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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7840767 - 01/06/08 06:32 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:

The truth is, trying to maintain 100% Rh will ruin your project.

82% to 92% is fine for casings.





I said 82-92 is fine for casings.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7842401 - 01/07/08 06:00 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:

The truth is, trying to maintain 100% Rh will ruin your project.

82% to 92% is fine for casings.





I said 82-92 is fine for casings.




Which we already know. You then continued to post wrong information like that condensation starts on all surfaces at 95% which is a load of rubbish.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7825131#7825131

A very good discussion on condensation between fastfred and me, should help clear up your misconceptions on condensation.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7842408 - 01/07/08 06:05 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
But what about all the talk that droplets on your pins will casue aborts?

Condensation begins on all surfaces at about 95%.

So if 92% is good enough, why not stop there, assuming the casing layer gives you another 5% micro.

Shouldn't you avoid condensation and misting untill pinset, then provide periodic mistings?




Droplets on your pins will not cause aborts. It's recommended to mist mushrooms. Air exchange must be provided because stagnant water sitting on a mushroom in stagnant air for an extended period WILL cause aborts.

Condensation does not begin on all surfaces at about 95%. My can of cold beer gets condensation in Arizona in the summer. I know it's not 95% there. Condensation forms on my windows in winter, even when humidity in the house is less than 50%. Condensation is a function of the temperature differential on either side of a surface. Condensation forms on the warm side. Condensation won't even form on your mushrooms at 100% humidity. If they get wet, it's because liquid water droplets were thrown on them, not humidity in the air.

92% humidity will be fine with a good casing layer. I prefer higher, but lower will also still work, only requiring more frequent misting.
RR




This was what i thought aswell, i have been misting my cakes quite heavily then fanning afterwords since following another thread on the subject, noone have aborted yet.


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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: somebody041]
    #7842539 - 01/07/08 07:44 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Im sure some people would disagree with me but what has always worked great for me and seemed to solve my early on problems with trich (green mold) is growing with the mind set of "the more moisture the better". Granted that only seems to be able to work with constant FAE. My cakes and casings constantly look as if they just were freshly rained on. I have a cool mist running 24/7 on high through two 1 inch tubes and a ultra sonic running 24/7 on low. I put about a quarter cup of alcohol in my humidifiers and PH balanced around 8 since trich loves conditions on the lower side of the ph scale. Other than that I have a drain hole to keep water from pooling up in the bottom of the tank.

Now like I said some people may disagree with this but it seemed like any time I couldn’t be home to mist my cakes a few times a day to keep them moist, I would come home to green mold all over everything. Ever since I switch to mass amounts of FAE and constant rain like conditions if you will, everything has been great.


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InvisibleDontPlay
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7842583 - 01/07/08 08:03 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

You put alcohol in your humidifier's water ? That doesn't sound like the best idea. I would think just following procedure during the process will prevent contaminant's.


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OfflineTwiggs
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: tahoe]
    #7842652 - 01/07/08 08:38 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
there is a lot of misinformation here




so ive found out :frown:


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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: DontPlay]
    #7842657 - 01/07/08 08:41 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Well the small amount of alcohol isn't to prevent contams on the cakes or casings. Is more so to keep the water fresh in the tanks. It probably wouldn't be a huge deal in the ultra sonic since i have to fill that up ever 2 days or so. but the cool mist is only filled up once ever week and a half or so. But from what ive read a lot of people on the boards also do the same thing. Some of the techs in the mushroom info section also say to add it.

Either way it doesn't seem to harm anything. If it did I'm sure i would know from the bruising. When i first started growing i ran out of alcohol and figured i could just add a splash of bleach to the tanks. Needless to say with in 5 mins of turning the humidifiers back on everything in my FC was blue and the few pins i had aborted as well as some of the half grown mushrooms. That def wasn't the best idea. Live and learn i guess. lol.


Edited by Digital Reality (01/07/08 08:44 AM)


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OfflineMYSTIQUE
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7842672 - 01/07/08 08:51 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

You should change your name to Cap'n Cubensis like cap'n crunch


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InvisibleDontPlay
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7842676 - 01/07/08 08:53 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

LOL yeah I would want to eat them if they had bleach in them that isn't the safest. I thought people added peroxide to keep the water clean. Never the less if its working and not harming anything thats cool. I just thought it might I wouldn't be happy if someone was spraying me with alcohol lol.


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: DontPlay]
    #7842752 - 01/07/08 09:19 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Fog. 100%RH. Also, the term relative humidity is a relative term and like all relative terms, subjectivity exists.


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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: DontPlay]
    #7843324 - 01/07/08 12:07 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Well the thing with peroxide is it breaks down in water with in a few mins if i remember correctly. its just water with an extra oxygen in it (H2o2). It might last longer than a few mins but from what i read it breaks down into regular water pretty quick. So its pretty much worthless in that aspect.

I have heard of people using iodine though to keep it fresh. never tried it myself. but ive seen a few posts on that.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7843428 - 01/07/08 12:54 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Yes, I know 95% Rh does not cause all surfaces to condense in all climates and conditions.

I meant condensation begins in my foaf's FCs around 95% Rh, there is little to no condensation at 92%, at least not in my foaf's FCs.

The relative humidity of a system is dependent not only on the temperature but also on the absolute pressure of the system of interest. Therefore, a change in relative humidity can be explained by a change in system temperature, a change in the absolute pressure of the system, or change in both of these system properties.

No one talks about pressure in terms of Rh, but it is as much a factor as temp.

Liquid water (and ice, at the appropriate temperature) will fail to lose mass through evaporation when exposed to saturated air.

