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maximyuryev
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Registered: 12/14/07
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Need some oppinons please
#7843104 - 01/07/08 11:13 AM (16 years, 25 days ago) |
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HI guys, on the 17th of december I incoulated 8 pint jars with Cambodian strain, Using PF tek. Virmiculite and Rye flour. I Presure cooked the jars at 15 psi for a bit over 1 hour. half where cooled untill they where cold to the touch. the other half where still warm. I inoculated in my bathroom which was sprayed down with lysol 3 times within a period of 1 hour before inoculation. I used a home made glove box that was sprayed with lysol twice before enoculation. I sterilised the needle before inoculation and after each 2 jars. 2 days later i did the same thing for my freind, but the only difference was that for him i used half pint jars and i didnt pressure cook them i boiled them for 2 hours and 20 min. All of those jars where cooled for 4 hours and 30 min. His jars where inoculated with B+ strain. He gave me 3 of his b+ jars for the work i did (he didnt have the time). THe pint jars where kept ib 80 degrees for 7 days and the half pints where in 80 for 5 days. after that i was forced to relocte the jars and scince then they have been at about 72 F. My friends jars have been kept at 75 F. Its been 19 days after inoculation for my Pint sized cambodians and there is no growth at all. Its been 17 days for the half pints. I have only one jar out of three that has growth. i saw first growth on the 11th day, it was about the size of an american penny. now on the 17th day it only doubled its size. My friend also only has one jar that has similar results to mine, but he saw his growth on the 12th day. and his is a little smaller than mine. So out of my 8 pint sized jars have nothing. and out of the 12 half pints 2 have only small growth on the 17th day.. Whats do you think can be the problem? Im pretty sure moisture amount is good. THe spores where purchased from "microtech". THe only thing i can think of that might be the problem is The spores might have been bad. Or its because of the Rye flour substitue. I dont think there is any contaminations either because there is no growth at all. What do you guys recomend? should i just restart and buy spores from a shroomery sponcor (i would have before but i didnt know about this site) or should i give them more time? THank you guys so much! and btw this is also my first grow
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted



Registered: 01/05/05
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: maximyuryev]
#7843159 - 01/07/08 11:22 AM (16 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
maximyuryev said: HI guys, on the 17th of december I incoulated 8 pint jars with Cambodian strain, Using PF tek. Virmiculite and Rye flour. I Presure cooked the jars at 15 psi for a bit over 1 hour. half where cooled untill they where cold to the touch. the other half where still warm. I inoculated in my bathroom which was sprayed down with lysol 3 times within a period of 1 hour before inoculation. I used a home made glove box that was sprayed with lysol twice before enoculation. I sterilised the needle before inoculation and after each 2 jars. 2 days later i did the same thing for my freind, but the only difference was that for him i used half pint jars and i didnt pressure cook them i boiled them for 2 hours and 20 min.
Always pc rye flour. [see endospores]
Quote:
All of those jars where cooled for 4 hours and 30 min.
No where near long enough to cool down.
Quote:
His jars where inoculated with B+ strain. He gave me 3 of his b+ jars for the work i did (he didnt have the time). THe pint jars where kept ib 80 degrees for 7 days and the half pints where in 80 for 5 days. after that i was forced to relocte the jars and scince then they have been at about 72 F. My friends jars have been kept at 75 F. Its been 19 days after inoculation for my Pint sized cambodians and there is no growth at all. Its been 17 days for the half pints. I have only one jar out of three that has growth. i saw first growth on the 11th day, it was about the size of an american penny. now on the 17th day it only doubled its size. My friend also only has one jar that has similar results to mine, but he saw his growth on the 12th day. and his is a little smaller than mine. So out of my 8 pint sized jars have nothing. and out of the 12 half pints 2 have only small growth on the 17th day.. Whats do you think can be the problem? Im pretty sure moisture amount is good. THe spores where purchased from "microtech". THe only thing i can think of that might be the problem is The spores might have been bad. Or its because of the Rye flour substitue. I dont think there is any contaminations either because there is no growth at all. What do you guys recomend? should i just restart and buy spores from a shroomery sponcor (i would have before but i didnt know about this site) or should i give them more time? THank you guys so much! and btw this is also my first grow
Leave your jars to cool longer next time.
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: maximyuryev]
#7843209 - 01/07/08 11:33 AM (16 years, 25 days ago) |
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I'd answer but I really can't read your post.
A bit more punctuation and a few paragraphs would be great.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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maximyuryev
Stranger


