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whereismymind
they keepcoming!



Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
Loc: in the middle of nowhere
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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possibly stalled pf spawned to coir(update: %60 colonized , pins!! )
#7830666 - 01/04/08 03:37 AM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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Hey , i had 2 pf tek cakes which were crumbled in a 1:1 ratio to coir 8 days ago , after the spawn 2 or 3 days later they became like they are in the photos , but then i didn't notice any growth , i may have prepared the coir on the dry side but im not sure , i didn't open the substrate till now so here are the photos what could have happened , i guess they should have already colonized in 8 days considering the 1 : 1 ratio if they are dry would injecting some sterile water help it .
Peace
 

-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
Edited by whereismymind (01/18/08 10:39 PM)
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7830691 - 01/04/08 04:04 AM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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They look plenty wet. The myc doesn't look very healthy though. Could be the camera though, hard to tell.
I have no experience with intermediate PF-bulk style grows though. I suggest perfecting your PF technique and then going bulk with rye.
Ahh... I see what you did. You need to crumble the cakes into more substrate to use them as spawn. What you've done is mix casing into the substrate. Casing goes on top of the substrate, not into it.
-FF
Edited by fastfred (01/04/08 04:14 AM)
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whereismymind
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Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
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Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: fastfred]
#7830708 - 01/04/08 04:29 AM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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coir is not a casing for long time , there are a lot of teks on spawning to coir , what i have done was simply following a coir tek , and spawn my pf cakes to same amount of coir . peace
-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
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shaggydogman
Stranger


Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7830735 - 01/04/08 04:52 AM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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I use pretty much the same method except I use hpoo at about 4:1 ratio. (1/2 pint cake + 2 pints Hpoo).
Do you have holes in the lids for gas exchange? On a 1.5l (3 pint) tub I have 6x 1/4" holes in the lid covered in micropore tape.
-------------------- Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.
Edited by shaggydogman (01/04/08 05:00 AM)
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shaggydogman
Stranger


Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: shaggydogman]
#7830763 - 01/04/08 05:20 AM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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This is a Cambodian clone 1/2 pint(ish) cake spawned to 2 pints of Hpoo 5 days ago. I have a small amount of condensation on the sides and 6 gas exchange holes in the lid.
-------------------- Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7830782 - 01/04/08 05:30 AM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
whereismymind said: coir is not a casing for long time , there are a lot of teks on spawning to coir , what i have done was simply following a coir tek , and spawn my pf cakes to same amount of coir . peace
Coir is more suitable as a casing than substrate. It doesn't make a lot of sense to spawn to low nutrient (and more expensive) materials, and I would guess that is what is causing your problems.
I would suggest a more traditional and time-proven method of spawning to nutrient-rich substrate and casing with low-nutrient material.
-FF
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whereismymind
they keepcoming!



Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
Loc: in the middle of nowhere
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: shaggydogman]
#7830843 - 01/04/08 06:35 AM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
shaggydogman said: This is a Cambodian clone 1/2 pint(ish) cake spawned to 2 pints of Hpoo 5 days ago. I have a small amount of condensation on the sides and 6 gas exchange holes in the lid.
hmm thanks for giving your link and your opinion , i have 5 1/8" holes on my cover , i wouldn't make it a problem if the ratio wasn't 1:1 and it wasn't 8 days , but it is and i didn't open to check it to ruin (since also container is see through) so now trying to figure out what to do :/ peace
-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
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shaggydogman
Stranger


Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7831090 - 01/04/08 08:28 AM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
whereismymind said:
Quote:
shaggydogman said: This is a Cambodian clone 1/2 pint(ish) cake spawned to 2 pints of Hpoo 5 days ago. I have a small amount of condensation on the sides and 6 gas exchange holes in the lid.
hmm thanks for giving your link and your opinion , i have 5 1/8" holes on my cover , i wouldn't make it a problem if the ratio wasn't 1:1 and it wasn't 8 days , but it is and i didn't open to check it to ruin (since also container is see through) so now trying to figure out what to do :/ peace
Your welcome.
Some possible causes of slow or stalled colonisation (in no particular order) are: - Not enough gas exchange - Too low or high temps - Incorrect moisuture - Contams in the areas the sub thats not colonising.
I started with the gas exchange because I couldn't see the lid. 5x1/8" holes doen't seem like a lot of gas exchange to me, but I'm not sure, so it might still be that.
The amount of conensation on the tub makes me think you are incubating it, what temp is it at?
-------------------- Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: fastfred]
#7832400 - 01/04/08 03:43 PM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Quote:
whereismymind said: coir is not a casing for long time , there are a lot of teks on spawning to coir , what i have done was simply following a coir tek , and spawn my pf cakes to same amount of coir . peace
Coir is more suitable as a casing than substrate. It doesn't make a lot of sense to spawn to low nutrient (and more expensive) materials, and I would guess that is what is causing your problems.
I would suggest a more traditional and time-proven method of spawning to nutrient-rich substrate and casing with low-nutrient material.
-FF
Coir has been proven to be quite nutrient rich, especially if enhanced with used coffee grounds.
I remember when a few years ago coir was used exclusively as a casing meterial (60/40 mix was popular) but RR and a few others started to prove that in fact coir is more effective as a bulk substrate, which in part explains why casings with a heavy content in coir would tend to overlay.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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Seventy
equanimitor



Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 912
Loc: Canada (PNW)
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: Nibin]
#7832413 - 01/04/08 03:47 PM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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coir is definitely making a comeback as a bulk sub rather than a casing material now
RR backs it up as well, and I'm on his side
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: Seventy]
#7833257 - 01/04/08 07:33 PM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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Thanks for the update. I had no idea. (+5 for helping me stay current BTW)
Coir is full of cellulose, but I wouldn't call it nutrient-rich. In fact, several coir sellers state that their product "contains no nutrients".
I've never done any sort of cost analysis, but when I checked several years ago it seemed that it was much more expensive than comparable alternatives (peat/verm). So I never really understood why people would use it.
Perhaps the price has come down?
-FF
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: fastfred]
#7834534 - 01/05/08 05:34 AM (16 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: Thanks for the update. I had no idea. (+5 for helping me stay current BTW)
Coir is full of cellulose, but I wouldn't call it nutrient-rich. In fact, several coir sellers state that their product "contains no nutrients".
I've never done any sort of cost analysis, but when I checked several years ago it seemed that it was much more expensive than comparable alternatives (peat/verm). So I never really understood why people would use it.
Perhaps the price has come down?
-FF
Coir has no nutrients for plants (it's intended use) but cubes, as a fungus, digest their food. Straw is also full of celulose and cubes and other fungi love it.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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whereismymind
they keepcoming!



Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
Loc: in the middle of nowhere
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: Nibin]
#7865758 - 01/11/08 04:24 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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checking today how the coir spawns were doing i realized something i havent seen before hyphal knots all around !! and still there is no sign of contaminates , and the substrate is not even fully colonized , so i opened them and put them in mini tubs to see what will happen if they fruit or not by the way they were smelling all the way mushies but nothing else , i dont know why this happened this is the first time spawning to coir , maybe the shrooms didnt like the type of coir i used =/ , any comments are welcome . Peace .
-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
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whereismymind
they keepcoming!



Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
Loc: in the middle of nowhere
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7866808 - 01/11/08 09:03 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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hmmm anyone who has an idea or an experience like this ?? im going to find it out anyway , but still comments are welcome =)
-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
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whereismymind
they keepcoming!



Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
Loc: in the middle of nowhere
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7890726 - 01/16/08 10:16 PM (16 years, 16 days ago) |
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well today saw the first tiny primordia on my stalled coir i hope it gives me one flush without contaminates right now it is also uncased =)
well the casings are nearly no different then how they seem at the top of the threas and if they dont contaminate they ll give me a flush so i guess i am happy =)
-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
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whereismymind
they keepcoming!



Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
Loc: in the middle of nowhere
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7899646 - 01/18/08 10:54 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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well today ive seen some pins all of them are on the sides even though there was hundreds of hyphal knots on the surface , it is still uncased ( i guess i wont case it till the end of first flush), anyway the shroomies didnt like the type of coir that i used or something else here is the photo :
 by the way there are no sign of contaminates or odor . I'm happy that i didn't throw them of maybe i ll get 1 or 2 flushes from them
-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
Edited by whereismymind (01/18/08 10:55 PM)
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7899764 - 01/18/08 11:18 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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coir is very full of nutes, minus a lil bit o nitrogen.. thats why cats mix 80/20% coir to coffee (or the additive of your choice) for a substrate... the only reason cats add anything but stuff like that to coir is because they are trying to raise the ph, which, if not anticipated, can lead to a contamination red alert.. you can actually hydrate the coir, while raising the ph, and spawn directly to it.. as long as you colonize the coir fast enough, you have no contams to worry about, unless your sterile tek is wack... Ive been reading alot about coir lately and am about to try a bulk grow on this substrate... just do a few searches and look at the flushes they can make when given the right pinning conditions, and subsequent fruiting conditions... absolutely amazing...
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FooMan




Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7899832 - 01/18/08 11:36 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: coir is very full of nutes, minus a lil bit o nitrogen.. thats why cats mix 80/20% coir to coffee (or the additive of your choice) for a substrate... the only reason cats add anything but stuff like that to coir is because they are trying to raise the ph, which, if not anticipated, can lead to a contamination red alert.. you can actually hydrate the coir, while raising the ph, and spawn directly to it.. as long as you colonize the coir fast enough, you have no contams to worry about, unless your sterile tek is wack...

WTF did you just say?
--------------------
Quick WBS Prep
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: FooMan]
#7899838 - 01/18/08 11:40 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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you quoted it.. why are you asking me? thats what I have read.. cats are using it as a bulk substrate, and it seems to be working very well... whats wrong?
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whereismymind
they keepcoming!



Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7899869 - 01/18/08 11:51 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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well you are right somehow but your comment has got nothing to do with the update or not fully colonized coir pinning , you are replying to 5 posts or so before which is off topic . Peace
-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7899884 - 01/18/08 11:56 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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OFF TOPIC?!?!
yeah.. my bad
sooooo.. just curious.. why no casing? even a 50/50 is shown to improve el flusho....
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galadar


Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 981
Loc: in a monotub!
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7899897 - 01/19/08 12:00 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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i believe in coir. shit is sexy, fluffy, hold moisture very well and colonizes quickley. and provides some nice fruit when buffered with coffee and calcium carbonate.
-a tip for coir users. hydrate to field capacity, then wait like 30 minutes and hydrate a little more. because coir REALLY absorbs moisture(which is good) and you might end up with a dryer substrate after pasteurization.
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whereismymind
they keepcoming!



Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7899921 - 01/19/08 12:11 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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well no need to get mad =)) off topic cause i dont want to talk about coirs nutrition values if i didnt believe in it i wouldnt use it =)
about the casing , since it is not fully colonized i wanted to watch the surface and i dont have peat moss , i can only order it which will arrive in 5 days ive got coir and verm , but since i dont trust in the casing itself didnt want to add - verm coir casing even if the coir was diluted . peace
-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: whereismymind]
#7899946 - 01/19/08 12:23 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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haha.. I was just kidding.. coir and vermiculite works just as good, but you have to fight overlay with it, as it colonizes quickly... since your strain seems not to be colonizing that quick, a ph buffered 50/50 of coir and vermiculite would work fine.. just dont incubate it as long as you would a less nutritious casing... like peat or straight vermiculite..
just sterilize your casing layer, and you will have a barrier against contamination if you use the 50/50+ tek... the key is to ph your casing... contamination thrives in acidic mediums...
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whereismymind
they keepcoming!



Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 365
Loc: in the middle of nowhere
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Re: possibly stalled pf spawned to coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7912658 - 01/21/08 10:30 PM (16 years, 11 days ago) |
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more photos from the stalled coir :

 Peace =)
-------------------- In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...
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