Therefore there can be no evaporation at 100% Rh with 100% saturated air.

It may also correspond to the possibility of dew or fog forming (condensation), within a space that lacks temperature differences among its portions, for instance in response to decreasing temperature.


Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/09/08 12:13 PM)


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OfflineNebula
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7843641 - 01/07/08 01:46 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:The truth is, trying to maintain 100% Rh will ruin your project.



I wish you would back up your claims a little more. Give us the resources confirming your information. Or is it based on your personal experience? If so, describe your experiment and we can discuss your findings.
But you present your thoughts as facts without backing it up. This confuses newbies.


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Offlinexhooliganx
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: Nebula]
    #7846015 - 01/07/08 09:51 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

captain cubensi is a renigger. always renigging on what he said by changing his origional post and post title.

yes that's right a renigger.


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OfflineTwiggs
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Re: The Myth of 100% Humidity [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7846048 - 01/07/08 09:59 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

xhooliganx said:
captain cubensi is a renigger. always renigging on what he said by changing his origional post and post title.

yes that's right a renigger.





i say African engineering


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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: 95% Humidity is fine for Casings. [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7847017 - 01/08/08 07:41 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:

The truth is, trying to maintain 100% Rh will ruin your project.






I must have missed this to start with, but in what way shape or form will trying to maintain 100% ruin your project. I know that a ultra sonic isn't actual humidity, but it sure is a lot more moisture in the air that 100% RH. And as i said before i run mine 24/7 with a cool mist 24/7 and have great results. i just don't understand why people seem to think to much moisture is bad. or water droplets on cakes or mushrooms is bad. I have seen no evidence to prove otherwise and my cakes and casings are constantly wet like they have been rained on. I mean have you ever seen mushrooms in nature after a rain. They look like they have never been better.

The problem with to much moisture and people trying to grow at home IMO is they just don't have enough FAE to back up the extra moisture. So they have standing water in stale air. And the next thing you know, they have contams.

just my 2cents from my experience.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
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Re: 95% Humidity is fine for Casings. [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7853350 - 01/09/08 12:24 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Yes, I think you are correct, it isn't too much moisture that ruins projects, it's a lack of FAE.

If you achieve 100% Rh with FAE, you are golden, I never disputed that for a minute.

What I meant was, look at how many posts are from people stressing over why their digital hygrometer only reads 92-95% Rh, and that they should not worry so much at first.

Digital Hygrometers are junk, and most casings will fruit fine at 92% Rh, with loads of FAE.

If your hygrometer reads 92%, you can assume the micro-environment of the casing layer is giving you another 3-5%.

Get an analog hygrometer and calibrate it by wrapping in a damp towel for an hour, then set the needle to 99%.

"And as i said before i run mine 24/7 with a cool mist 24/7 and have great results."
DR

I am sure you do, but just a thought here, instead of running 2 electrical units 24/7, why not drill some holes, fill the bottom of your FC with 5 inches of damp, well drained perlite, and set the ultra on a timer to saturate the air every 20 minutes.

Most ultras on high can saturate a large FC within 5 minutes, and the air will stay at 99% for about 20 minutes, depending on conditions of course.

Running the ultra just three times per hour means you would be at 99% Rh nearly 24/7 but cut your electricity usage by more than 80%, while achieving the same goal.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: 95% Humidity is fine for Casings. [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7853554 - 01/09/08 01:08 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Also Digital Hygrometers can't reach accuracy above 75% humitidy...get a hair hygrometer ... its the best you can get IMO...If you buy a digital hygrometer...do me a favor and throw it in the freeway


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: 95% Humidity is fine for Casings. [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7853577 - 01/09/08 01:13 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Yes, I think you are correct, it isn't too much moisture that ruins projects, it's a lack of FAE.

If you achieve 100% Rh with FAE, you are golden, I never disputed that for a minute.

What I meant was, look at how many posts are from people stressing over why their digital hygrometer only reads 92-95% Rh, and that they should not worry so much at first.

Digital Hygrometers are junk, and most casings will fruit fine at 92% Rh, with loads of FAE.

If your hygrometer reads 92%, you can assume the micro-environment of the casing layer is giving you another 3-5%.

Get an analog hygrometer and calibrate it by wrapping in a damp towel for an hour, then set the needle to 99%.

"And as i said before i run mine 24/7 with a cool mist 24/7 and have great results."
DR

I am sure you do, but just a thought here, instead of running 2 electrical units 24/7, why not drill some holes, fill the bottom of your FC with 5 inches of damp, well drained perlite, and set the ultra on a timer to saturate the air every 20 minutes.

Most ultras on high can saturate a large FC within 5 minutes, and the air will stay at 99% for about 20 minutes, depending on conditions of course.

Running the ultra just three times per hour means you would be at 99% Rh nearly 24/7 but cut your electricity usage by more than 80%, while achieving the same goal.




I keep tellin people that about digital meters, i have one but i dont pay much attention to it, im just using it as a rough guide till i get an adjustable analogue 1.

Some of the readings i have had from my digi gauge are obviously bull.


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Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
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OfflineNebula
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Re: 95% Humidity is fine for Casings. [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7853937 - 01/09/08 02:16 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Digital Hygrometers are junk, and most casings will fruit fine at 92% Rh, with loads of FAE.



Yes, I can confirm this. I've tested 2 digital hygrometers, one is crap, the other one displays a humidity 3-4 percent too low. I carried out this salt test to check its accuracy:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4173283#4173283

One showed 71-72% percent humidity, but the crappy one showed 60%, so 15% too low.. unfortunately you cannot calibrate these hygrometers.


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