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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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We are all perfect
    #7830732 - 01/04/08 04:50 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Don't let anyone bullshit you. Humans are perfect. You are the very mirror of perfection reflecting the magnificence of the universe without flaw. Look at this image:

This is what you are...star shine. If you feel that things need to change then accepting your perfection will bring about that change.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineManianFHS
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7830741 - 01/04/08 05:02 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

:heart::sun::heart:


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7831247 - 01/04/08 09:18 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Don't let anyone bullshit you. Humans are perfect. You are the very mirror of perfection reflecting the magnificence of the universe without flaw. Look at this image:

This is what you are...star shine. If you feel that things need to change then accepting your perfection will bring about that change.




You will have to define "perfect" a little better before you get my response. Your use of this word along with others such as magnificence and without flaw are suspect and seem a little anthropomorphic.


Edited by Icelander (01/04/08 09:20 AM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Icelander]
    #7831417 - 01/04/08 10:14 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Perfect = Exactly as it should be.

Quote:

Anthropomorphism is the attribution of uniquely human characteristics and qualities to nonhuman beings, inanimate objects, or natural or supernatural phenomena.




I don't think that I have done this at all. I am in fact saying that everything...including us is in a state of perfection relevant to the universe. To imply that things are wrong or flawed even when in their natural state is to refuse to accept what is. Only when ego is considered does judgment come into play. Without ego there is only perfection. That is the ultimate reality.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (01/04/08 10:27 AM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7831440 - 01/04/08 10:23 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Some of us just happen to be slightly more perfect than others. :sun:


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7831451 - 01/04/08 10:25 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Perfect = Exactly as it should be.






With that definition, I agree with you.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineNewbieS
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7831468 - 01/04/08 10:29 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

You got my vote too!  :wink:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7831519 - 01/04/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Don't let anyone bullshit you.




How could a fellow human being 'bullshit' another? That seems like imperfect behavior to this reader.


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OfflineNewbieS
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7831527 - 01/04/08 10:47 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

He said our design is perfect. What we do with our design will definitely not always be perfect. That's the beauty of free will!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7831564 - 01/04/08 11:00 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Perfect = Exactly as it should be.

Quote:

Anthropomorphism is the attribution of uniquely human characteristics and qualities to nonhuman beings, inanimate objects, or natural or supernatural phenomena.




I don't think that I have done this at all. I am in fact saying that everything...including us is in a state of perfection relevant to the universe. To imply that things are wrong or flawed even when in their natural state is to refuse to accept what is. Only when ego is considered does judgment come into play. Without ego there is only perfection. That is the ultimate reality.




While I agree at large. In the personal realm we are always fighting against something or trying to change something (to paraphrase DJ). This is also perfect though in it's imperfection. The yin and yang apply to humanity and maybe not the Universe yet they are the same.

as magnificence

What is magnificent? The Universe? Compared to what? This is what I am talking about. You can't really say the Universe is perfect or imperfect or magnificent or horrifying or meaningful or meaningless without subjectivity relating to it and putting your personal value on it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Icelander]
    #7832432 - 01/04/08 03:52 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

You can't really say the Universe is perfect or imperfect or magnificent or horrifying or meaningful or meaningless without subjectivity relating to it and putting your personal value on it.




Thats right. I am putting my personal value on it. Many people choose to live in a universe where mankind is sick and imperfect. I choose the opposite.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinekrin
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Icelander]
    #7832442 - 01/04/08 03:54 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

the delicate movement of a moment, in which a consciousness begins to subscribe to logistics...

the rational being, upright in it's processes of judgement and appraisal, majestic, free like a saharan beast in hunt, yet in its own predatory cycle, caught in an uproar of its memory and reaction to denounce or assign.
quantifying the most immeasurable beauties becomes absurd.
rationality has limits, and invaluble uses on same time point
^ ^ ^ ^
once again the chemistry of logic pervades, even in oddest contraption
its really a sort of "growth" which promotes its own secretion into the mental frameworking of real-time dimensional travel
accurate in its physical trajectories but sometimes drowning in its constantcy.
When to allow logic to recede and the spirit dissolve into beauty is a delicate intuitive act, and probably doesn't happen for many


--------------------



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7832588 - 01/04/08 04:31 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Thats right. I am putting my personal value on it.

