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OfflineCosmicFool
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Researchers work on cocaine vaccine
    #7827453 - 01/03/08 03:21 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cocaine_vaccine;_ylt=AuzGlCGgjV5JQ3b0KYzWSmrq188F

HOUSTON - Two Baylor College of Medicine researchers in Houston are working on a cocaine vaccine they hope will become the first-ever medication to treat people hooked on the drug. "For people who have a desire to stop using, the vaccine should be very useful," said Dr. Tom Kosten, a psychiatry professor who is being assisted in the research by his wife, Therese, a psychologist and neuroscientist. "At some point, most users will give in to temptation and relapse, but those for whom the vaccine is effective won't get high and will lose interest."

The vaccine, currently in clinical trials, stimulates the immune system to attack the real thing when it's taken.

The immune system — unable to recognize cocaine and other drug molecules because they are so small — can't make antibodies to attack them.

To help the immune system distinguish the drug, Kosten attached inactivated cocaine to the outside of inactivated cholera proteins.

In response, the immune system not only makes antibodies to the combination, which is harmless, but also recognizes the potent naked drug when it's ingested. The antibodies bind to the cocaine and prevent it from reaching the brain, where it normally would generate the highs that are so addictive.

"It's a very clever idea," says David Eagleman, a Baylor neuroscientist. "Scientists have spent the last few decades figuring out reward pathways in the brain and how drugs like cocaine hijack the system. It turns out those pathways are difficult to rewire once they've seen the drug. But the vaccine just circumvents all that."

Kosten asked the Food and Drug Administration in December to green-light a multi-institutional trial to begin in the spring and is awaiting a response.

Approval would mark a breakthrough in the treatment of cocaine addiction, which now mostly involves psychiatric counseling and 12-step programs. It presumably would be the final clinical hurdle before the vaccine — more than a decade in the making — might be approved for treatment. But one expert warns against expecting too much.

"Addiction vaccines are a promising advance, but it's unlikely any treatment in this field will work for everyone," said Dr. David Gorelick, a senior investigator at the National Institute on Drug Abuse. "Still, if they prove successful, they will give those working in drug addiction an important option."


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Invisiblesmokedout420
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: CosmicFool]
    #7827488 - 01/03/08 03:30 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

about time they do something about this. there is alot of people hooked.


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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: CosmicFool]
    #7827572 - 01/03/08 03:51 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

i wonder if it would ever hinder other drugs that are needed for like surgery or whatever... maybe drugs similar to coke?


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: CosmicFool]
    #7827597 - 01/03/08 03:59 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

No way an immune system response will beat the first puff of crack smoke  or injected cocaine from reaching your brain first. I don't believe it will work as well as they say it does.

What prevents a cocaine addict from graduating to the needle and :syringe: a dose large enough to overwhelm the immune system response? And if they do... they are drug users who perform street injections while having an overwhelmed immune system. That will kill people. Immune system respnses vary in strength. That means that the amount of cocaine, the overdose of cocaine, a vaccined user has to inject to feel what he so craves for, varies too. And that means killing. A lot of people will die because of this.

Quote:

It turns out those pathways are difficult to rewire once they've seen the drug.




Continued craving but no chance of relief, unless you resort to injecting OD's which at any time may ACT as OD's. That's a fucking cure alright. Serves the DEA notion that druggies should be punished for their sins.

They don't design a drug to quench the desire.. noooo we're not in the business of making people feel better. Instead create a "vaccine" that will force a user into withdrawal.


And you know what's next right? Kids at age 6 being injected with a cocktail of "vaccines" that make them immune to illicit drugs alongside resistance against measles and polio. Mandatory.


What if this shot reduces your ability to lead a happy and fulfilling life? If something can blot out cocaine, a major active drug in the pleasure and reward system of your brain, how will your brain be under it without cocaine? Will it attack similar but naturally occurring chemicals in the human brain?


Make a drug that quenches the desire. One that makes the user feel better so they can cope better with not taking cocaine. That should be top priority, not create a vaccine that can be abused to force people into abstinence, even if they don't want it.

