]
    #7845983 - 01/07/08 09:46 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

I'd take that whole movie with a huge grain of salt.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: freddurgan]
    #7847865 - 01/08/08 01:08 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

There are no laws you are correct. But....... there are tax codes you can violate and that's how they get cha.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: Icelander]
    #7848359 - 01/08/08 02:48 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
There are no laws you are correct. But....... there are tax codes you can violate and that's how they get cha.




source?

and what do you say about 26 USC sec 1?
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000001----000-.html


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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: freddurgan]
    #7848846 - 01/08/08 04:26 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

That is pure B.S.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/income_tax.html

Federal income taxation is part of federal law (U.S. Code). Those who avoid paying, or intentionally underpay, are in violation of federal law.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: johnm214]
    #7849514 - 01/08/08 06:10 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
There are no laws you are correct. But....... there are tax codes you can violate and that's how they get cha.




source?



and what do you say about 26 USC sec 1?
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000001----000-.html




Urban legends.:( I think I'm wrong here:blush:.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleJaComet
Old Hand

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Out Yonder
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: Icelander]
    #7857908 - 01/10/08 07:11 AM (16 years, 22 days ago)

Oh Lordy. Should I really get into this.

(HELL YEAH)

Whether or not your cash flow is subject to the convoluted definitions of “Wages“, “Income” and “Source Derived” depends on the nature of that cash flow. The short of it is remuneration for your labor is an in kind exchange. A no gain transaction. Interest from bank accounts, stocks, capital gains and other generally “Unearned Income” is.

OK. At last report there were between 65 and 90million non-filers in the US, not counting Illegal Aliens. Joining us is an adventure and a REAL challenge. At least for the first couple of go rounds. It’s a pain to have your wages garnished or bank accounts and property liened.

Actually there is only a “Notice of Lien/Levy” filed, if that. No real Lien exists. It’s all a paperwork con game. Getting a Notice rescinded can be done, but also done is your reputation. Most people around you are scared shitless and will not defend you.

Bank accounts / wages that are seized can be recovered. Problem is you have to be up to speed on the ins and outs of claiming Mail / Wire Fraud against both the IRS and your bank / employer, to do so. You are most likely to end up out of your job when all is said and done.

This is the voice of Experience and Observation speaking!!

I DO NOT SUGGEST YOU DO THIS UNLESS YOU’VE GOT REAL FIRE IN YOUR BELLY.

Then there are filers who get their withholding money back, Social Security as well. Self employed who are reported by clients and only go through a few letter exchanges to keep IRS thugs out of their pockets and business.

Best resource available, bar none, is from Peter E. Hendrickson’s work, Cracking The Code. Best PERIOD. I suggest you not even bother taking other people very seriously.

http://www.losthorizons.com/Cracking_the_Code.htm

Don’t buy the book . Spend some time reviewing his extensive information. Hit the Subject page

http://www.losthorizons.com/IncomeTaxSiteMap.htm

Look at various refund checks issued from State and Fed agencies.

http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/MoreVictories.htm

Check the Bulletin Board for more, better and different.

http://www.losthorizons.com/BulletinBoard.htm

Hit the Forum index page and read it!

http://www.losthorizons.com/Forum/index.html

Then visit the Forum.

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=ecc68937c252dc03a4ef3437dcd622de

Everything on this site is open and transparent.

Enough for now.


--------------------


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OfflineCoonHeadJoe
Stranger
Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 10
Last seen: 16 years, 1 day
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: JaComet]
    #7875893 - 01/13/08 09:32 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

from what I understand all of this centers around CTC. what is CTC? and how do I get every cent back that the gov/irs has ben with-holding?(correct me if im wrong)

thanks.


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InvisibleHelltick
Player
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: CoonHeadJoe]
    #7879503 - 01/14/08 05:54 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

They do it by risking fines, prosecution, property seizure & imprisonment.




I don't even live in your country (Glad I don't btw)...It's people like you who live in fear of their own government that are feeding the machine.

You guys need to stand up together as a union and ask your govt where all your money is going.

Let me rephrase that...Where all your money has gone!..and revolt!
Don't accept the chip and don't get the 2008 drivers license.