Anthropomorphism


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7832591 - 01/04/08 04:32 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Many people choose to live in a universe where mankind is sick and imperfect. I choose the opposite.


Both are incorrect IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7832865 - 01/04/08 05:47 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Don't let anyone bullshit you. Humans are perfect.




I wouldn't say that....
....But I would say that, the experience of being human is as perfect as we could know otherwise....    :thumbup:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7832874 - 01/04/08 05:50 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Right. This is an important point. If we thought everything was perfect in a personal sense we wouldn't eat or act or change. But in a Universal sense, IMO, there are no mistakes as everything leads on forever.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Icelander]
    #7832929 - 01/04/08 06:11 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

"Anthropomorphism"

It is helpful to look up the meaning of big words before using them.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7832983 - 01/04/08 06:27 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Anthropomorphism is the attribution of uniquely human characteristics and qualities to nonhuman beings, inanimate objects, or natural or supernatural phenomena.


Here's the definition you provided.

To say the Universe is "magnificent" is using your human capacity to create an idea of beauty in nature. But nature is not beautiful or Magnificent. It just is. And to say it is magnificent is to give an attribute to nature that is purely human.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7833456 - 01/04/08 08:30 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

just right out there when you are feeling great!
nice!
don't let anyone "conclusion" you into a corner.
'course there is always that perfect bring down that some people are so good at.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblejustamonkey
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7834577 - 01/05/08 06:14 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Philosophy is kind of like hockey, a bunch of guys use words (sticks) to bat around a badly beaten puck (enlightenment) trying like hell to get it past the goalie (skeptics) into the goal (the common person, cheering crowd).

Unfortunately, no one has ever scored in philosophy, though there have been many close calls, generally only the puck knows whats going on.

We humans are great at making analogies, since thats the only way we can communicate. Wouldn't it be nice if we could just straight pipe experience to each other?


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[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda


Edited by justamonkey (01/05/08 06:16 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: justamonkey]
    #7835463 - 01/05/08 12:56 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

I kind of agree here. Philosophy seems more and more to me like the personalities and personal experiences (nurture) of the proponents of this or that idea. Whoever is most like that person in temperament and experience will resonate with that philosophy whether true (truth being the whole picture) or not.

One good reason I talk about the middle path or a path that tries to embrace the whole of it in one degree or another. It's difficult but not impossible. What is required is an open mind.:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Icelander]
    #7835675 - 01/05/08 01:41 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

open mind grips but does not conclude


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7835715 - 01/05/08 01:53 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

yeah somethin like that


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Icelander]
    #7835729 - 01/05/08 01:59 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

is it even possible to conclude? i think thats quite DELUSIONARY


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7835733 - 01/05/08 02:00 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

if you conclude.. that is quite a layered mind state, is it not, redgreenvines?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7835744 - 01/05/08 02:03 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

maybe it is an effort to stop any more addings of layers or fadings of what has accrued in the stream.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7835764 - 01/05/08 02:07 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

your post begets me to make a conclusive reply, it makes me feel ill


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Offlineenvision227
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7835816 - 01/05/08 02:20 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

this is a great thread. thanks for that!

now i'm thinking... it may be that once the power of communication and relationship about the ultimate is thrown into question, and once the metaphors we use to understand the infinite are thrown out, the what's lighting our path loses its luster and we lose vision, and we go into despair. but the psilocybes can work their way through these questions, restructure the metaphors, and fuel that which lights our path. once we recognize the truth that is, we can change the world.

human beings, and all things, are the perfect image of creativity in its infinite procession. I think that's pretty exciting :smile:


--------------------
"i choose to live and to grow
take and give and to move
learn and love and to cry
kill and die and to be
paranoid and to lie
hate and fear and to do
what it takes to move through"
- Tool: forty-six and 2


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Re: We are all perfect [Re: envision227]
    #7836703 - 01/05/08 06:04 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

I do not think we can ever conclude, because there really are no definite answers, every answer that we have every thought to be the answer has gotten us in to trouble and later has been proven to be inconclusive. Change is imminent and therefore there will never be a conclusive answer or a right or wrong.

