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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7834968 - 01/05/08 10:34 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Does anyone know the official stats/tax brackets for other countries such as canada, britain, france?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7834978 - 01/05/08 10:36 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Admittedly, the insurance companies have done some shady things. When they do shady things they deserve to get sued. That doesn't mean we should have universal health care coverage though.




Like I said.. I'm for it, and I think those that are against it have a valid point...

but ALSO like I said... short of universal health care.. a good start would be a gov't regulation saying insurance companies COULDN'T DENY treatment if the doctor said it was neccessary. As a Libertarian, I'm not one for a lot of gov't regulations but some things you just need it.... you can do shady things when it comes to a lot of aspects of people's lives, but your HEALTH should be the last thing you allow people to play games with.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: BrAiN]
    #7835010 - 01/05/08 10:48 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

There was a big post about America vs. Canada when it comes to taxation in the political forum one time.  I think we were actually pretty even percentage-wise.  But, Canada has a very small military where we have a large one.  Also, Canada has a sparse medical system compared to ours...and us Americans are forced to pay for this top-notch expensive care for poor and old people because of the Medicaid and Medicare programs.

If America were to institute a universal health care system then we would have to significantly lower quality in order to cover everybody.  To put it bluntly we can't afford to spend tons of money on everybody for every ache and pain and end-of-life issue.  If we did we would go bankrupt.

I think we need to be honest about life and health.  If you don't take care of yourself you will be in bad health.  When you get old you die.  A significant amount of Medicare outlays go toward trying to keep old people alive in the last three months of their lives.  It is not uncommon to spend $100,000 or more on procedures in an attempt to eek out another month for some old people.  That's just stupid.  When I get that old and I am about to kick the bucket I'm not going to demand that the taxpayers shell out hundreds of thousands to keep me going for a short while longer.  I'll just go off somewhere and die.  :shrug:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7835015 - 01/05/08 10:52 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

For really hot issues like this.. it would be nice if a single state stepped up to the plate and offered itself as a guinea pig to see how "universal health" care would work.. at least on a state level.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #7835026 - 01/05/08 10:54 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Ewww gross, you want Huckabee to fuck you? you're gross man...


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: BrAiN]
    #7835036 - 01/05/08 10:57 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Not a bad idea. This issue is so complex and profound that a little experimentation might help in determining what the best setup is.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: Asante]
    #7835053 - 01/05/08 11:03 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

How fair is a system that you have no say in, but you still foot most the bill? My taxes are insane this year. I can't imagine what they'd be with universal healthcare.

Everything changes when you're the one paying for everything.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: Cowgold]
    #7835069 - 01/05/08 11:08 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Cowgold said:
  I can't imagine what they'd be with universal healthcare.






Probably the same if we took all the money we blow in Iraq and stick it in universal health care :wink:


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: BrAiN]
    #7835080 - 01/05/08 11:11 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

What we spend on the war is only a fraction of what health care costs. We shouldn't be paying for either.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: Asante]
    #7835090 - 01/05/08 11:14 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
The bible said nothing about Jesus so they wrote the New Testament.

The Constitution doesn't say a thing about building bridges and roads either, should we ask them to stop that?




The bible has nothing to do with the topic at hand. It's ok to make things up as you go along when you're telling fairy tales, but when you are dealing with the legal foundation of a country, there's not a lot of room for ad libbing.

The constitution has nothing to say about roads, but it does say that all powers not expressly granted to the federal government is granted to the states. That's why the states take responsibility for the majority of transportation.

If universal health care was adopted on a state-by-state basis, I would not have as much against it. This would allow me to move to a different state that does not have universal health care while giving those who want it the opportunity to have it.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: Redstorm]
    #7835107 - 01/05/08 11:18 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:

If universal health care was adopted on a state-by-state basis, I would not have as much against it. This would allow me to move to a different state that does not have universal health care while giving those who want it the opportunity to have it.




Would work best if the border states weren't allowed to have universal healthcare.

