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Invisiblemycofile
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dark syringes = hype?
    #783492 - 07/29/02 08:36 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Don't want to stir up trouble, but I've seen vendors talking about how dark their syringes are. And marketing it like it's a good thing, AKA the darker the syringes the better. I would like to open the dark syringe question up for comment/debate.

I've personally noticed that darker syringes aren't better for three reasons. 1) dark sryinges have large clumps of spores which make them visible. I've noticed that syringes with more evenly distributed spores provide better results. Some actually blend their spore solution, and add stabilizers to keep the spores from clumping. This results in a syringe which isn't as dark, but which is "hot" meaning no dead innoculation points. and 2) If it's not a matter of large clumps of spores, but of total spore load in a syringe, I don't think the more spores the merrier. In fact, I've noticed that having too many spores produces more tomentose/fluffy mycelium than rhizomorphic mycelium. This IMO not only slows growth, but hinders fruiting. Apparently, up to a certain spore load, the rhizomorphic strains quickly outrace the tomentose ones. But increase the spore load too much and there are more tomentose strains that the rhizomorphs have a harder time outracing. As we all know rhizo's grow faster and fruit better than fluffies. 3) This one's not quite as important, it's theoretical and not based on direct observance, rather deduction. The darker the syriges, the more spore prints used. The more spore prints used the higher the threat of contamination. Also, to a certain extent, the more prints a vendor needs, the higher his overhead which may be passed on to consumers or simply lead to vendor disgruntlement at aquiring all those prints.

Now the benefit of overly dark syringes would be for those people who stretch their syringes via dillution or liquid innoculum. But this isn't the majority of grower's.

I've noticed these things, and have heard others, even some vendors voice similar sentiment. I'm not trying to spread dissent, just voice an experienced opinion on providing quality product to our market. IMO super dark spore syringes are not the best product for the majority of grower's.

Discussion?


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisibleboxtop703
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: mycofile]
    #783565 - 07/29/02 09:32 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

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Offlinecdlove69
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: boxtop703]
    #783746 - 07/29/02 11:02 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

amen boxtop!

I love to see spores in my syringes... I just don't like when they all clump up together...

Big Clumps are a pain in the ass to break apart VIA shaking...

Any suggestions on breaking apart Big Spore Clumps and those clumps that seem to have germinated in the syringe... (Clear cloud around the spores)


--------------------
Hi Mr. Po-Po... I'm drunk!!!

The Little Guy! <-- Best Syringes I've recieved!
The Hawks Eye <-- Best prints I've recieved!
The Sporeworks <-- Awesome service


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: boxtop703]
    #783788 - 07/29/02 11:28 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I hear you boxtop, and definitely on the price thing. To a certain extent it's just as easy to produce 75 prints as it is 50 prints. That part was the least of my concerns. And I didn't mean to single you out, although you were the impetus behind this post. I remember well when 3m started bragging about his dark syringes, and thats when I first learned of the disadvantages of dark syringes.

Perhaps I could encourage you to have a tester do an experiment for you. Use say 2ccs of solution from a dark syringe to innoculate a PF cake. Then use 2cc's of a less dense solution to do the same. Assuming everything equal (mostly distribution of spores in the clear syringe...shake it baby..) I think it will be rather obvious that the clear syringe produces more rhizos and the dark syringe produces more tomentose. Perhaps testing this on agar may be more visible. You get the picture.

Anyway, after a series of tests, I believe you will see what I and others have observed. Then you have the akward position of trying to satisfy a market demand based on hype and myth, or providing the best product for the community. Beta cause it's better, or VHS cause that's what the idiots want? You see, by marketing the dark syringes, you are in fact perpetuating the myth rather than providing what is more helpful. I know, tough position to be in. Even if you tried as other vendors have to educate folks that the dark syringe is not better, myths are hard to remove from the psyche of the purchasing public. It is of course your call, but I would recomend you have a series of simple experiments done for you, call it R&D if you wish Just thought I'd bring this to your attention if you weren't already aware of it through experience.

Now, I do admit it's likely a subtle difference compared to some of the other variables, but I've always been impressed with how much dedication and perfectionism exists in our vendors and their products.

Anyone else have thoughts to add? Other vendors who have done similar research?


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Anonymous

Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: boxtop703]
    #784510 - 07/29/02 05:21 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

i don't think you can see spores wih the naked eye. they measure less than a micron in length. even clumped together i would think they'd be invisible. perhaps all that dark stuff is not spores but trauma, crap that falls out of the gills with the spores...


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OfflineKingBolete
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: boxtop703]
    #784753 - 07/29/02 07:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hey there,

Your damned if you do and damned if you don't....and I was one of those people who told you that is what I wanted. I remember that and I remember you giving me the straight poop about the syringes I got from you and now I know you were shooting straight to me. I have several of your items that are clear as water and they work(ed) absolutely perfectly. I have a prepared my own that are both clear and have visible material...but most are clear as the prints I have are just not really sporulated heavily..but they work great if prepared correctly. I appreciate you putting your customers first but now I know what you sent me was good, clear or dark. Thanks bro@eitherwayisgood.syr ....heheh! I have a big ole jar of T3 almost ready on rye and it came from a "Clear One".

