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Offlinecoberst
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Registered: 12/30/07
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“The disease called man”--Nietzsche
    #7830705 - 01/04/08 04:24 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

“The disease called man”--Nietzsche

Aristotle said that all men seek happiness. Freud said that the goal of the pleasure-principle is happiness. Man’s desire for happiness sets at odds to the reality-principle. It is the reality-principle that propels the world into tomorrow. Humans naturally seek what they wish but “reality imposes on human beings the necessity of renunciation of pleasures”.

Therein lay the rub and the rub is called repression.

Freud says that the whole edifice of psychoanalysis is constructed on the theory of repression—the essence of society is the repression of the individual--the essence of the individual is repression of him or her self—Freud’s theory is that the phenomena dreams, neurotic symptoms, and errors are caused—i.e. the principle of psychic determinism—they are meaningful because this means there is purpose or intention—“since the purport of these purposive expressions is generally unknown to the person whose purpose they express, Freud is driven to embrace the paradox that there are in a human being purposes of which he knows nothing, involuntary purpose”—i.e. unconscious ideas.

Neurosis is “the disease called man” Nietzsche. “Neurosis is an essential consequence of civilization or culture.” Brown

“Between “normality” and “abnormality” there is no qualitative but only a quantitative difference, based largely on the practical question of whether our neurosis is serious enough to incapacitate us for work.” The difference between “neurotic and healthy is only that the healthy have a socially useful form of neurosis.”

Freud defined psychoanalysis as “nothing more than discovery of the unconscious in mental life”—the other hypothesis is that “some unconscious ideas in a human being are incapable of becoming conscious to him in the ordinary way, because they are strenuously disowned and resisted by the conscious life”.

Norman Brown tells us that to comprehend Freud one must understand “repression”. “In the new Freudian perspective, the essence of society is repression of the individual, the essence of the individual is repression of the self.”

Freud discovered the importance of repression when he discovered the meaning of the “mad” symptoms of the mentally deranged, plus the meaning of dreams, and thirdly the everyday happenings regarded as slips of the tongue, errors, and random thoughts. He concludes that dreams, mental derangements, and common every day errors (Freudian slips) have meaningful causes that can be explained. Meaningful is the key word here.

Since these psychic phenomena are unconscious we must accept that we have motivation to action with a purpose for which we are unconscious (involuntary purposes). This inner nature of which we are completely unaware leads to Freud’s definition of psychoanalysis as “nothing more than the discovery of the unconscious in mental life.”

Freud discovered that sapiens have unconscious causes which are hidden from her because they are disowned and hidden by the conscious self. The dynamic relationship between the unconscious and conscious life is a constant battle and psychoanalysis is a science of this mental conflict.

The rejection of an idea which is one’s very own and remains so is repression. The essence of repression is in the fact that the individual refuses to recognize this reality of her very own nature. This nature becomes evident when it erupts into consciousness only in dreams or neurotic symptoms or by slips of the tongue.

The unconscious is illuminated only when it is being repressed by the conscious mind. It is a process of psychic conflict. “We obtain our theory of the unconscious from the theory of repression.” Freud’s hypothesis of the repressed unconscious results from the conclusion that it is common to all humans. This is a phenomenon of everyday life; neurosis is common to all humans.

Dreams are normal phenomena and being that the structure of dreams is common to neurotics and normal people the dream is also neurotic. “Between “normality” and “abnormality” there is no qualitative but only quantitative difference, based largely on the practical question of whether our neurosis is serious enough to incapacitate us for work…the doctrine of the universal neurosis of mankind is the psychoanalytical analogue of the theological doctrine of original sin.”

Quotes from “Life against Death: The Psychoanalytical Meaning of History” Norman O. Brown

If you do not perceive your self to be a cauldron of conflict does that mean that the science of psychology is just a bunch of baloney?

If you look and cannot see it does that mean it does not exist?

Must we prepare our self in order to see?


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: “The disease called man”--Nietzsche [Re: coberst]
    #7830786 - 01/04/08 05:37 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

He makes a good point. If there is no clear externality we are willing ourselves towards, then we cannot define ourselves this way. But I think this idea has a specific social context. To take this on a personal level doesnt make any sense.