I'm skeptical.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7827760 - 01/03/08 04:40 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

The immune system has a pretty good specificity. It is likely that cocaine will be specifically targeted.

It's likely the vaccine will have high levels of circulating antibodies which will attach/attack the molecules as soon as they enter the bloodstream.

Even if a user is able to "overcome" the immune response to cocaine and get high, it'll take a larger dose, discouraging him/her from using more.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisiblemother_of_pearl
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: CosmicFool]
    #7827951 - 01/03/08 05:21 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

What a great way to get all the coke you want. Well you see after 20 years of testing and 3 tons of coke later we haven't quite done it yet , "but we are working on it" sniff.. sniff...

Were can I sign up as a guinea pig?


--------------------
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OfflineCosmicFool
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7828098 - 01/03/08 05:52 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

W_S I'm also not sure about this. If it stays voluntary (like that will happen  :rolleyes:) it sounds OK, but even in that case I'm sure some parents will vaccinate their kids against the "evil drug"

And maybe people could get high w/ a large enough dose, quick enough. But if this prevents users from the effects of coke it may guard against ODs from coke as well.

In the end I'm sure this will lead to vaccines for other drugs and a loss of rights all around but this research may lead to other helpful vaccines, like cancer or aids


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Offlinexurzax
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: CosmicFool]
    #7828107 - 01/03/08 05:54 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

This is great and all, but what happens when the government realizes that these "drug vaccines" could be used to fight the war on drugs?

I can see mandatory shots being handed out to people convicted of nonviolent drug crimes.


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OfflineGainer
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: xurzax]
    #7828154 - 01/03/08 06:05 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

What if you kept doing coke all night? Would there be a point where your immune system could not keep up with the amount of coke your putting in your body? Would this throw your immune system out of wack trying to fight coke that keeps being put in the body all night or what if someone tries to go on a two or three day binge?


--------------------
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OfflineVibrate
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: xurzax]
    #7828172 - 01/03/08 06:09 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

xurzax said:


I can see mandatory shots being handed out to people convicted of nonviolent drug crimes.




This is what I was thinking. The step after that will be vaccinating all children.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Vibrate]
    #7828224 - 01/03/08 06:24 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Imagine having been vaccinated at age six against Marijuana, Psychedelics and Ecstasy.

Way to go government :crankey:


Quote:

The step after that will be vaccinating all children.




The step after that put it in a germ and set it loose on the general population?

Quote:

Even if a user is able to "overcome" the immune response to cocaine and get high, it'll take a larger dose, discouraging him/her from using more.




Do you believe shooting a higher dose of cocaine will actually discourage the target population? It will be considered a particularly nasty case of tolerance.

We have people who scrape the tar out of their bong and smoke or swallow the goop. Considering this kind of desperate fiend behavior happens with just pot; don't you think cocaine addicts will be more desperate to resort to anything that gets them high?


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OfflineThe_Ghost
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7828323 - 01/03/08 06:50 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
No way an immune system response will beat the first puff of crack smoke  or injected cocaine from reaching your brain first. I don't believe it will work as well as they say it does.

What prevents a cocaine addict from graduating to the needle and :syringe: a dose large enough to overwhelm the immune system response? And if they do... they are drug users who perform street injections while having an overwhelmed immune system. That will kill people. Immune system respnses vary in strength. That means that the amount of cocaine, the overdose of cocaine, a vaccined user has to inject to feel what he so craves for, varies too. And that means killing. A lot of people will die because of this.

Quote:

It turns out those pathways are difficult to rewire once they've seen the drug.




Continued craving but no chance of relief, unless you resort to injecting OD's which at any time may ACT as OD's. That's a fucking cure alright. Serves the DEA notion that druggies should be punished for their sins.

They don't design a drug to quench the desire.. noooo we're not in the business of making people feel better. Instead create a "vaccine" that will force a user into withdrawal.


And you know what's next right? Kids at age 6 being injected with a cocktail of "vaccines" that make them immune to illicit drugs alongside resistance against measles and polio. Mandatory.


What if this shot reduces your ability to lead a happy and fulfilling life? If something can blot out cocaine, a major active drug in the pleasure and reward system of your brain, how will your brain be under it without cocaine? Will it attack similar but naturally occurring chemicals in the human brain?


