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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
I am convinced, 50/50 buffered to 8 is the best. I admit defeat!
    #7833452 - 01/04/08 08:28 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

"Peat moss, although lacking in nutrition, is resplendent with mushroom stimulating bacteria and yeasts".
-Paul Stamets

That's all the reason anybody needs to use peat.


Edited by Captain Cubensis (01/05/08 05:10 PM)


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Offlinexhooliganx
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7833476 - 01/04/08 08:35 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

are you refering to 50/50+ (peat/verm ph adjusted)?


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7833502 - 01/04/08 08:42 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Yeah, why bother with the peat, it's one less ingredient to buy, and you don't have to adjust the pH, which means no lime, so it's two ingredients you could cut out.

I am sure there is a very important reason for the peat being there, I just can't seem to find anyone who knows.

Why not use wood mulch and verm?


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Offlinexhooliganx
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7833539 - 01/04/08 08:51 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

the peat works well in the casing layer because of it's specific lack of nutrients. it also gives a better texture to the casing layer than just straight verm and allowes an even colonization without much overlay problems.

the ph adjustment is actualy quite simple and you can use well known general ratio's. considering a large bag of peat and a decent size bag of lime could be had for less than 20$ and could be picked up at the same store that you're getting your verm from(well true in my case I don't know what other peoples scenarios are like) if you really wanted simplicity there seems to be good results from miracle grow moisture control. just open the bag add water and pasturize(i think blutjager doesn't even pasturize. or maybe tha's his coir that he doesn't bother with)

I opt for the 50/50+ because i've had best results with it and I don't like taking shortcuts


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7833628 - 01/04/08 09:11 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Still, for all that trouble you would think someone here knows what exactly the casing would lose if peat and lime, and oyster shell, and gypsum were eliminated by leaving out the peat and using no pH no nutrient verm?

In fact, t used to be a link to the original PF master himself Fanaticus suggesting leaving out the peat in casing altogether because there seemed to be no difference.

Unfortunately the site is down.


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Offlinelaten
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Registered: 11/08/07
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7833779 - 01/04/08 09:58 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

It is a non-nutritive layer that helps maintain moisture for the mycelium. Its like when you roll your cakes, except its fluffier and holds moisture better.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: laten]
    #7833888 - 01/04/08 10:33 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

laten said:
It is a non-nutritive layer that helps maintain moisture for the mycelium. Its like when you roll your cakes, except its fluffier and holds moisture better.




Peat is plant based, which means it's nutritive.


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OfflineBanjoMojo
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Registered: 09/29/07
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7834011 - 01/04/08 11:08 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Just because it's nutritive for something doesn't mean it's nutritive for mycelium.


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:firefox: If God is inside us like some people say, He'd better like burritos 'cause that's what he's getting. :firefox:

I ♥ :skittles:


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Offlinexhooliganx
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7834035 - 01/04/08 11:15 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

peat is not nutritious to mushroom mycelium. like I said it provides a better environment for colonization becase of texture and how airy it is. you need even colonization w/o overlay for an even pinset which will give you large even crops and more mushrooms. it also provides a great microclimate for the mushrooms to grow from allowing less than optimal humidity levels. crediting PF for saying it's good to leave peat out is near pointless. as far as I know he didn't pioneer much other than brf cakes. people in that era also thought that you could never grow mushrooms on coir and it was worthless as a substrate. basicly straight verm is pretty much the worst choice as a casing layer.


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Edited by xhooliganx (01/04/08 11:38 PM)


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7834128 - 01/04/08 11:51 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Like perlite, horticultural vermiculite is permanent, clean, odorless, nontoxic and sterile. It will not deteriorate, turn moldy or rot. The pH of vermiculite is essentially neutral (7.0-9.5) but owing to the presence of associated carbonate compounds, the reaction is normally alkaline. It also will vary (become more alkaline) with changes in processing techniques and time, and with the presence of moisture.

-Home Harvest Garden Supply


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7834362 - 01/05/08 01:48 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

I have never adjusted the pH of the 50/50 mix I use for cubes. Verm and peat, its as simple as that, and I don't have trich problems. I haven't done the side by side comparison of straight verm v. 50/50, so I can't say for myself what the comparison may be, but I doubt that a 1 to 1 comparison would give any definitive results, since there are so many variables at play.