Source:




--------------------
  My Agar Tek. 
  My Greenhouse Tek. 

"It's not good when it's done, it's done when it's good"


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InvisibleHelltick
Player
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: Helltick]
    #7879517 - 01/14/08 05:57 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Every time I post a link it just shows a picture of an "F" WTF?
Anyway if you want the link pm me.


--------------------
  My Agar Tek. 
  My Greenhouse Tek. 

"It's not good when it's done, it's done when it's good"


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: Helltick]
    #7879521 - 01/14/08 05:58 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

if it's a youtube or google video it automatically embeds it

the f is for shockwave flash i believe


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InvisibleHelltick
Player
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Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7879539 - 01/14/08 06:02 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

[url=
&q=freedom+to+fascism&total=42&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=freedom+to+fascism&total=42&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0[/url]


Edited by Helltick (01/14/08 06:31 PM)


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InvisibleHelltick
Player
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: Helltick]
    #7879550 - 01/14/08 06:04 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

:smile:


Edited by Helltick (01/14/08 06:21 PM)


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: Helltick]
    #7879685 - 01/14/08 06:31 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)



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InvisibleHelltick
Player
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Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7879721 - 01/14/08 06:35 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Thanks man!
:bongload:


--------------------
  My Agar Tek. 
  My Greenhouse Tek. 

"It's not good when it's done, it's done when it's good"


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
    #7881753 - 01/15/08 04:35 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Wesley Snipes to Go on Trial in Tax Case

By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON
Published: January 14, 2008

From 1999 to 2004, the actor Wesley Snipes earned $38 million appearing in more than half a dozen movies, including two sequels to his popular vampire thriller “Blade.”

The taxes he paid in the same period? Zero.

But unlike other celebrities who find themselves on the wrong side of the Internal Revenue Service, Mr. Snipes has a flamboyant explanation: he argues that he is not actually required to pay taxes.

Mr. Snipes, who is scheduled to go on trial Monday in Ocala, Fla., has become an unlikely public face for the antitax movement, whose members maintain that Americans are not obligated to pay income taxes and that the government extracts taxes from its citizens illegally.

His trial has become the most prominent income tax prosecution since the 1989 conviction of the billionaire New York hotelier, Leona Helmsley, who went to prison for improperly billing personal expenses to her business.

Tax deniers maintain that the law only appears to require payment of taxes. All their theories have been rejected by the courts, including the one invoked by Mr. Snipes, which is known as the 861 position, after a section of the federal tax code.

Adherents say a regulation applying the 861 provision does not list wages as taxable, though it does say that “compensation for services” is taxable. The courts have uniformly rejected all such theories, and eight people have been sentenced to prison after not paying taxes based on the 861 argument.

Despite the court rulings, juries have acquitted some prominent tax resisters in recent years, and failed prosecutions have encouraged others to join. Even when the government has failed to obtain convictions, it succeeded in collecting the taxes through civil enforcement.

J. J. MacNab, a Maryland insurance analyst who tracks people who deny they owe taxes and has testified before Congress about the movement, said that an acquittal of Mr. Snipes would be a severe setback for the I.R.S.

“He will get more press and attention than any other victory by the tax deniers, and the growth in new members will be exponential,” she said.

Mr. Snipes, 45, is charged with two felonies: conspiracy to defraud the government and filing a false claim for a $7 million refund (a claim for the year 1997, before he stopped paying taxes). He is also charged with failing to file tax returns for the six years starting in 1999. Prosecutors say they intend to show that Mr. Snipes moved tens of millions of untaxed dollars offshore and gave the government three worthless checks totaling $14 million to cover some taxes.

In court papers and interviews, Mr. Snipes says that he is not guilty and that he acted on the advice of two tax professionals. They are being tried alongside him and are promoters of the 861 position and other tax theories.

One is Douglas Rosile, who was stripped of his accounting license in 1997. The other is Eddie Kahn, who has served prison time for tax crimes. Both are under federal court order to stop promoting tax evasion, including the 861 position.

The lawyer representing Mr. Snipes at trial is Robert Bernhoft of Milwaukee, who has been barred by court order since 1999 from selling a program under which he said people could legally stop paying income taxes.