To be insane presupposes that there are sane people out there, right? From my understanding, Neitchze did not want us all to admit we are insane, he wanted us to abolish this notion of a definitive mind.


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Offlinerubixcubies
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Re: “The disease called man”--Nietzsche [Re: daytripper23]
    #7830900 - 01/04/08 07:17 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

there is no definitive mind. theres not even definitive words. we should abolish the notion of definite.


--------------------
i'm a very evolved ape you know.


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Offlinecoberst
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Re: “The disease called man”--Nietzsche [Re: daytripper23]
    #7830969 - 01/04/08 07:51 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
He makes a good point. If there is no clear externality we are willing ourselves towards, then we cannot define ourselves this way. But I think this idea has a specific social context. To take this on a personal level doesnt make any sense.

To be insane presupposes that there are sane people out there, right? From my understanding, Neitchze did not want us all to admit we are insane, he wanted us to abolish this notion of a definitive mind.




My reading of several books about psychology and psychoanalysis tells me that we are all neurotic and some of us are so neurotic that we cannot function satisfactorily in normal society and are then considered to be mentally ill.


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: “The disease called man”--Nietzsche [Re: coberst]
    #7831020 - 01/04/08 08:06 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Well then what exactly is this concept of neurosis?

Is it repression?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: “The disease called man”--Nietzsche [Re: coberst]
    #7831239 - 01/04/08 09:13 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

I agree with all of your post. We are doomed to this cultural fate IMO. The thing then is to make the best of it. REBT is a good tool as is the basic psychology of the Buddha along with The Warriors Way from Castaneda and others.

Fortunately IMO we are made of space dust and our sojourn here is short. I recommend enlightened hedonism in the mean time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecoberst
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 23
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: “The disease called man”--Nietzsche [Re: daytripper23]
    #7832155 - 01/04/08 02:28 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Well then what exactly is this concept of neurosis?

Is it repression?




All humans repress aspects of their life that might cause anxiety. This repression is called neurosis. It is the constant conflict wherein the ego constantly struggles to hold down thoughts that will cause anxiety. Freud discovered the unconscious in life and there exists a constant conflict between the unconscious and the ego. The ego keeps that in the unconscious that can cause anxiety from becoming conscious.

Humans are the only species to be self conscious. We dread death and repress that dread because we cannot live with a constant consciousness of our mortality.

How can we, the “man on the street”, Tom & Jane, gain an insight into the meaning of this dread of death? A dread so strong that we kill to prevent that death and that we are so dedicated to repressing that dread that many things we do is done in that behalf.

I suspect most of us have experienced the feeling we call ‘claustrophobia’. I have experienced that feeling and I am confident that I would do almost anything to stop that experience. I suspect that it was the dread of death that caused the inmates of the Nazi concentration camps to tolerate such terror as daily existence must have been for those imprisoned in those camps.

I suspect that dread of death is the reason that ‘water-boarding’ is such a popular form of torture. Torture is, I suspect, an effort to induce that same dread that we experience in a claustrophobic episode. I think that we might properly use the metaphor ‘dread of death is claustrophobia’ or perhaps ‘dread of death is water-boarding’.

Death is an abstract idea. It is an idea that grows and develops throughout our life. I am told that a child has no comprehension of death until the age of four or five.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: “The disease called man”--Nietzsche [Re: coberst]
    #7832329 - 01/04/08 03:25 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

All humans repress aspects of their life that might cause anxiety. This repression is called neurosis. It is the constant conflict wherein the ego constantly struggles to hold down thoughts that will cause anxiety. Freud discovered the unconscious in life and there exists a constant conflict between the unconscious and the ego. The ego keeps that in the unconscious that can cause anxiety from becoming conscious.

Humans are the only species to be self conscious. We dread death and repress that dread because we cannot live with a constant consciousness of our mortality.

How can we, the “man on the street”, Tom & Jane, gain an insight into the meaning of this dread of death? A dread so strong that we kill to prevent that death and that we are so dedicated to repressing that dread that many things we do is done in that behalf.


Yes yes yes, :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Among the many things (legion IMO), religion, politics, country, work, society, philosophy and spirituality and what some call love.

Welcome to this forum coberst. I hope you stick around.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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