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CureCat
Strangest


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: georgeM]
#7848870 - 01/08/08 04:32 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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At least it's not dial-up....
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GGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 8,946
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: cactu]
#7849498 - 01/08/08 06:08 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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cactus, that is a lot of photographs!
for some reason the last few dozen of them only appeared as white boxes with red x's in them
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cactu
culture and magic


Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: GGreatOne234]
#7849694 - 01/08/08 06:49 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
GGreatOne234 said: cactu, that is a lot of photographs!
for some reason the last few dozen of them only appeared as white boxes with red x's in them
really that´s too bad i have a slow conection and sometimes if not always have to hit reload many times , i check then and their are fine i can see then someone else can all my best.
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  cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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Knoa6
Sunn 0)))



Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 1,237
Loc: USA-zone 7
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: cactu]
#7849751 - 01/08/08 07:01 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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Looks like a wonderful road-trip! Do you think that Loph will pup from where you cut it? It may be best to leave an aureole, but I'm not sure... Nice pictures!!!
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cactu
culture and magic


Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: Knoa6]
#7849828 - 01/08/08 07:19 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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Knoa6 is a honor to have out of the entheo here in the shrooms .hello i guees you don´´t know how to harvest lophophora , lophophora have most of it body underground like more than 80% of the body is the tap rot, the huichols indias show the way to harvest plant for years , for centurys, the meristeme of lophophora is very deep and sometimes can regenerate from there , but if you cut down the meristeme the wound will healt and then side head will developed , in ceremonial area of the desert where most people get to cut peyote and indias made ceremony you can find that exactly and you can study year after year the fenomenon, you see where the central head was cut and few more developen in the side if you buried the sand you can see the scars , of it, peyote is a perenial plant, that can live for centuris i have seem carpet of peyote family of more that 50 together old monster but to get to those places is another story , this was a random find in a polace that is been colonice resently you see the peyote distribution is amazing they really grow and distribute by seed for the dessert last year more rain are falling in the desert and this seem to be affecting in a posite way the distribution they fallow the rain rives that water form , is amazing to see in person , how a cactus move in the landscape in years and centurys, , they need special condition to survive even that people look the desert and think all is the same, is not they need very importand the nursery plants, micorrizal play a good role still not undestood, so they need plant protector, they need special condition in the soil not all the soil in the desert is the same, when you find that is very likeli to find peyotes , for me it was matter of 3 intented, and work , all my best vibrations. i wish you could see how many botton the indias take , haha all my best.
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  cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: cactu]
#7849925 - 01/08/08 07:39 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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sweet pics cactu, I wish to someday try my hand at peyote hunting. Unfortunately they are pretty rare in south texas... keep the traditions alive man. you are a modern age version of the shamans that inhabited mexico eons ago, but im sure youve already made that connection.
peace.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 1 hour, 17 minutes
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: cactu]
#7850121 - 01/08/08 08:10 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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What are the peyote indicator species?
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Knoa6
Sunn 0)))



Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 1,237
Loc: USA-zone 7
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7850347 - 01/08/08 08:44 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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No, I've never harvested Peyote or even seen it in the wild and I have looked before around Nuevo Laredo. It is good to know that the plant you harvested will probably survive. I would imagine a higher level of lime in the Lophophora's soil in the north shade of Acacias. It has to be exciting to find them in the wild, even if only to photograph. Did you see any Ariocarpus or Astophytum on your expedition? I have never seen a cactus pup out of the meristem after cutting it, but I have if the meristem is damaged ,so I'm sure it is possible. I just thought the chances would be better if an areole was left, but I'm sure there are some left under the surface of the soil. Take care Cactu! I plan to explore more of Mexico myself, although Peru is my next expedition to look forward to now.
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cactu
culture and magic


Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7850374 - 01/08/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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the peyote indicator species are several depend on tipe of soil and rock aroun can range from some tree very rare like mesquite, and the most commond and most easy to detect are governadora plant la governadora is a plant that grow only in the untouch desert from i guees is call creosonte bush , this is the mother nursery bush it made a special enviroment for peyote you see peyote are not a total open light they like the shadow and protection of the bush , another tipe of plant is sangre de drago i guees scientific name is jatropa sanguinea, agave sp, specially agave lechuguilla forgot the specie. anothe plant are hoja seen forgot scientific name.then sometimes in really conserve habitad the yucca trees , , what you have to look in the terraing are slighty high elevations , with alcaline rock, limestone, and the presence of other cactuces as well , i will tell you this and is not secret but is amazing to wacht it the peyote when you are in a guest apart of all the bilogical reference you have to took to it , to speak out loud you are looking for it, i guees sound weird but all goes more easy when you do it. is true , you sake hand with him fell equal, give respect, and he will find you not much diference as mushrooms sometimes, but a another world, the peyote is old , the mushrooms is new more like a child , the peyote ia and old man he know all because the experience have teach him , something very importand for peyote, always leave a gift , give him something make offers , and the first one you can not cut i repeat , not cut the first one , this one you speak to him , thank and give your offer, the peyote give what you give if you give a lot it will give a lot , so not cut the first one a tradition for centurys, we have to respect even we don´t undestand the consep of it, and the next thing you see believe , and believe me good , you will find then all , is like than you find one qand you find then all , amazing then you move and find familys, in flower seed , the rock are very importand and look for rivers in the dessert, those combination have made undestand the desert i have took me more than 10 years to undestand all that i just say to you in few words, the first time i was in the desert i was like what this is the desert but is full of plant , i was waiting a dry sahara desert, but know you can even find water if you know where to look, so the basic ,the soil alcaline not all color are the same look for white brown color , then the structure rock , elevation depresions, now the vegetation , you see yuccas good they can be seeing in the distance, then , look for la gobernadora is not any this place is been disturben here a some let get there, ok i beging to see other cactuces and more of the globose cactuces and not columnar or prickly pearl cactus you know the one that grow big , then what people always mised , peyote is hidden not in the open , you see somethin hard but with out spines is not a peyote but ariocarpus, or astrofitum very few cactuces don´´t have spines. hey i think i saw something, , ok friend let´s pray , where in his domains, spectacular i could cry just by remenbering my first time so magical, as the book said, some day i will tell you my experience, i really wish you could make some time out of the rainy seasom to experiment the desert, and other curiosities in the forest, my dear friend alan this is something you, all ,have to live a path we have to walk .
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  cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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biospun
homo sapien



Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 282
Loc: USA
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: cactu]
#7850472 - 01/08/08 09:00 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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wow, what beautiful pics and wisdom
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cactu
culture and magic


Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: cactu]
#7850644 - 01/08/08 09:30 PM (16 years, 24 days ago) |
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quote]Knoa6 said:
I have never seen a cactus pup out of the meristem after cutting it, but I have if the meristem is damaged ,so I'm sure it is possible. I just thought the chances would be better if an areole was left, but I'm sure there are some left under the surface of the soil. Take care Cactu! I plan to explore more of Mexico myself, although Peru is my next expedition to look forward to now.
too bad mi picture of the cut peyote is blurry but in the center you can see another coloration , what happend with lophophora is that the genus have the meristem buried in the flesh inside not exposed as all other cactuces, is like is nature undestand that will offer part of his life , but can reborn with time and rest, in a pot everithing happend so slow i know i also grow my own , that why i said and other scientific micorrizal fungi play a ´special role in nature, help plant in many ways , some peyote tap rot can go long as 30 cm if the condition permit that type of grow , also if the meristem is cut the plant have many facilities to produce head shot more that other cactuces i have seem there my theory is some phentillamines sorry in spanish can act as fitohormones, as some triptamines do, well if you by change cut ones of the hairy ones you will see it you can still replant the part you took , some time my head are rest for long time and they begging to developend roots even are flat disc , i know you will undestand, the ability to grow of peyote is amazing but for sure , don´t get me wrong is so easy to do it wrong , and damage to if you cut specimen with more than 4 centimeter wide and more than 6 centimeter long tsp root they wiill survive with not much harm i tell you is like peyote know it will be cut it his destiny and is prepared to give part of his life to you , he undestand that, oohh i was forgeting in that place i found a astrofytum you would not imaging how dificult is to find astrofitum very , very very dificult almost to extincion no kidding , ariocarpus are very easy to find in some location and many types people call it peyote brujo and is something you don´t like to mess with it, is a nasty stuff, almost like deliriogens or atropina, very not undestood all that quimical in some species, but for sure psicoative, but para los locos people said, now astrofitum are use in folk medicine , and are something no one use recreational ....i know you where not asking that just sharing cactuces are other of mi pásion , mi other is orchids , i dedicate mi life to know all i can about all but this i dedicate more. list as this mushrooms, all of it, cactuces,orchids and buttefly , then the rest of the world . that i also like i also like people but not too much,i like more plants.. one thing i will desmistified for all of you and specially mi own is the secret cult of l. diffusa, all my best vibration to you all
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  cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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Wiseguy
Newfoundlander.


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 194
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: georgeM]
#7853551 - 01/09/08 01:07 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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awesome pics. always a pleasure.
thanks for sharing!
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Wiseguy
Newfoundlander.


