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Invisibleaxis_bal
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Re: Dow tags 8000, S&P tags 840 - heavy volume selling at the open [Re: Liquidkick]
    #9058965 - 10/10/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

From what I know, which is very little. Where I trade you need 25,000 permanent balance to get a margin account. You also need enough money in each trade that the commissions don't kill your profits.

I have heard of a lot of people failing at day trading. Where do you learn?


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OnlinegeokillsA
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Stock Update for October 10th, 2008 - MCD, NOV, GS, MO [Re: geokills]
    #9059353 - 10/10/08 02:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

It was a harrowing day in the markets today, let me tell ya.  I was up before the sun rose to keep my eye on the news, knowing that we would be in for a terrible opening.  Well we got that, with the Dow falling nearly 700 points right at the open, and within that first 30 minutes, rallying back into positive territory!  Over the course of the day, we got whipsawed back down toward the lows, down 500+ points, and finally by the last hour we found ourselves back in positive territory, closing down a "mere" 100 points.  Now if that doesn't make your head spin, you hold quite the even keel!

Given the fact that the markets are now some 40% off of their highs, that we've had eight straight down days, that pessimism and fear has been absolutely extreme, and that the so-called "safe" recessionary stocks got killed yesterday and this morning; it would seem that we have all the ingredients in place for near-term upside, also known as a bear market rally.  Furthermore, it seems likely that there will be some sort of coordinated global government statements made over the weekend, with the finance ministers of the G-7 nations getting together.  And possibly one of the most important factors, that the market was able to close today without severe losses, will help improve sentiment for next week's trading.

By no means am I indicating that we will be flying back up to our highs, but I believe we could see some sort of rally in the coming week or two that will offer some relief and repair to the market.  However, if and when we do see it, you can be sure that I will be looking for opportunities to sell as well as for a solid entry into the UltraShort (SDS), in order to hedge further downside.  With all of this in mind, I took the initiative to put some of my large cash position to work today, and picked up some stocks that seemed relentlessly beaten down today:


  • McDonalds (MCD) - Re-initiated position with 40 shares @ $49.48

    I booked some solid gains in this name when I closed my position with two sales at $63.50 and $64 just about one month ago.  Seeing the shares below $50, and yielding over 4% with their $2 annual dividend, I decided the time was right to start rebuilding this position.  My only regret, is that I didn't buy more!  The shares ended the day up almost 8% from where I made this purchase.  McDonalds is a worldwide casual restaurant that works in recessionary environments, because people will "trade down" by eating at a cheaper restaurants.  Furthermore, their increased focus on higher profit margin beverages is working well.  I'm very happy to have been able to buy back this name at such a steal in the midst of all the panic today.  This was probably my smartest move today.


  • National Oilwell Varco (NOV) - Bought 45 shares @ $24.49

    As hedge funds continue to be forced to liquidate, and with oil coming down, and no dividend support, this driller has been hit relentlessly.  Even so, they have a huge backlog and are among the best of breed in the industry.  As they play an integral role for many oil and natural gas producers, I cannot fathom them going out of business.  It does look like oil could continue to fall as low as $60, but I want this name in my portfolio for the long term.  HOWEVER, I will consent that this was probably my most reckless purchase today.  The stock closed down from where I made my purchase, and there is really no telling when the liquidation process will stop in the oil patch.  It may make more sense to get into a major integrated oil company such as BP (BP) or Chevron (CVX), which are trading with dividends yielding some 8% and 4% respectively, because their huge cash positions and safe dividends will help protect them from the downside that a company such as NOV can face.  I'll have to think on this some more, as NOV is now taking a pretty big position in my portfolio, and that is something I am not entirely comfortable with right now... even with my long-term horizon.  This discomfort stems from the two major headwinds: falling oil prices and hedge fund liquidations.  Even if NOV's fundamental business is sound and strong, these two headwinds can wreck value in the share price.  Hrmm...