Make a drug that quenches the desire. One that makes the user feel better so they can cope better with not taking cocaine. That should be top priority, not create a vaccine that can be abused to force people into abstinence, even if they don't want it.

I'm skeptical.



Wiccan nails it again.


--------------------
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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7830822 - 01/04/08 08:17 AM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:


Do you believe shooting a higher dose of cocaine will actually discourage the target population? It will be considered a particularly nasty case of tolerance.

We have people who scrape the tar out of their bong and smoke or swallow the goop. Considering this kind of desperate fiend behavior happens with just pot; don't you think cocaine addicts will be more desperate to resort to anything that gets them high?




The target population is treatment seeking individuals (e.g. people that want to quit). This makes a large difference in the outcome to abstinence treatment.

And yes, needing a significantly higher dose of a substance to get high will decrease use. Ask a heroin user about buprenorphine. Why would someone use a drug if they know it won't do anything?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: badchad]
    #7831188 - 01/04/08 10:51 AM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

The target population is treatment seeking individuals (e.g. people that want to quit). This makes a large difference in the outcome to abstinence treatment.





Initially yes, but if that gets result it might be extended to anyone arrested for cocaine, anyone known to use the stuff and maybe beyond.

Quote:

Ask a heroin user about buprenorphine. Why would someone use a drug if they know it won't do anything?




Bupe is a mixed Agonist-Antagonist. That's not the same. Heavy cocaine injections probably will override the immune response to some extent.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7831302 - 01/04/08 11:38 AM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:


Bupe is a mixed Agonist-Antagonist. That's not the same.




obviously. The mechanisms of action are entirely different, however the outcome is the same: severely diminshed (or completely blocked) effect of a drug.

And lastly, these "vaccinations" currently are pretty expensive and last on the order of months. It doesn't make sense to use them prophylactically (at the moment).


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (01/04/08 11:38 AM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: badchad]
    #7831378 - 01/04/08 12:01 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

I'm just really fed up about how to pharmaceutical companies euphoria is an unwanted effect, even when looking for novel antidepressants.

If the mice like it, the drug is shelved. This results in all sorts of psychotropic medications and mechanisms being invented that are bitter pills to swallow for the patient.

If you find an euphoric antidepressant that stays euphoric without tolerance and with benign side effects it will be a blessing to humanity and it will help addicted people as much as it will help depressed people.

Alleviating suffering is one of the main reasons we're having doctors atc, but because of the purist philosophies of the war on drugs it is being phased out more and more from medicine.

Find a drug that will effectively and sustainably act on the pleasure and reward centers of the brain, with a benign side effects profile. Then you have a drug that will alleviate suffering to some extent for most medical problems in the book.

Scientists: go on an all-out quest to make Brave New World's Soma a reality in some form or another.


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OfflineCosmicFool
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7831401 - 01/04/08 12:09 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Find a drug that will effectively and sustainably act on the pleasure and reward centers of the brain, with a benign side effects profile. Then you have a drug that will alleviate suffering to some extent for most medical problems in the book.





Were's the $$$ in that?


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: CosmicFool]
    #7831424 - 01/04/08 12:16 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Were's the $$$ in that?





Surely you're kidding. That kind of drug will be the best-selling pill in the history of pharmaceutical science.

A drug that feels like a wee bit of heroin or a wee bit of ecstasy, but which can be taken daily without tolerance or other issues, and which is applicable without untoward consequence for the medical indication of "general suffering and malaise".

It is the holy grail of pharmaceuticals, to finally have a weapon in the war against suffering of any kind, without a price to pay. It wouldn't just be good medicine, it would be the best-selling drug of all time.

No tolerance, no addiction, no serious side effects or other significant issues. Such a drug would transform the world as we know it as the invention of electricity did.

Everyone wants it, there's no compelling reason not to prescribe it to them, and every day people will take one pill at breakfast and two when they return from work.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7831467 - 01/04/08 12:29 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

The obvious problem (which you mentioned) is addiction.  Anything that produces euphoria is likely to have a high abuse liability because face it, why wouldn't you want to feel good all the time?