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 194
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: Wiseguy]
#7859155 - 01/10/08 12:20 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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also,
Ruby, Ruby, Ruby, Ruby Soho.
Sorry... I'm sure no one even gets that.
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Knoa6
Sunn 0)))



Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 1,237
Loc: USA-zone 7
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: Wiseguy]
#7861197 - 01/10/08 07:30 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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L. diffusa cults??? Tell more please! I have been very interested in the effects of Diffusa as I have never heard a report of the use...
Quote:
cactu said: ariocarpus are very easy to find in some location and many types people call it peyote brujo and is something you don´t like to mess with it, is a nasty stuff, almost like deliriogens or atropina, very not undestood all that quimical in some species, but for sure psicoative, but para los locos people said n
I have read contrary reports. Which species of Ario's are you referring to? Apparently smoked A. retusus has quite pleasurable effects, and synergizes nicely with mescaline-this is only from reports I have read ;no first hand experience.There many more species of Ariocarpus than Lophophora and I would bet the chemical make-up varies greatly from species to species. I suppose you refer to A.fissuratus, which is felt to be more powerful than Peyote by some native tribes. However I have also read reports of fissuratus having a stimulant like quality in very low chewed doses.
A.fissuratus in cultivation
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cactu
culture and magic


Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: Knoa6]
#7861524 - 01/10/08 08:36 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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hello , well ariocarpus fisurattos does not grow in san luis potosi , i guess more to chihuahua arizona, the ones that grow most common around here is retusus and many of is varietys , agavoides very rare, i personally have smoke the ariocarpus but is a real bad taste with intense cotton mouth and really no noticeable effect, now if you eat only like 6 spines is another story , i tell you those shit are not for me, the indians say the ones from here are not good there is however one specie , that some chaman use but are mostly use for dark shaman and also many other cactuces, and other plants, too, that people call peyote in fact peyote mean medicine in aztec lenguage , the word the nahualt peyolt. mean medicine, so many peyote exist ariocarpus are call peyote brujo , other aricarpus peyote simarron, peyote del corredor, hikuri, the species of ariocarpus have diferent mix up , theree are some phenetilaminas very active but the effect is some how very strange , toxic, body load, more than peyote, many have the estimilating effect in low doses, as some mammillaria , , but not really as psicoactive as peyote and other tend to be more drowsy, and aroicarpus retusus of san luis tend to be deliorogen , i ate a smal freaction but friend where rol in a party for 3 days they almost kill thenselfs and don´t remenber notting, that the wort you forget most of the experience, and you are not in control ever try solanaceaos(datura,brugmansia) don´t. i guees the ariocarpus in the north part have more good quimical make up . well everithing sinergece when you are ther and you have no weed i guees that was the number one reason people begging to smoke this cactus in the dessert , some even smoke lophophora imaging the waste then they decide to chage to the only other thing they could smoke of the desert they may have try , everything until decide to use ariocarpus, i tell you that the only reason people smoke it this is not a custume we learn from indias, indias don´t smoke notthing apart marihuana and tabacco, what the reason to smoke everything else since they already try it all, the peyote is for every body the other cactuces is secret knolegehe of shamans , still not well undestood , i have see preparation for runner and are extremely full of pharmacobiology of cactuces they use many mamailarias and some tuber in the wood where they not find peyote, many indias come to the desert just to collect it but they live in the mountains very far fron where peyote is so they somethimes run out of it, they use many plant instead even some orchis as oncidium cebolleta, all thi is still not undestood for sciencie.
now, the use of l. diffusa , until know there is no good report of the use of l. difussa the cult seem lost in time, and was change for the most better l williansii, but still l. difussa have few tales to tell, some claim is week , some is diferent, some is a letargic stade , some say is a dream, when you speak to the old gran peyote, you see even the scientific said that difussa is like a past or ancester of williansii , indeep a common ancestor , was the one that rule the dessert valley and then the poblations got separeted, , this is what happend to every specie the process of specialitation and speciation , begging and changes ocuurr in next generations, in mushrooms we se this more fast but imaging the peyote most of the sierra that sepárate this 2 places are the one in this trips , the poblation of difussa of queretaro is not well undestood even is a more smalll place that the poblation of willianssi and others that rules more up north,fricci etc. in fact all the other are consider variation of the williansii or sub species of williansi, all have the same alcaloid make up only difussa are with less mescaline and more peyotine and other pheniltilamine, but peyotine the main alcaloid , being peyotine a somiferum, is pretty well undestood the story of people saying you fall sleep and you trip in your dream , also peyotine was use for long time legally as a somniferum ,, but some other people claim that difussa is stronger or a diferent effect pretty strong more that williansi is more know locally as peyote de queretaro , so what i believe is that some platn have the main peyotine alcalods and some are not well undestood and have a diferent mix up of alcaloids, maybe be the misssing link betwen williansi and difussa, , so what i will do next time, it will take 3 month but be patience, maybe less , to probe this ,to recod this i have try very few difussa only 2 with some strange effect, so something is there, i was like in sort of stage of opiod , well this page will tell you and show you good ´pictures of ariocarpus in mexico http://server3.foros.net/viewtopic.php?p=1507&mforum=JardinMex
all my best ..
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  cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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Knoa6
Sunn 0)))



Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 1,237
Loc: USA-zone 7
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Re: DESTINATION UNKNOW .............................. [Re: cactu]
#7862397 - 01/10/08 10:50 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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 WOW those are awesome Ario pictures! and thanks for the Retusus clarification, I always enjoy your posts
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