Best regards,

KingBolete

PS...what is the type of mycelium that seems to be thread or filament like. TC's seem to have that thread like mycelium. What is the correct term for that??


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Invisibleboxtop703
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: mycofile]
    #784804 - 07/29/02 07:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: mycofile]
    #785297 - 07/29/02 11:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

"tomentose"

That's the word I was looking for earlier. It's the main drawback of WakingUpLate's "dry tek" where jars are made up dry and all water is added with the spores, distributing the spores evenly all throughout the cake.

Having inocculation points encourages more rhizomorphs, IMO. I think one strain wins out at each inoculation point.

Drytek should be performed with clone mycelium solution. I think that would result in fruiting 2 weeks from inoculation.

As for clumpy spores, I think Sodium Silicate could be used to break up the clumps into individual spores. That is what is used as a "defloculent" in liquid clay slip. It is what makes it liquid rather than increasing water content.

Sodium Silicate causes the particles of clay to repel each other rather than attract.



--------------------


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Offlinepleezr
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: mycofile]
    #785344 - 07/30/02 12:22 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

In fact, I've noticed that having too many spores produces more tomentose/fluffy mycelium than rhizomorphic mycelium.


Great point! I have noticed this also.
In reply to:

Perhaps testing this on agar may be more visible.


I have experienced so on an agar plate. Half the plate being fluffy and the other half rhizomorphic with hyphical knots forming massively. This was a Acadian Coast isolate.


--------------------
pleezr

"Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!!"


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Offlinepleezr
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: ]
    #785351 - 07/30/02 12:26 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

i don't think you can see spores wih the naked eye. they measure less than a micron in length. even clumped together i would think they'd be invisible. perhaps all that dark stuff is not spores but trauma, crap that falls out of the gills with the spores...


You cant see a single spore with the nake eye but clumps of spores are easily visible. Anything you can see is thousands of spores. It is not any crap at all, its thousands of spores. One wants a syringe to be sterile and not full of crap which is contam likely.



--------------------
pleezr

"Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!!"


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Invisibleboxtop703
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: boxtop703]
    #787728 - 07/31/02 07:59 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

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OfflineMeneerCactus
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Making a world syringe standard!!! [Re: mycofile]
    #788403 - 07/31/02 01:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

High,

Well starting to make dark syringes seems something which will have great consequenses. Other vendors will follow, with all consequenses.
I think that all vendors should garde the Shrooming busness. Keeping it stable and a example for the the OMC.

Why not agree together to sell the same sporee solution???? Making the first world standard!!!! Impress me!?

A unstable market is not good, it leads to profit loose for all vendors in the end.
If competition is like this (and it is a competative idea!!), were is the love to be found?

This site was created to help stop the spread of dangerous misinformation related to psychedelic mushrooms, so that people can make intelligent, informed decisions about what they put in their bodies.

Well I have seen a vendor war before in my life. I heard about price lowering actions before and heard about the effects. Well more spores for the same prices makes the spores cheaper. Meaning an other price lowerance!! We know the consequences!
As far as I can see non of this has to do anything with the statement above. So I hope that darksyringes stuff will be stopped by Thor.

I think as a sponsoring vendor on the shroomery, you have to behave conform the statement. And be an example in a good mushy way.
And I think the Boss should garde that statement better.






--------------------
"Millions of years of evolution just to .... light up a joint"


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OfflineKilla420
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: boxtop703]
    #788495 - 07/31/02 02:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

If I had a choice of either a dark syringe from vendor A, or a light syringe from vendor B, all the same price, its a no brainer that I would get the darker one. I think a lot of people would do the same thing. Why wouldnt you want a dark syringe in the first place. You could always just dilute it down to however many light syringes you want. You would be getting say three for the price of one. I think that its cool that your doing this boxtop, dont stop just b/c a few people dont like the idea of dark syringes.


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Anonymous

Re: Making a world syringe standard!!! [Re: MeneerCactus]
    #788519 - 07/31/02 02:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

'Dark syringes' are just another example of the sleazy used-car salesman type of marketing which has brought the level of this forum down in the past year or so.

Putting a whole print in a syringe is just a waste of spores, kinda like mega vitimins which mostly end up as waste product because your body can only process so much at a time. Same with protien. That huge steak you payed a fortune for? Most of the protien in it went down the toilet.



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Invisibleboxtop703
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Re: Making a world syringe standard!!! [Re: MeneerCactus]
    #788537 - 07/31/02 03:14 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: dark syringes = hype? [Re: mycofile]
    #788554 - 07/31/02 03:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

Don't want to stir up trouble, but I've seen vendors talking about how dark their syringes are. And marketing it like it's a good thing, AKA the darker the syringes the better. I would like to open the dark syringe question up for comment/debate.



Well....you did stir up something.
I have had more flames trying to get posted in this thread than its worth.
So I'm closing this thread and you can go start another one in the Advanced Mushroom Cult and debate the issue over there if they will let you.
If not you can debate it in the Mushroom Cult or in pm's.




--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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