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InvisibleLuddite
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Registered: 03/23/06
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Ron Paul wants US theocracy
    #7836452 - 01/05/08 04:57 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

The War on Religion
by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

As we celebrate another Yuletide season, it’s hard not to notice that Christmas in America simply doesn’t feel the same anymore. Although an overwhelming majority of Americans celebrate Christmas, and those who don’t celebrate it overwhelmingly accept and respect our nation’s Christmas traditions, a certain shared public sentiment slowly has disappeared. The Christmas spirit, marked by a wonderful feeling of goodwill among men, is in danger of being lost in the ongoing war against religion.

Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few. The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity.

This growing bias explains why many of our wonderful Christmas traditions have been lost. Christmas pageants and plays, including Handel’s Messiah, have been banned from schools and community halls. Nativity scenes have been ordered removed from town squares, and even criticized as offensive when placed on private church lawns. Office Christmas parties have become taboo, replaced by colorless seasonal parties to ensure no employees feel threatened by a “hostile environment.” Even wholly non-religious decorations featuring Santa Claus, snowmen, and the like have been called into question as Christmas symbols that might cause discomfort. Earlier this month, firemen near Chicago reluctantly removed Christmas decorations from their firehouse after a complaint by some embittered busybody. Most noticeably, however, the once commonplace refrain of “Merry Christmas” has been replaced by the vague, ubiquitous “Happy Holidays.” But what holiday? Is Christmas some kind of secret, a word that cannot be uttered in public? Why have we allowed the secularists to intimidate us into downplaying our most cherished and meaningful Christian celebration?

The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.

The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: Luddite]
    #7837063 - 01/05/08 07:42 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

What is happening is that a now, sizable number of people are not only atheist, but also have an agenda of wiping out religion, and so are attempting to make religious people feel ashamed of expressing their beliefs. To accomplish this, they enforce tactics which are in contradiction to free speech rights.

People should be proud of their beliefs. I'm not Christian, but much of my family is, but I recognize the joy they get out of it, and they still appreciate my company, even my constant teasing about the ridiculousness of the holiday, but I don't shame them, and they, for me, do likewise.

Ron Paul would prevent a theocracy of conformity, where your good feelings and joy can't poison and embitter other's misery.

Face it, anyone who would be 'outraged' at spiritual celebration must be pretty miserable.


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Edited by Minstrel (01/05/08 07:47 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: Luddite]
    #7837066 - 01/05/08 07:43 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

"Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever
do, namely teach morality and civility."

I disagree that the state can never teach morality and civility.

I may not necessarily want it, but to extrapolate this claim it seems that
he intends to imply that only the church is able to teach morality and
civility to people.

This is a complete farce.

Religions, organized or otherwise do not hold a monopoly on morality.

Moral and civil behavior is not under the sole control of religion.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: afoaf]
    #7837078 - 01/05/08 07:47 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

I disagree w/ Paul on this shit, but whatever.

He's a protest vote for me anyways... maybe somebody's paying attention


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Invisiblebmiles
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Registered: 12/31/07
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: Minstrel]
    #7837087 - 01/05/08 07:50 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
What is happening is that a now, sizable number of people are not only atheist, but also have an agenda of wiping out religion, and so are attempting to make religious people feel ashamed of expressing their beliefs. To accomplish this, they enforce tactics which are in contradiction to free speech rights.




what kind of tactics are you talking about?


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Never go with a hippy to a second location.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: bmiles]
    #7837161 - 01/05/08 08:28 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

I disagree with Ron Paul on a lot of shit like abortion...


But I don't really care because any legal shit dealing with his beliefs he think should be handled at a state level...


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: BrAiN]
    #7837213 - 01/05/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

people who are offended by santa claus and snowmen and the phrase "merry christmas" are most likely assholes who the world wouldn't miss one bit if we threw them in front of a bus.



no, seriously.




christmas is nearly a wholly non-religious holiday.




never could figure how how muslim employees are more often than not allowed to take breaks at work to go privately pray at prescribed times.. yet you're not supposed to say "merry christmas" to someone because someone else could be offended, because you know santa eats babies.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7837333 - 01/05/08 09:29 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

your comments have nothing to do w/ the establishment clause
Buisnesses can have a fucking church in em if they want... The debate over stores saying happy holidays in lieu of merry christmas is a stupid triviality and reeks of folks trying to impose christianity on people, but whatever... buisness can do what the fuck they want, and their customers can demand everyone be given crucifixes as well

who cares


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: johnm214]
    #7837931 - 01/06/08 12:37 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

and there you go equating christmas with christianity


i assure you they're not half as related as you might think

yeh yeah yeah i know the christian christmas tradition.... fucking whatever. that.. is not.. today's christmas.


there's a christmas tradition that exists completely independantly of any christian beliefs. there's gift-giving and santa and reindeer and elves and rudolf and frosty the snowman and family, and boy howdy that sounds like a full holiday to me, and not one bit of it involves a church or some dude named hay-soos


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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Invisiblebmiles
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Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2,299
Loc: on the left side
Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: johnm214]
    #7837948 - 01/06/08 12:42 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
The debate over stores saying happy holidays in lieu of merry christmas is a stupid triviality and reeks of folks trying to impose christianity on people, but whatever...



How is saying happy holidays instead of merry Christmas imposing Christianity??


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Never go with a hippy to a second location.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: bmiles]
    #7837957 - 01/06/08 12:49 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

its not

it is the debate that reeks of this imposition... the loudmouths are the christians who are so offended a store wants to be as bland and innocuous as possible so some other religious zealot or atheist doesn't get all pissed off

I'm just sick of hearing people harp on how "omg they don't say merry christmas... everybody panic" who cares... though its fine if people wanna bitch to those stores, I think its a worthless and selfish motivation that drives this phenomena


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Invisiblebmiles
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Registered: 12/31/07
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: johnm214]
    #7838091 - 01/06/08 02:19 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

...


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Never go with a hippy to a second location.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: Ron Paul wants US theocracy [Re: afoaf]
    #7838599 - 01/06/08 09:49 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

can't live with it, can't kill the sheep.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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