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 73
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: Nibin]
#7847068 - 01/08/08 08:32 AM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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Hi guys, Sorry FOr the horrible writing. I had to go to work and i had to write that in 5 min. Ill re write it hopefully i can get a couple more reply's . Thanks
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doc34
Fungitarian



Registered: 02/14/04
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: maximyuryev]
#7847094 - 01/08/08 08:47 AM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
half where cooled untill they where cold to the touch. the other half where still warm.
You must wait until the jars have completely cooled, meaning, OVERNIGHT! You killed your spores! Waiting untill the outside of the jar is cool doesn't mean that the inside is too-it's still hot enough to kill your spores. 104 degrees is lethal to them, but its not that hot to the touch, actually it is only slightly warm to the touch---your skin is 98.6 degrees= 8 degrees difference will kill your spores and you think they will be fine. The jars that did get growth were just cool enough for them to make it. Next time let your jars set overnight-why take the chance and lose all of the work you have done up to that point?
Patience is the key my friend.
Doc
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maximyuryev
Stranger


Registered: 12/14/07
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Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: doc34]
#7854931 - 01/09/08 05:21 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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Thank you doc34. I guess i will be restarting my grow. Do you think if i cut off a peice of the mycelium in the only jar that grew and put into an LC jar will it work? What website would you recomend to be cheap spores at? Thanks
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verminute
Stay out of theOTD!


Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 595
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: maximyuryev]
#7854983 - 01/09/08 05:37 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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I recommend lil' shop of spores...
You can cut the mycelium out and try, not a problem. However it might be more prone to contaim. so keep an eye on it!
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verminute
Stay out of theOTD!


Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 595
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: doc34]
#7855013 - 01/09/08 05:43 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
doc34 said: 104 degrees is lethal to them, but its not that hot to the touch, actually it is only slightly warm to the touch---your skin is 98.6 degrees= 8 degrees difference will kill your spores and you think they will be fine.
Nerves are able to sense any variation in degree... But what you said got me thinking...
As we know while mycelium is forming it produces heat, I've been able to feel this heat comparing non and active colonizing jars.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: verminute]
#7855034 - 01/09/08 05:48 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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As long as the jars are cool to the touch, the substrate will be cool enough too, spores die at 95F-100F, there was a post recently where someone only waited 90 minutes, not sure if he has growth yet but the responses were much more positive than all of you in this thread.
Overnight is recomended, but aslong as they are cool to the touch.
Yes, rye flour must be pressure cooked as it contains bacterial endospores that cannot be killed by steam sterilisation.
Are they a shroomery sponsor??
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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verminute
Stay out of theOTD!


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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: veda_sticks]
#7855043 - 01/09/08 05:50 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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I recall that thread, RR pointed out that a coffee cup, cool to the touch - the coffee inside will as well be cool too. Logical point.
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maximyuryev
Stranger


Registered: 12/14/07
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Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: verminute]
#7855096 - 01/09/08 06:00 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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so That means that heat might not have been the reason? If the rye flour wasnt properly steralised then nothing would grow at all? or would another mold grow? because at this point (over 2 weeks) all of my jars exept for 1 have no growth at all
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r311ik
n00b


Registered: 01/24/06
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: verminute]
#7855103 - 01/09/08 06:02 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
verminute said: I recall that thread, RR pointed out that a coffee cup, cool to the touch - the coffee inside will as well be cool too. Logical point.
ever eat cheese stix?
they can be cool outside, but you take a bite and a hot load of grease and cheese covers your mouth
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Nibin
Getting there