However, we seem to need some kind of conclusion, some answer, an end. We cannot grasp infinity and cannot always hold a completely open mind. We are raised with concepts if finite natures with beginnings and ends. We know what we like and don't like because we made up our minds about it. I am seeing as I read some of these posts how my mind reacts to them now compared to a few years ago. I tend to skip certain material that disagrees with things that I have concluded on (so to speak)...which is not very open.

...to be continued.

Peace.

i.t.


--------------------
A man that comes to the door is never quite the same man who went out.

Freedom is something that dies unless it's used


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Offlineenvision227
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: newmodel]
    #7836752 - 01/05/08 06:15 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

this is true. change is a pretty powerful being.

...an answer is nothing but a "call back", it is not an end. so as long as we keep questioning, a word referring to the "active quest", we will receive calls back, and we can embrace the change.

you're the man.


--------------------
"i choose to live and to grow
take and give and to move
learn and love and to cry
kill and die and to be
paranoid and to lie
hate and fear and to do
what it takes to move through"
- Tool: forty-six and 2


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: newmodel]
    #7836811 - 01/05/08 06:34 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

However, we seem to need some kind of conclusion, some answer, an end.




Conclusions are for sissies.  :wink:  Whatever I may think about reality, I always tack on the qualifier "for now" or "as of today," because I have seen the shifts and changes in my internal representation of reality over the past four decades. 

I strive to become more accurate in my representation, but do not delude myself with the notion that I can ever fully recreate reality in all its' dimensions and colors.  Our inner portraits of Reality are Impressionistic at best, Abstract at worst.  :lol:


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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Veritas]
    #7836942 - 01/05/08 07:11 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Exactly, I do too. I'm saying that I am starting to see and understand how and why people settle on conclusions and limit their vision. Not to say that's the right answer.

Trust those who seek truth. Doubt those who find it.

Peace,

i.t.


--------------------
A man that comes to the door is never quite the same man who went out.

Freedom is something that dies unless it's used


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Re: We are all perfect [Re: newmodel]
    #7838563 - 01/06/08 09:39 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

My life, is exactly as it should be at this moment....I'm learning what I need to learn by having the life I have right now. We're all perfect. How could we be anything else, if our lives are exactly as they should be?


--------------------
“We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me.”

Jack Handy


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Veritas]
    #7838653 - 01/06/08 10:07 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Conclusions are for sissies.




But OrgoneConclusions are for mature women. :wink:


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Invisiblejustamonkey
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7842226 - 01/07/08 02:57 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Its kind of like a 240 watt electric fence, don't touch it as if you're going to hang on, or you may never let go, not even in death.


--------------------
[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are all perfect [Re: Veritas]
    #7842753 - 01/07/08 09:19 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

However, we seem to need some kind of conclusion, some answer, an end.




Conclusions are for sissies.  :wink:  Whatever I may think about reality, I always tack on the qualifier "for now" or "as of today," because I have seen the shifts and changes in my internal representation of reality over the past four decades. 

I strive to become more accurate in my representation, but do not delude myself with the notion that I can ever fully recreate reality in all its' dimensions and colors.  Our inner portraits of Reality are Impressionistic at best, Abstract at worst.  :lol:




:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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* My slowly forming theory on God and perfection Tyrone_C 1,169 12 12/27/05 12:27 AM
by Disco Cat
* anything man-made is flawed because it tries to be perfect
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Adamist 3,079 22 07/03/03 08:06 PM
by David_Scape

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