Mr. Snipes, who grew up in the Bronx, is best known for tough-guy roles in movies like “Blade,” “U.S. Marshals,” and “Passenger 57,” but he also starred in films by Spike Lee (“Jungle Fever,” “Mo’ Better Blues”) and Ron Shelton (“White Men Can’t Jump”).

His involvement with the tax resistance movement may stem from his association with the Nuwaubians, a quasi-religious sect of black Americans who promote antigovernment theories and who set up a headquarters in Georgia in the early 1990s.

In 2000, Mr. Snipes sought a federal permit for a military training compound on land next to the Nuwaubian camp; the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms rejected the request.

“Snipes is already drawing whole new demographics to the movement,” Ms. MacNab added. “Tax protesters used to be white, 50 or older, blue-collar, rural and often connected to racist movements, but Snipes is young, urban and famous.”

She and others said the movement got a boost in 2005 when a jury acquitted Joseph Banister, a former criminal investigator for the I.R.S., who used his acquittal as proof that his views on the tax law were correct. One problem with that case was that even though his co-defendant, Al Thompson of Lake Shasta, Calif., was acquitted of conspiracy in a separate trial, Mr. Thompson is serving six years in prison for failing to withhold taxes from his employees and turn the money over.

Federal prosecutors also failed to convict a Louisiana lawyer, Tom Cryer, who, like Mr. Snipes, said he sincerely believed that he was not required to pay taxes. Another resister, Robert Lawrence of Peoria, Ill., had his case dropped in 2006 after arguing that tax forms violate the federal Paperwork Reduction Act — a strategy that had been falling out of favor among tax opponents but has since gained new adherents. Both men were still liable for the taxes after their cases.

Prosecutors also failed to convict a FedEx pilot, Vernice Kuglin of Memphis, who said she wrote the I.R.S. asking what law makes her liable for taxes, but got no response. She later signed papers conceding she owed more than $600,000 in taxes, and last week her goods, including her 14-year-old vehicle, were auctioned in Memphis. Ms. Kuglin said that despite the court filing, she continues to believe that she does not owe taxes.

Tax specialists and lawyers say that the Snipes case hinges on whether he can persuade jurors that he sincerely believed that he did not have to pay taxes, while prosecutors will argue that he was just trying to avoid them. The Supreme Court has ruled that people can make such an argument, but two leading defense lawyers said that Mr. Snipes might have a hard time using it as a defense.

Michael Louis Minns, a Houston lawyer who has defended and won acquittals for tax protesters, said that the three bad checks that Mr. Snipes sent the government to cover $14 million of taxes would seem to destroy a defense based on that argument.

“You can win acquittal with a good-faith defense that you sincerely believed you do not have to pay taxes,” Mr. Minns said. “But not if you make inconsistent claims.”

William Cohan, a lawyer in Rancho Santa Fe, Calif., who also represents tax opponents, said another hurdle is the refund claim form signed by Mr. Snipes. The signature statement, or jurat, was altered so that instead of saying it was signed under penalty of perjury, the word “no” was inserted before “penalty.”

“That’s just devastating because if you sincerely believe you are not required to pay taxes, why would you alter the jurat?” Mr. Cohan said.


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InvisibleJaComet
Old Hand

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Out Yonder
Re: Not paying taxes [Re: CoonHeadJoe]
    #7881887 - 01/15/08 06:40 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

CoonHeadJoe said:
from what I understand all of this centers around CTC. what is CTC? and how do I get every cent back that the gov/irs has ben with-holding?(correct me if im wrong)

thanks.




Sorry CHJ,

I Don't recognize “CTC” right off. Maybe it will come to me. I haven’t had to deal with tax punks in a long time, so I’m somewhat out of the jargon loop.

The game rules say you can only get back the last three years worth of “taxes withheld in error”. Everything earlier is kissed good bye.

Don’t jump into this without reviewing and understanding the material presented at the site linked above. It’s not all that complicated but you need to know the background in your sleep.

There has been so much bad info proffered over the years it is easy to take a stand that has been shot down time and time again, even though the position seems reasonable. Lots of blood and tears in this effort.

Peace All.


--------------------


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