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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: r311ik]
#7855338 - 01/09/08 06:48 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
r311ik said:
Quote:
verminute said: I recall that thread, RR pointed out that a coffee cup, cool to the touch - the coffee inside will as well be cool too. Logical point.
ever eat cheese stix?
they can be cool outside, but you take a bite and a hot load of grease and cheese covers your mouth
Because the dough contains air that acts as a insulator. Glass or porcelain won't do that.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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doc34
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: veda_sticks]
#7855530 - 01/09/08 07:20 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
half where cooled untill they where cold to the touch. the other half where still warm.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You must wait until the jars have completely cooled, meaning, OVERNIGHT! You killed your spores! Waiting untill the outside of the jar is cool doesn't mean that the inside is too-it's still hot enough to kill your spores. 104 degrees is lethal to them, but its not that hot to the touch, actually it is only slightly warm to the touch---your skin is 98.6 degrees= 8 degrees difference will kill your spores and you think they will be fine. The jars that did get growth were just cool enough for them to make it. Next time let your jars set overnight-why take the chance and lose all of the work you have done up to that point?
Patience is the key my friend.
Doc
Listen, the lethal temperature for Cubensis spores is @ 104 degrees F! I don't know where everyone is getting their information.
Quote:
Because the dough contains air that acts as a insulator. Glass or porcelain won't do that.
Quote:
Using PF tek. Virmiculite and Rye flour.
What are the ingredients in dough? Flour and water, right? Add that up---Rye flour + water = dough,lol. Even if there is growth it is because that part of the jar was cool enough-if you inoculated into the center of the jars, you more than likely fried them. But, hey you don't have to listen to me-I'm just a meer pion amongst many!
Doc
Oh, yes you can take a piece and save it- Use my Agar Substitute Tek in my sig if you see any growth(Mycelia).
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Nibin
Getting there



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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: doc34]
#7855566 - 01/09/08 07:25 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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But the dough in a pf/rye cake hasn't been made to rise. It is the action of the yeast that introduces the air into the mix.
I'm not saying that the OP is fine (or that he isn't) I was solely commenting on the cheesy thing.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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wikedferret
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Registered: 04/08/07
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: Nibin]
#7855650 - 01/09/08 07:36 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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the rye flour made dough right? ok well they need room to grow the mycelium and with "dough" there is not enough room for the mycelium to stretch out. this could very well be the reason for no growth.
-------------------- lol i just lied to whoever was reading that.....
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Nibin
Getting there



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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: wikedferret]
#7855689 - 01/09/08 07:41 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
wikedferret said: the rye flour made dough right? ok well they need room to grow the mycelium and with "dough" there is not enough room for the mycelium to stretch out. this could very well be the reason for no growth.
The dough thing is a little off topic discussion on jars feeling cool on the outside = jar cool inside
Nothing else
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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fastfred
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: Nibin]
#7855903 - 01/09/08 08:20 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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If the glass is cool it should be fine. You inject the spores against the glass anyways so that is the temp that is important.
It seems pretty foolish to not let the jars cool completely though. After waiting through the sterilization cycle you might as well wait another few hours. Taking them out of the PC before they are cooled is a good way to suck contams in too.
Oh, and since you want "oppinons"... Learn to use paragraphs and the spell checker.
-FF
Edited by fastfred (01/09/08 09:50 PM)
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maximyuryev
Stranger


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 73
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: Nibin]
#7855912 - 01/09/08 08:21 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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So your saying that i might not have fried the spores but i might have also.. Lol. im guessing that i should just buy more spores
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verminute
Stay out of theOTD!


Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 595
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: Nibin]
#7859098 - 01/10/08 12:09 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nibin said:
Quote:
r311ik said:
Quote:
verminute said: I recall that thread, RR pointed out that a coffee cup, cool to the touch - the coffee inside will as well be cool too. Logical point.
ever eat cheese stix?
they can be cool outside, but you take a bite and a hot load of grease and cheese covers your mouth
Because the dough contains air that acts as a insulator. Glass or porcelain won't do that.
Exactly.
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verminute
Stay out of theOTD!


Registered: 11/16/07
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Re: Need some oppinons please [Re: maximyuryev]
#7859109 - 01/10/08 12:12 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
maximyuryev said: So your saying that i might not have fried the spores but i might have also.. Lol. im guessing that i should just buy more spores
You might have not shaken the syringes enough... A lot of possibilities...
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