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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
Hominid
Male


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Phil Math / Phil Biology Problem
    #7838713 - 01/06/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Here's something to ponder:

Terrance has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 great-great grand parents, etc.

Assuming 20 years per generation, then 1000 years ago Terrence's ancestors should number 250 or 1.126 trillion, but there were less than a billion people living on Earth 1000 years ago.

What's going on here?


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come together


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Phil Math / Phil Biology Problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7838905 - 01/06/08 11:21 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Incest

edit- more specifically, the trillion grandparents need not be unique. One person can and does take many slots.


Edited by Qubit (01/06/08 11:22 AM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Phil Math / Phil Biology Problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7838908 - 01/06/08 11:22 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

AnastomosisJihad said:
Here's something to ponder:

Terrance has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 great-great grand parents, etc. 

Assuming 20 years per generation, then 1000 years ago Terrence's ancestors should number 250 or 1.126 trillion, but there were less than a billion people living on Earth 1000 years ago.

What's going on here?




What does it have to do with philosophy? :confused:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
Hominid
Male


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: Phil Math / Phil Biology Problem [Re: DieCommie]
    #7839429 - 01/06/08 01:33 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Incest

edit- more specifically, the trillion grandparents need not be unique. One person can and does take many slots.





Yep, that is the solution.

This is philosophical on many levels, especially in the areas of phil math and phil biology, courses offered at many universities.

There are two important lessons here. The first is that our natural intuitions based on mathematical and logical thinking often lead to absurdities. Just because somebody can prove something mathematically or logically does not necessarily make that something true. There are always unspoken assumptions involved in any proof, and frequently those assumptions are wrong.


Secondly and more interestingly, this thought experiments shows that "tree thinking" is fundamentally flawed in biology. There are no family trees, ancestral lineages within a population follow a reticulated net-like pattern, never a neatly branching tree.


--------------------
come together


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Phil Math / Phil Biology Problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7839834 - 01/06/08 02:41 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Interesting! Thanks for posting that. I think I'm gonna have to add that little nugget to my arsenal in preparation for the next time some college philosophy blowhard tries to argue that mathematical theories are fundamentally 'true.'


Edited by NiamhNyx (01/06/08 02:45 PM)


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Phil Math / Phil Biology Problem [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7839957 - 01/06/08 02:57 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Mathematical theory is only as good as what you put in. If you put good info in, you get good info out. The way the problem was worded was to purposefully put garbage in and then show that garbage comes out.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Phil Math / Phil Biology Problem [Re: DieCommie]
    #7841291 - 01/06/08 08:41 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

The point is that this problem is simple enough to solve, but it clearly demonstrates how easy it is to come up with ridiculous theories based on logically consistent premises. If you consider that a lot of mathematical problems are a whole fuck of a lot more abstract than this one (which is straight forward enough that that a bright second grader could probably solve it,) it becomes clear that at least some, if not a great deal of mathematical theory is little more than a wild flight of fancy. That's fine of course, but when we are talking about building models of reality based on such theories I think it's worth pointing out how easy a logical progression can lead to arbitrary and unreal conclusions.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Phil Math / Phil Biology Problem [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7842450 - 01/07/08 06:30 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

> What's going on here?

How fast do people die off?


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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