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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 26 days, 20 hours
Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7838338 - 01/06/08 06:53 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

1. This Lionheart blogger dude is a complete moron.
2. He is being arrested on suspision, not charged, until a full investigation has been carried out. As this law has also been applied to Muslim extremists it has to apply to both sides.
3. The law definitely seems heavy handed and over the top but its hardly Gitmo Bay.
4. What aspect of our libel law do you find amusing? The ridiculous level of litigation prevalent in the US is a constant source of amusement to stupid fucking limeys.
5. As for your concerns about how you would fare over here, let me assure you that you would have nothing to worry about. Ignorance has not yet been criminalised.


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
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Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: GazzBut]
    #7841421 - 01/06/08 09:13 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)





Civil laws in the USA cover this...............not criminal, which entails private citizens spending their own money, not the taxpayers.

(I must be blinded by hate and violence)


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (01/06/08 09:23 PM)


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OfflineRectul Threat
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 177
Loc: London
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7879715 - 01/14/08 06:35 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

If you think it's just in england you are tripping

Here's one in your own back yard m8

http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2006/10/jake-brahm-how-to-screw-up-your-life.html


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OfflineRectul Threat
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 177
Loc: London
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Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: DieCommie]
    #7879754 - 01/14/08 06:41 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Has england ever had free speech? I mean, I dont think they have an english version of the US's first amendment.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: Rectul Threat]
    #7879781 - 01/14/08 06:45 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Rectul Threat said:
If you think it's just in england you are tripping

Here's one in your own back yard m8

http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2006/10/jake-brahm-how-to-screw-up-your-life.html




are you joking?

In america, that guy said bombs were set to blow up stadiums full of people...

In UK, the law is this:

Quote:

18 (1) A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence if—

(a) he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or

(b) having regard to all the circumstances racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby.

27 (3) A person guilty of an offence under this Part is liable— (a) on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years or a fine or both;

To call this law a gross assault on freedo




So simply saying something (even if true) that would excite racial hatred is grounds for a max 7 year sentence. I'm sorry, but free speech in America is a pretty solid freedom.

You can form a group and advocate deporting all the jews or lobby for a law that would make it illegal for Asians to breed, and you would be protected. Not so in England.


btw.. does anyone know percisly what the grounds for arrest were? i.e. do the police over there have to stipulate the percise speech? Or can they give general notice that the blog is the offending publication, and that suffices?


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OfflineRectul Threat
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 177
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Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: johnm214]
    #7879856 - 01/14/08 06:59 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Rectul Threat said:
If you think it's just in england you are tripping

Here's one in your own back yard m8

http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2006/10/jake-brahm-how-to-screw-up-your-life.html




are you joking?

In america, that guy said bombs were set to blow up stadiums full of people...

In UK, the law is this:

Quote:

18 (1) A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence if—

(a) he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or

(b) having regard to all the circumstances racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby.

27 (3) A person guilty of an offence under this Part is liable— (a) on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years or a fine or both;

To call this law a gross assault on freedo




So simply saying something (even if true) that would excite racial hatred is grounds for a max 7 year sentence. I'm sorry, but free speech in America is a pretty solid freedom.

You can form a group and advocate deporting all the jews or lobby for a law that would make it illegal for Asians to breed, and you would be protected. Not so in England.


btw.. does anyone know percisly what the grounds for arrest were? i.e. do the police over there have to stipulate the percise speech? Or can they give general notice that the blog is the offending publication, and that suffices?



The law is generally only used in extreme cases, for example when the muslims protested the cartoon. Even then they only arrested a few of them.
I doubt very much that the guy will get anything more then a fine.


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OfflineRectul Threat
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Registered: 12/26/07
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Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: Rectul Threat]
    #7879905 - 01/14/08 07:06 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

LOL i just read the 'article'. He hasn't even been arrested yet and the police are 'threatning' him with arrest. Sounds like a complete wind up to me.
I live in the town that this is taking place btw.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: Rectul Threat]
    #7880042 - 01/14/08 07:31 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Rectul Threat said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta




Help me out. Where in the magna carta does it guarantee citizens the right to free speech (which includes hate speech)?

Im not disagreeing with you, I just dont see it.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: DieCommie]
    #7880288 - 01/14/08 08:18 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

A better question is why is he citing the magna carta? From everything I've read, its mostly rubbish nowadays

I believe there's only a few clauses that are still regarded as binding upon the government, and these deal w/ criminal procedure, not civil rights

And I don't recall that the magna carta ever guarenteed freedom of speech, and its lacking in England was one motivation for the 1st amendment to the US Const.

For some criticism of UK by the UN, here:

http://www.humanrightsblog.org/reports/archives/005363.html


But the biggest problem is the slander/libel laws, which are bullshit. And the fact that the crown can enforce these laws for private parties is more nonsense.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: Rectul Threat]
    #7880320 - 01/14/08 08:29 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Rectul Threat said:
LOL i just read the 'article'. He hasn't even been arrested yet and the police are 'threatning' him with arrest. Sounds like a complete wind up to me.
I live in the town that this is taking place btw.




well, the threat is that they have said they will arrest him, so its more of a promise

here's the email the blogger got, according to his attorney:

Quote:

QUOTE FROM IAN HOLDEN, BEDFORDSHIRE POLICE

The offence that I need to arrest you for is “Stir up Racial Hatred by displaying written material” contrary to sections 18(1) and 27(3) of the Public Order Act 1986.

You will be arrested on SUSPICION of the offence. You would only be charged following a full investigation based on all the relevant facts and CPS consent.

Paul I will see you on the 19/02/08 when I will tell you everything that you need to know. Due to being out of the office for six weeks I will not have access to my email as of tomorrow 04/01/08.

Ian

UNQUOTE





I think its insane that they will arrest him prior to determing if charges need to be brought. I can't claim this is a UK deal, as they pull this shit all the time in the states too, but its still bullshit.

They do this to force a plea out of you, and make you pony up some bond money they can profit from. They also can break you easier in jail... people aren't so tough once they've been stripped down and given their orange jumpsuit.

Bullshit. Figure out if your going to charge the guy first, then arrest him.


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OfflineRectul Threat
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Registered: 12/26/07
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Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: johnm214]
    #7883927 - 01/15/08 03:15 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

How do you know it was his attorney that sent this email?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: Rectul Threat]
    #7884654 - 01/15/08 05:22 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

The blogger recieved the email, the attorney apparently made it public.

As to whether or not its authentic, I don't know. I'm taking this guy at his word, so it could be a lie.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: GazzBut]
    #7886418 - 01/15/08 10:35 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

we have a different kind of lame lawsuit problem.

admittedly, there are things that each of us could borrow from each
other to improve both of our lots.

your libel laws are pretty fucking ridiculous. aside from the very
relevant point that sir trips makes, the burden of proof is flipped
between your country and ours.

there's a reason why the Church of Scientology uses the UK as it's
base of operations for global libel suits to silence it's critics.


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Registered: 06/23/07
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Re: Flaming gets you up to 7 years in merry old England [Re: xFrockx]
    #7887444 - 01/16/08 07:19 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
What about the ones who upheld them?  Was Winston Churchill an asshole?

Just trying to get you to see how dumb your generalization is, thats all.  Once you realize that my work here is done :smile:




No, he was a racist cunt that treated the Iraqi's/Iranians worse than any successive western government, and was one of the people responsible for the trouble in the middle east to this very day.

And his grave is but a quarter of an hour's bike ride from here. I should piss on it.


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