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Offlinedarklucidity
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Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer?
    #7827545 - 01/03/08 01:45 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

This link describes an experiment to ferment beer using edible mushroom mycelium. I was wondering, how possible would it be for other organisms to contaminate such a brew, since from my experience, mycelium isn't as resistant to contamination as yeast is. Can this be done without PCing a whole batch of wort? Would genetics actually begin to play a role in this whole thing of creating a stronger mycelium?

I really don't know where to place this, since the cooking forum wouldn't be able to answer the question as well as this one.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: darklucidity]
    #7827737 - 01/03/08 02:36 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Interesting. There's a micro-brewery in the Pacific Northwest, USA that makes a Chanterelle beer every fall. I've tried it a few times, but it's nasty in my opinion. I'm not sure how they brew it though.

I like the idea of an anti-cancer beer. . ."Honey, go get me another six-pack of medicine".
RR


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7828529 - 01/03/08 05:54 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

well first i would suggest straining out the mushroom after fermentation.

second i think its mostly the alcohol and co2 that makes beer/wine resistant to contam

thirdly i would guess more research needs to be done on this, flavoring with mushrooms is one thing but to actually ferment a wine with them does seem like it would be tough.

however i do see one unique thing about using mushrooms, they prob have a more vast menu for food than yeast. yeast is mostly sugar, wear as mushrooms might eat fruit skins ect.

the real question in my mind is can mushrooms produce alcohol from just sugar?

every LC ive ever made i would be very scared to drink, bacteria seems to like them very much


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (01/03/08 05:55 PM)


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Offlinedarklucidity
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7828579 - 01/03/08 06:07 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Well the article states that they do produce alcohol from fermentation.
Thing is, LCs don't have bacteria if it's just the culture in it. I wonder if one can blend yeast and mycelium to ferment beer. Oh well.
Autoclave a gallon of wort and test run, heh.


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Offlinerungi
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: darklucidity]
    #7898664 - 01/18/08 06:40 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

That would be an extremely interesting experiment.
Belgian beers are unique in flavor because of yeast stains and lactic acid producing bacteria. kombucha is similar. It would be interesting to see if a liquid culture grows on top of the beer and how long before it drops to the bottom. I cant imagine what that would taste like.


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Offlinerungi
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: rungi]
    #7898695 - 01/18/08 06:53 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

PS I wouldn't autoclave the wort. Boil the wort normally when the wort temperature cools to 75 degrees F. I would suggest you pitch the oysters cells grown out in liquid culture instead of yeast cells.
(You will need to start a liquid culture in advance)


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Offlinerungi
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: rungi]
    #7898752 - 01/18/08 07:09 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

"12 PERCENT ETHANOL " HOLY SHIT. I wonder if P. cubensis has any ADH. I know it has some ADD.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: rungi]
    #7898825 - 01/18/08 07:28 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Wort is a selective substrate according to Charlie Papazain's book. It says nothing can grow in wort that will harm you.

Might taste bad though.


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: darklucidity]
    #7898939 - 01/18/08 07:57 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Actually it is the alpha-acids which are the bittering principle in the hops which gives the beer most of it's contamination resistance. You could do some sort of stout which calls for a shit ton of bittering hops. According to The Complete Joy of Homebrewing vol 3, no pathogens are known to be viable in beer. A Belgan Lambic is acually an open top fermentation which encourages the growth of wild microbes. Not every places wild organisms are desireable, but probably won't kill you as far as is known. Hope that helps.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7898951 - 01/18/08 08:01 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

I imagine charlie meant selective in that yeast has a big advantage in the wort

I find it very hard to believe you can't find something that will grow in wort that will harm you...but maybe he's right?

wort is pretty similar to an LC


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #7898990 - 01/18/08 08:12 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

oh you posted while i was typing, I forgot about the hops that does help preserve beer

but ive seen what looked and smelled to be bacteria in an LC and that stuff can make you sick, so i dunno if hops would make much difference or not

One big difference is yeast eats fast and produces alcohol fast,combined with hops, its easy to see why not much would grow in beer

the biggest problem is how long it will take for the mushroom to ferment it, lc's take alot longer to grow than say beer/yeast

beer is done in about 1-2 weeks

here's a quote i just googled

"Spoiled beer can do no more harm than give someone an upset stomach. Because of beer’s acidity and alcohol content, there are no know pathogens"


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7899365 - 01/18/08 09:36 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

You can do a "Wild Ale" in almost any part of the world if you add malic acid to the wort. I did some wiki-ing, and I found out Oenococcus oeni is responsible. It is widely cultured and added to California wines.


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Offlinerungi
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7899978 - 01/19/08 12:37 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Was anyone able to read the article? Do the authors drink the beer? It seems Belgian yeast also produce something else I don't know what, but the intoxication feels different and the beer taste very different. Does anyone have access to the paper?


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Pleurotus ostreatus to ferment beer? [Re: rungi]
    #7904066 - 01/19/08 11:37 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

I wonder if there is a variety of yeast that you could add in at some ratio and it behave similarly to that found in kombucha. Which is a symbiotic relationship of 4 organisms. That is an example of bacteria that isn't going to make you sick obviously. Also yougart and kefir contain others. Kefir actually has 10 different active bacteriums. I drink that shit every day. I know that doesn't mean that all instances are a good thing, just that not all are bad either.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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