  • Goldman Sachs (GS) - Bought 12 shares @ $84.80

    I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Goldman is the best investment bank out there (even though now they are technically a regular bank).  Goldman received a $10 billion dollar investment from Warren Buffet earlier this month, which was priced somewhere around $124 a share if my memory serves.  Granted, Buffet is getting the bonus of a 10% yield on his capital infusion, but consider that at ~$85, you can buy a share of Goldman for some 30% lower than what Warren Buffet thought was reasonable.  That says a lot to me, as does the fact the Goldman is trading below its book value, which is something rarely seen.  I am hoping that Morgan Stanley (MS) gets a deal done this weekend - there are rumors they may pair up with Citigroup - but already on the table is a $9 billion infusion from Japan's Mitsubishi Financial which is scheduled to close Tuesday.  The shorts tried to destroy MS today, and had they succeeded, Goldman (as well as the entire market) would certainly be in for a world of pain... but it looks like that crisis will be averted, and I maintain that Goldman will emerge from this crisis stronger than ever.  The only financial stock I would want to own right now other than Goldman, would be JP Morgan (JPM).


  • Altria (MO) - Bought 65 shares @ $16.75

    Already my largest position, I wanted to add because it has just gotten crushed over the last couple of days.  This is what I'm talking about when I note that "safe" recessionary stocks are now facing the brunt of panic selling.  Altria is flush with cash, has a very safe dividend which at $16.75 yields an impressive 7.6%, has a soft goods product that will stay in demand (cigarettes) even in economic recession, and their acquisition of the UST smokeless tobacco company should provide upside to their earnings potential. 


Note, I consent that I may have put cash to work too quickly in National Oilwell Varco (NOV), with two purchases this week at $30 and $25.  I just can't believe how low it has gotten, but I should have maintained greater discipline.  I will look for an exit in the coming week, to reduce my exposure to the name.  The market is so uncertain right now it is nuts, and as a personal note to any of you who have followed me along this journey and are considering investing your own money.  Please don't invest money you can't lose.  I know that even if this entire portfolio went to zero, I'd still be OK.  But by no means would I advocate investing money right now that you can't afford to lose.  HOWEVER, if you have not setup an Individual Retirement Account (IRA), I do believe now is a great time to contribute and place your money into a general S&P500 index fund.  With the market 40% below its high, and the average bear market knocking some 25 - 60% off of the index, it seems we are closer to a bottom than the top to be sure... and given the nature of an IRA, that you will be sitting on it for many years to come, this is likely a fantastic time to begin or contribute towards your retirement.



Discretionary Portfolio as of 10/10/2008:
  • 26% Cash
  • 13.5% Altria (MO)
  • 8.6% Walmart (WMT)
  • 8.1% Proctor & Gamble (PG)
  • 6.6% National Oilwell Varco (NOV)
  • 6.3% Celgene (CELG)
  • 5.6% SPDR Gold Trust (GLD)
  • 5.4% Goldman Sachs (GS)
  • 4.9% Freeport McMoran (FCX)
  • 4.1% McDonalds (MCD)
  • 3.8% CPFL Energia (CPL)
  • 3.8% Kinder Morgan (KMP)
  • 3.2% Deere (DE)


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··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


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OnlinegeokillsA
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Re: Stock Update for October 10th, 2008 - NOV [Re: geokills]
    #9059766 - 10/10/08 04:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

  • National Oilwell Varco (NOV) - Bought 45 shares @ $24.49

    As hedge funds continue to be forced to liquidate, and with oil coming down, and no dividend support, this driller has been hit relentlessly.  Even so, they have a huge backlog and are among the best of breed in the industry.  As they play an integral role for many oil and natural gas producers, I cannot fathom them going out of business.  It does look like oil could continue to fall as low as $60, but I want this name in my portfolio for the long term.  HOWEVER, I will consent that this was probably my most reckless purchase today.  The stock closed down from where I made my purchase, and there is really no telling when the liquidation process will stop in the oil patch.  It may make more sense to get into a major integrated oil company such as BP (BP) or Chevron (CVX), which are trading with dividends yielding some 8% and 4% respectively, because their huge cash positions and safe dividends will help protect them from the downside that a company such as NOV can face.  I'll have to think on this some more, as NOV is now taking a pretty big position in my portfolio, and that is something I am not entirely comfortable with right now... even with my long-term horizon.  This discomfort stems from the two major headwinds: falling oil prices and hedge fund liquidations.  Even if NOV's fundamental business is sound and strong, these two headwinds can wreck value in the share price.  Hrmm...




  • I've really been thinking about this one, and I just could not justify the risk of holding on here.  I have liquidated my position at ~45% loss after hours.  I love the company, I believe its underlying fundamentals are solid, but without any dividend protection, with oil falling, and should we see Morgan Stanley fail next week, it will continue to be hit ridiculously hard by hedge fund redemptions. 