States rights +1


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: Redstorm]
    #7835111 - 01/05/08 11:19 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

They should change the regulations of becoming a dr. If you went to a 2 year school on how to become a dr, it would be much cheaper for universal health care. If you already have decent health care, or have money then you get to goto a good dr that went to medical school.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: Cowgold]
    #7835116 - 01/05/08 11:21 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

I think the state governments of all but California would not even consider such a policy. Most of the border states are dominated by Republicans or at least conservative independents.


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Offlinesupra
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: Cowgold]
    #7835142 - 01/05/08 11:28 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

The only thing your not taking into account on the cost is your health care insurance premiums. If universal health care was instated, you would drop your 170 dollar a month insurance payments...at least that is what it costs me to pay insurance for me, my wife, and one child...

I also had back surgery about 2 years ago, we just finished paying it off. My insurance company did cover 80% of the cost, but my 20% alone was over 6000 dollars...I have a feeling that if we had the increased tax for universal healthcare, that it would have been cheaper

170*24(for 2 years, how much I paid insurance while paying off my back surgery) = 4080 dollars

4080+6000 = $10,080

That sucks for someone like me that only lives in the middle - upper portion of the middle class. While im sure it is worse for other people, maybe my family and I will be able to go on vacation and spend some our disposable income how we please this year if no one else gets seriously injured or has to stay in the hospital for a couple days.

Im for universal health care, Canadians have a longer life expectation that do Americans, now that could be either because Americans live gluttonous lives or because of health care, there are too many variables to prove either way. I will also admit that I have not deeply investigated the subject, only slightly, but am well educated since I got good grades the govt, state and federal, helped foot the bill for my college education.

From the way I see it, it is another story of the middle class getting screwed. Poor people get government assistance for everything. Rich people can afford whatever they need. Middle of the road people have to work their ass off every day to get by. When my wife got pregnant and we had our child, we did not qualify for WIC (which helps you get cheaper food and baby supplies) since combined we made more than 24,000 a year, we made 25,156 dollars that year. It is very hard to supply all of us with rent for a 2 bedroom apartment, water, electricity, transportation to make the small amount we did, and food. We have worked hard and are no longer in the situation where we need assistance, and luckily nothing major happened medically or we would have been royally fucked, period.

Peace


Edited by supra (01/05/08 11:43 AM)


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: supra]
    #7835167 - 01/05/08 11:33 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

I've taken my health care into account.



P.S. I'm glad everything worked out for you.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: Cowgold]
    #7835207 - 01/05/08 11:48 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

It's easy for someone in their twenties to say 'Oh I don't need the government to take of me' but no matter how many vegetables you eat and how many meters you swim sooner or later your body will break down and ultimately die. The way it works now, the medical community has America by the balls when that process starts. You can die without the comforts of medicine or you can hand over whatever you got to the doctors. And if what you got is insufficient, they kick your ass to the motherfucking curb.

Yeah, I hate big government but what the fuck do yall think we have now? Now it's just set up so the doctors, the insurance companies and the politicians work in cahoots and steal and divide up everyone's fucking money. Fuck this shit! I'll take my chances with whatever happens with the free government provided system. How could it be any worse? I'm not going to be able to put together any kind of reasonable care for heart disease or cancer or whatever else is down the line and neither are any of yall. Other countries provide free health care for their citizens so why the fuck wouldn't I want America to do it?


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #7835268 - 01/05/08 12:06 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

The government isn't the only way to plan for growing old and the health problems that come with it. If you're not disabled you should have a plan for the worst. Going around like you'll live forever isn't a very good plan, especially if you think the government should make that happen.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #7835271 - 01/05/08 12:07 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Why don't we ask people in the shroomery here from the UK or Canada?

Anyone here live in a country where you have universal health care? How do you feel is the quality if your care? Would you rather have a system like America?


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: BrAiN]
    #7835276 - 01/05/08 12:08 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

If you're not disabled you should have a plan for the worst




Sooner or later we all become disabled.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Oh Fuck Me Mike Huckabee [Re: Asante]
    #7835286 - 01/05/08 12:10 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
The bible said nothing about Jesus so they wrote the New Testament.






the bible didnt exist until after jesus had been written about


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