Physical dependence and tolerance aren't necessarily bad per se.  Look at caffeine.  It's adverse physical consequences (which probably would be a relatively easy problem to circumvent) and the single, biggest factor: abuse liability/addiction.

I hope to be on the team that develops soma someday :smile:  The beautiful irony will be that I'll have so much money, I won't need it!!


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineCosmicFool
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7831489 - 01/04/08 12:34 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Every day people will take one pill at breakfast and two when they return from work.




I see, this pill is only temporary relief.
I was assuming this pill was curing disease and there's no $$$ in cures.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: badchad]
    #7831509 - 01/04/08 12:41 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

The obvious problem (which you mentioned) is addiction. Anything that produces euphoria is likely to have a high abuse liability because face it, why wouldn't you want to feel good all the time?





If there are no negative consequences to the drug, if it didn't lead to escalating use, comedowns and stuff, would addiction potential be that big of a concern?

It would be strictly psychological addiction, but without a comedown.

Instead what you would get is that neuroplasticity makes a slightly elevated mood the new norm, if you take it for a couple of months or so.

If the drug doesn't actually downregulate, your brain will become accustomed to being upregulated and over time define that as the new baseline state.

If your brain is used to episodes of :crankey: you will become more capable of feeling :crankey: due to neuroplasticity. If you're accustomed to :smile2: however, your :crankey: pathways will atrophy as your brain gears towards the :smile2: state in exactly the same way. Short of neurosurgery perpetual :smile2: isn't possible, but you sure can elevate the general feeling tone and experience your psychologic highs and lows from that elevated level.

If you can keep yourself happier somehow for a few years, your brain will be predisposed to making you feel happy. To a limited extent you can unlearn suffering or become very good at it.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7831577 - 01/04/08 01:05 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
If there are no negative consequences to the drug, if it didn't lead to escalating use, comedowns and stuff, would addiction potential be that big of a concern?




No. But the difficulty in achieving all that is what makes it a pipe dream.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinejasonpwnd
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7831790 - 01/04/08 02:32 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
If there are no negative consequences to the drug, if it didn't lead to escalating use, comedowns and stuff, would addiction potential be that big of a concern?

It would be strictly psychological addiction, but without a comedown.




Sounds like THC? Minus the escalating use, you'd have to use it a lot to get the constantly happy effects. Too bad you can build tolerance so easily though..


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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #7832624 - 01/04/08 06:40 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

they put up a piece of paper at the methadone clinic i go to about this... apparently they are looking for volunteers for their clinical trial.. and not just cocaine addicts.. but pretty much addicts of all kinds


fuck this shit.. i hope it fails miserably.. or it kills everyone who takes it.


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Offlinesmokescreen
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: Asante]
    #10856061 - 08/13/09 11:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

consider the implications of a psychedelic "vaccine".  This shot or whatever form it may be in would have to cover alot of chemicals!  Look at how many shulgin made.. then consider how many more possibilities are out there.  Ok let's just figure it "blocks" LSD, psilocin, and MDMA - the three major ones.  Psilocin is basically an orally active form of DMT, an indigenous and important neural transmitter involved in dreaming and who knows what else.  You can kind of group LSD with that also, though nowhere near as close to DMT as shrooms.  Think about the possibility of NEVER dreaming again... we're talking insanity.  I don't know where MDMA chimes in here, but what if the vaccine somehow blocked the empathy emotion somewhat as a side-effect.  What would a human be without that emotion.  This is scary shit.


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OfflineMichiaelJackson
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: smokescreen]
    #10856159 - 08/13/09 11:51 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Am I the only person who finds this shit scary as fucking hell?


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Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Researchers work on cocaine vaccine [Re: CosmicFool]
    #10857858 - 08/14/09 07:39 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Wait, wait, wait..

Somebody snorts 100mg of cocaine and every single cocaine molecule will be attacked by the immune system?

That sounds very dangerous to me in itself. The number of virus particles in the most severe flu is millions upon millions of times smaller than the number of cocaine molecules in 100mg of blow.

Directly or indirectly, this will cost lives.


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