    I also want to make sure I still have a good lot of cash on hand just in case we do see another crash early next week.  This decision really killed me, but in booking my $3000 loss, I have removed nearly half of my portfolio's tax obligations for 2008, so at least there is a silver lining.  Furthermore, I can always buy back these shares later.  I've been realizing I need to be more flexible in this market, especially this market.  So here it is.

    I'm really fretting over this one though... because the stock is so incredibly oversold, and the company still has a $10 billion backlog.  But this market is so tough right now, and having just initiated a position in Kinder Morgan (KMP), which is also in the natural gas industry, I did not want so much of my portfolio riding in that sector.  In retrospect, I should have only sold half of the position, but my emotions got the best of me, and the markets are now closed.  I'll just have to wait and see.


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    Edited by geokills (10/10/08 05:47 PM)


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    InvisibleLiquidkick
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    Re: Dow tags 8000, S&P tags 840 - heavy volume selling at the open [Re: axis_bal]
        #9059965 - 10/10/08 05:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    Quote:

    axis_bal said:
    From what I know, which is very little. Where I trade you need 25,000 permanent balance to get a margin account. You also need enough money in each trade that the commissions don't kill your profits.

    I have heard of a lot of people failing at day trading. Where do you learn?




    you pretty much have to look at technical analysis with some fundamental things mixed in...Try timothysykes.com


    I don't play right now the US Stock market.  I only Forex trade now.

    You do not need 25k for a margin account.  A margin account will allow you to not wait for your trades to settle before you can trade again.  You are allowed up to 3 day trades for a rolling 5 trading days.  Once you hit the 4th day trade you get the PDT label. 

    Then you will need 25k.  A day trade is when you buy and sell the same stock in the same day.  Or sell and buy. 

    Holding the stock overnight will not count as a day trade.

    if i were daytrading the US stock market, i would definitely not be holding onto any positions over the weekend.  You never know what the gov is going to do.

    and the commodities are getting unwound (they been getting unwound now for awhile)... and gold and oil will go down.  You would think gold is going up...but nope.


    I don't believe in diversification.  I have never made any money being diversified.  Diversification only helps you to negate losses when shit hits the fan but hurts you when you are looking for the big gains. 


    In my opinion you diversify only to try to preserve your portfolio...

    Since i daytrade and hold cash as much as possible, i do not worry about diversification.


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    Invisibleaxis_bal
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    Re: Dow tags 8000, S&P tags 840 - heavy volume selling at the open [Re: Liquidkick]
        #9060614 - 10/10/08 07:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    I guess I associate day trading with stock channeling.


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    Offlinefresh313
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    Re: Dow tags 8000, S&P tags 840 - heavy volume selling at the open [Re: axis_bal]
        #9061522 - 10/11/08 12:57 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    daytrading could also mean playing the spread and cutting the specialist out by offering a higher bid price and lower sell price. aka 'shaving points' . very risky strategy in anything remotely volatile.  need alot of capital to make money on the small gains as well.

    market bottom should be here at 8000 unless its the 2nd great depression.


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    InvisibleBoom
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    Re: Dow tags 8000, S&P tags 840 - heavy volume selling at the open [Re: fresh313]
        #9062242 - 10/11/08 08:22 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    OK, I don't know shit about stocks...but I bought 100 shares of AIG yesterday at 1.97 :awesome:


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    InvisibleAroundtheSon
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    Re: Dow tags 8000, S&P tags 840 - heavy volume selling at the open [Re: Boom]
        #9062257 - 10/11/08 08:30 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    Best of Luck!


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    InvisibleBaeosistine
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    Re: Stock Update for October 10th, 2008 - MCD, NOV, GS, MO [Re: geokills]
        #9063288 - 10/11/08 02:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    Quote:

    geokills said:
    Furthermore, it seems likely that there will be some sort of coordinated global government statements made over the weekend, with the finance ministers of the G-7 nations getting together.  And possibly one of the most important factors, that the market was able to close today without severe losses, will help improve sentiment for next week's trading.





    I think they fucked up big-time by not announcing anything today, they can't afford to wait a few weeks to work out something they all agree on.

