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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: PyroBurns]
    #7838560 - 01/06/08 09:37 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Article 1 references are to studies regarding consumption of Omega 3 vs. low-fat diets. Fish is the only animal product which provides a beneficial proportion of Omega 3 to Omega 6.

Article 2 references are to studies regarding consumption of coconut oil, which provides saturated fat in the form of Lauric acid (the same type of saturated fat as human milk). This is simply not comparable to saturated fat from animals, and so this study does not support your assertions.

Article 3 references are to studies regarding levels of blood serum cholesterol, not regarding consumption of animal fats. Again, this does not support your assertions.

If you would like to view links to the ENORMOUS body of research which shows that consuming animal-source saturated fats is linked to premature death and serious illness, check out this thread:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6779751#6779751


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: Veritas]
    #7838652 - 01/06/08 10:07 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

One suggestion. That study you keep linking to is gone. There is only the first page available. I will agree to a large extent. Animal fat can be deadly...especially to people who are mostly sedentary.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7839334 - 01/06/08 01:15 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Which one? The Seventh Day Adventist study?

Edit: All the studies I've linked to in that thread still work for me.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: Veritas]
    #7839625 - 01/06/08 02:06 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Never mind. It works. I am an idiot.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinesome1whoisntme
Stranger


Registered: 09/21/05
Posts: 882
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7839956 - 01/06/08 02:57 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quinoa is the ideal grain, because it has all the essential amino acids (protien building blocks your body does not synthesize) and in the right proportions for a human body.
It tastes like crap though.
Here's how I cook it to make it rather good:
You just make quinoa pilaf. Sautee some small diced carrots, onions, and celery in some butter quickly over medium heat, then add the quinoa and stir until it's all coated. Let it cook on medium heat for about 10 minutes, stirring every minute. There should be no browning.
Then, add enough stock or broth (I prefer chicken stock) to Just cover the grain, and bring that to a simmer. Keep adding liquid until the grain is at the right consistency, then raise the heat and stir constantly to drive off the rest of the moisture.
and Voila! Palatable quinoa!


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"Ignore the distortion you're forced to percieve and believe that what supercedes is love, but who agrees?"


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Offlineimagine
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Registered: 09/24/05
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Loc: CA
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: Newbie]
    #7840026 - 01/06/08 03:09 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Right now i'm eating brocoli with a LITTLE butter and seasoned salt, as well as tuna with just a few drops of mayo...decent to me :cool:


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InvisiblePyroBurns
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: imagine]
    #7840410 - 01/06/08 04:52 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

In my opinion, it is the carbohydrates that are deadly and should be strictly controlled. Not the animal fats.

I'll look up some more studies, but it'll take awhile. I don't keep that stuff on hand.


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Remember to cut your nails regularly.



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Offlinesome1whoisntme
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Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: PyroBurns]
    #7840505 - 01/06/08 05:18 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

It depends on the type of carbohydrate. Look up "glycemic index"


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InvisiblePyroBurns
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: some1whoisntme]
    #7840516 - 01/06/08 05:21 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

I know of the GI. Still, most carbohydrates are useless and offer no nutritive value. I'd like to learn more about endurance and muscle building before I totally dismiss them (save for veggies), but so far I see absolutely no benefit for the average person.

Here's another fat thing:

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html


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Remember to cut your nails regularly.



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Offlinesome1whoisntme
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Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: PyroBurns]
    #7840551 - 01/06/08 05:29 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Fruits and grains have been part of the human diet for a very long time in many cultures... Your brain and muscles run on glucose. I guess I don't understand why you don't think carbohydrates are neccessary...


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InvisiblePyroBurns
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: some1whoisntme]
    #7840593 - 01/06/08 05:39 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Your brain can run on glucose on its own without outside help (a tithe system that takes a few grams of protein). Otherwise it runs partially on ketones which I find to be much better. I feel way more focused, stable, and smart on them.

Grains haven't been part of our diets for very long at all on the human timeline and aren't necessary at all.

Fruits where also much less common and weren't bred to have as much sugar as they do in the modern day.


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Remember to cut your nails regularly.



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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
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Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: some1whoisntme]
    #7840799 - 01/06/08 06:44 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Fruits and grains have been part of the human diet for a very long time in many cultures... Your brain and muscles run on glucose



You are very correct.

Dismissing carbs completely is stupid. Carbs such as sugar and processed cereals are useless, but all whole food carbs are essential. Apparently PyroBurns is not reading the articles that he is linking. They seem to counter the advice he offers.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisiblePyroBurns
душа кофе


Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7840971 - 01/06/08 07:32 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

I don't remember dismissing carbs completely. Veggies and certain fruit in moderate amounts are fine. Hell even modern fruit in small amounts, even though they've been modified so much.

I'll also admit that I'm not the best public speaker, so it can be easier to discredit my posts. However, it is the truth that diets high in fat are far superior to those that aren't. And saturated fat and dietary cholesterol are necessary. They do not harm your heart. Maybe they can have some negative effects in excess (I wouldn't know what, exactly), but what is the point of excess? Certainly not the amounts we have been given by health organizations (which say to use fats sparingly, and fill up on carbs).

And would they even be attainable? It's not easy eating a lot of bacon or drinking straight up heavy cream.


Read the book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes. There is a lot of information there about saturated fat, cholesterol, and studies done on them. Including studies on weight loss and fiber among other things.


--------------------
Remember to cut your nails regularly.