From where I stand, the only PITA with peat is that its dusty and messy, at least my brand.


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Invisibleshaggydogman
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Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: simplemachine]
    #7834382 - 01/05/08 02:17 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

One advantage not mentioned yet is the ease of judging the water content of the casing.
Visually it's quite hard to tell how dry or wet verm is.
Peat based casings on the other hand are much much easier to judge.


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Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy
Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.


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Offlinexhooliganx
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7834424 - 01/05/08 03:02 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Like perlite, horticultural vermiculite is permanent, clean, odorless, nontoxic and sterile. It will not deteriorate, turn moldy or rot. The pH of vermiculite is essentially neutral (7.0-9.5) but owing to the presence of associated carbonate compounds, the reaction is normally alkaline. It also will vary (become more alkaline) with changes in processing techniques and time, and with the presence of moisture.

-Home Harvest Garden Supply



I'm not sure what relevence that has to our conversation, it seems like with all of the explained reasons why the 50/50 mix is better you still don't want to accept that it is better. I would recommend mgmc, jiffy mix, or plain potting soil over straight verm any day of the week if you don't want the "hastle" of something that's as easy as 50/50+.


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7834796 - 01/05/08 09:22 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Can anybody report on the difference between doing a dunk and roll into vermiculite vs. 50/50+ mix?

Other than messing up the perlite.


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: 04281969]
    #7834839 - 01/05/08 09:44 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

you would lose nothing except for possible fluff
i've been looking for the answer to this same question for quite awhile

remember; cubensis do not need to be cased.

the general reason i've found for using peat is that it keeps the casing from becoming too compact when spraying for rehydration

if you don't go verm happy, you won't have a problem with compaction

and am i not right to say that it would be strain/sub-strain/culture specific as to whether or not the mycelium performs better in a certain textured casing?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: anarchOi]
    #7834882 - 01/05/08 10:05 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Peat is plant based, which means it's nutritive.





Wrong. Flat out wrong.

You seriously need to read and study and not start a thread for every single question that pops into your head. The members can help answer what you don't understand AFTER study, but this isn't a place to learn everything.

Commercial growers use buffered peat and NO verm as casing. Their income depends on growing as many mushrooms as they can for the money they spend to grow them. Do you really think a multi-billion dollar industry is just throwing money away?

Read, search and study. ALL the questions you're starting these threads lately for are already answered in detail, and available by a simple search, which is faster than typing a question. Those who know these answers are sick and tired of typing the same stuff hundreds of times, over and over again, and aren't going to do it anymore. Those who don't know the answer will make something up just to take a wild guess, and the disinformation continues. . .
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7834922 - 01/05/08 10:21 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

i'm sorry that this is so frustrating for you RR
i'm not sure why you even do what you do to be honest, but we all appreciate it

so is the reason peat is better simply just that peat is better?
this gets more confusing all the time

RR
I'm not sure who you were addressing about the misinformation
but it seems to me alot like people are digging up misinformation as well as facts because they don't know how to work the search function to its fullest
and that's why it continues


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: anarchOi]
    #7834941 - 01/05/08 10:26 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Unfortunately, the search engine will return threads where noobs were stating 'what if?' as fact, so you'll find all sorts of wrong information. Perhaps the best way to use the 'search posts' feature is to pick a few members who you trust to deliver accurate information, and simply enter their name(s) into the search engine so you only get returns from them. Sad, but true.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7835193 - 01/05/08 11:43 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

xhooliganx said:basicly straight verm is pretty much the worst choice as a casing layer.




You've been told before in other threads by other users that this is not the case.

Straight verm has worked plenty well for me and many others. It's quite possible to get 100% cap coverage using only verm. It worked better for me than 50/50 over many trays.

RR has clued me into the fact that 50/50 works a lot better when pasteurized rather than sterilized. So if you are using sterilization rather than pasteurization straight verm is probably your best bet. With pasturization you may find that 50/50 works better, however they are both great casing materials and neither will limit you if your conditions are right.


-FF


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Offlinelaten
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Registered: 11/08/07
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Re: Hey Experts, what does 50% peat add except a pain in the butt? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7835200 - 01/05/08 11:45 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Figuring out the properties of materials used is always best done before going on a crusade about them.


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