Edited by PyroBurns (01/06/08 07:41 PM)


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Invisiblemachination
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Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Hringhorni
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: PyroBurns]
    #7841013 - 01/06/08 07:41 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

raw meat, blood, seeds


--------------------
"Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
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Posts: 10,675
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Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: Newbie]
    #7841060 - 01/06/08 07:51 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quinoa is super healthy -

"Quinoa was of great nutritional importance in pre-Columbian Andean civilizations, being secondary only to the potato, and followed in third place by maize. In contemporary times this crop has come to be highly appreciated for its nutritional value, as its protein content is very high (12%–18%). Unlike wheat or rice (which are low in lysine), quinoa contains a balanced set of essential amino acids for humans, making it an unusually complete food. This means it takes less quinoa protein to meet one's needs than wheat protein. It is a good source of dietary fiber and phosphorus and is high in magnesium and iron. Quinoa is gluten free and considered easy to digest." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinoa#Nutritional_value

and Hemp Seeds! -

"30–35% of the weight of hempseed is oil containing 80% essential fatty acids (EFAs), linoleic acid (LA, 50-70%), alpha-linolenic acid (ALA, 15–25%) and Gamma-Linolenic_acid (GLA, 1–6%).[5][6] The proportions of linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid in hempseed oil meet human requirements for EFAs..... Hemp seed also contains 20% complete and highly-digestible protein,[8] 1/3 as edestin protein and 2/3 as albumins. Its high quality amino acid composition is closer to "complete" sources of proteins (meat, milk, eggs) than all other oil seeds except quinoa and soy.[9]

The ALA contained in plant seed oils by itself is sufficient for nutrition, as the human body is capable of converting it into other fatty acids. But this conversion process is inefficient, and the broader spectrum of omega-3 fatty acids obtained from oily fish is easier for the body to immediately use. See Oily fish#Oils from fish or plants as a source of omega-3 fatty acids."


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GO OUTSIDE.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: PyroBurns]
    #7841152 - 01/06/08 08:12 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

However, it is the truth that diets high in fat are far superior to those that aren't. And saturated fat and dietary cholesterol are necessary.




You have not supported this assertion in the slightest.  Moderate amounts of plant-sourced essential fatty acids are necessary and important for optimal health.  Complex carbohydrates are essential, as are plant-sourced proteins.  The truth is, you are way off the mark here.

I highly recommend reading something that is not endorsed by the Weston A. Price Foundation.  Founded by a dentist, the foundation has an abysmal reputation amongst those who actually study nutrition.  The references they use to support their articles do not, in fact, support their claims.  If you take the time to follow up on the many citations which they list, the research has little or nothing to do with what they are asserting.

And now, back to our regularly-scheduled list of most-nutritious foods!  :wink:


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Offlinesome1whoisntme
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Registered: 09/21/05
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Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: Veritas]
    #7841173 - 01/06/08 08:18 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Most medical resources regard ketosis as a physiological state associated with chronic starvation.[citation needed] Glucose is regarded as the preferred energy source for all cells in the body with ketosis being regarded as a crisis reaction of the body to a lack of carbohydrates in the diet. In recent years this viewpoint, both the body's preference for glucose and the dangers associated with ketosis, has been challenged by some doctors.[7][8][9]



Note which statement is supported by citations and which isn't in the paragraph above... there may be something to this, though I don't believe consuming carbohydrates is harmful.


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InvisiblePyroBurns
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: some1whoisntme]
    #7841215 - 01/06/08 08:25 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Complex carbs are essential? I'd like to see that backed up.

Again I'll pitch the Good Calories, Bad Calories book simply because it has the best amount of cited research. I don't really know where you're going with the Weston A. Price thing.

The whole ketosis thing is guilt by association. Just because aspects of ketosis use the same pathways as starvation doesn't mean it has anything to do with it. And the fact that the brain will run preferrably off of glucose is because it is more present, not because it is better. Which I guess it can be for some people, but many prefer to be in ketosis.


--------------------
Remember to cut your nails regularly.



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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: PyroBurns]
    #7841314 - 01/06/08 08:46 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Read the links in the thread I've already linked to here.  Complex carbs are whole grains, veggies & fruits.  The fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants & slow-acting carbohydrates provided by these foods are essential to human health.  Diets which include a high proportion of complex carbs have been shown to significantly reduce the incidence of cancer, heart disease, and diabetes.

The author of "Good Calories, Bad Calories" claims that refined carbs are unhealthy, not that complex carbs should be avoided.  I agree 100% with the link between high consumption of refined carbs (white flour and sugar) and poor health.  You don't seem to understand the studies you are referencing to support your assertions.  :shrug:


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InvisiblePyroBurns
душа кофе


Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: List Your most Nutritious Foods [Re: Veritas]
    #7841504 - 01/06/08 09:32 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

No, I do. I still assert that most carbohydrates are still useless.

Why eat quinoa if I can get better nutrition from a slab of steak (and maybe a veggie to make up for any micronutrient I missed)? Millet? Whole wheat?

Complex carbs are THE carbs you should be eating, but why eat them at all (targeting mainly whole grains and more sugar filled veggies here)?

If people can do perfectly fine on meats, nuts, veggies, and limited fruit why implement grains? They aren't very nutritionally dense and I'd like to see studies showing benefit when introduced rather than merely replacing other carbs.

It's extremely obvious that refined carbs are a problem, but less people see that less refined carbs are also worthless save for some veggies and fruits. Taubes also discusses this.


--------------------
Remember to cut your nails regularly.



Edited by PyroBurns (01/06/08 09:34 PM)


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