    Dow futures are -220


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    InvisibleFerris
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    Re: Stock Update for October 10th, 2008 - MCD, NOV, GS, MO [Re: Baeosistine]
        #9070823 - 10/13/08 12:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    Booyashaka


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    InvisibleBaeosistine
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    Re: Stock Update for October 10th, 2008 - MCD, NOV, GS, MO [Re: Ferris]
        #9071324 - 10/13/08 02:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    The Euro ministers and Gordon did it instead.


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    OnlinegeokillsA
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    Stock Update for October 13th [Re: geokills]
        #9071604 - 10/13/08 03:38 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    Quote:

    geokills said:
  • National Oilwell Varco (NOV)

    I've really been thinking about this one, and I just could not justify the risk of holding on here.  I have liquidated my position at ~45% loss after hours. 

    I'm really fretting over this one though... because the stock is so incredibly oversold, and the company still has a $10 billion backlog.  But this market is so tough right now, and having just initiated a position in Kinder Morgan (KMP), which is also in the natural gas industry, I did not want so much of my portfolio riding in that sector.  In retrospect, I should have only sold half of the position, but my emotions got the best of me, and the markets are now closed.  I'll just have to wait and see.




  • Well... of course!  Another great example of why panicking never made anyone a dime.  I let the newswires get to me and panicked out of my NOV position at quite literally the last minute of trading on Friday, and today the stock is up almost 25%.  It is a shame, and hopefully a lesson learned.

    On a happier note, my purchases in McDonalds at $49.48, Altria at $16.75, and Goldman Sachs at $84.80 paid off in a huge way.  Definitely the largest dollar amount by which my portfolio has grown in a single day.  But for now, I'm sitting tight and did not take any action.


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    InvisibleCowgold
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    Re: Stock Update for October 13th [Re: geokills]
        #9076477 - 10/14/08 02:46 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    Great news, Geo.


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    OnlinegeokillsA
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    Stock Update for October 14, 2008 - JPM, FCX, GS, CPL [Re: Cowgold]
        #9077502 - 10/14/08 06:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    Too bad I dropped the ball on my NOV position, it ended up at $30, a full $6 higher than I liquidated on friday. :sad:

    On the upside, I got to book some nice gains today in other names.  I want to be very cautious in this market, because even though the news has been sweet since the weekend hit, earnings season is likely to show quite a few negatives, particularly on the future outlook for many companies.  With this in mind, I am reducing exposure to my riskier bets (though I will still trade around the positions as they rise/fall), and will look to continue building positions in companies that are not likely to be terribly affected by the recession we find ourselves in.

    • JP Morgan (JPM) - Bought 75 shares @ $42

      This premiere bank is sporting a safe 3.6% dividend, and has been making all the right moves by stealin' other failing banks such as Bear Sterns and Washington Mutual.  Now with over $1 trillion in deposits, and full access to funding from the Fed, JPMorgan is likely to emerge as one of the strongest banks in the world.  I paid up a little for these shares, and will not buy anymore unless we find ourselves below $40 a share. 


    • Freeport McMoran (FCX) - Sold 25 shares @ $45.01

      These are shares that I purchased last week at $39.49.  I'm flipping them for a quick gain.  We had a huge run on Monday and I do not believe that such violent upside will be sustainable in this economic climate.  With a slowing global economy, the demand for copper will likely fall so Freeport is not exceptionally well positioned for the short term... but for the longterm, this company is gold!  If I can buy more below $40, where the dividend is yielding better than 4%, you'll find me buying back more shares in this quality copper, gold and molybdenum mining company.


    • Goldman Sachs (GS) - Sold 8 shares @ 125.03

      Another quick flip, from where I purchased 12 shares last week at below $85.  Amazing run this stock has had, and though I want to keep Goldman Sachs in my portfolio as a core position, I have to be responsible when seeing such rapid gains.  I will look to repurchase these shares if Goldman can fall back towards $100 a share.


    • CPFL Energia (CPL) - Sold 25 shares @ $47.05

      Still some 30% below my average cost basis, this Brazilian electric utility would probably be an OK hold for the next several years.  It does sport a handsome 10% dividend... but I have a mind to reduce my exposure to the Brazilian market and instead rotate these funds into Kinder Morgan (KMP), which I just initiated a position in last week while the stock was depressed (since up 12%).


    Discretionary Portfolio as of 10/14/2008:
    • 36.4% Cash
    • 13.1% Altria (MO)
    • 7.8% Walmart (WMT)
    • 7.4% Proctor & Gamble (PG)
    • 5.6% Celgene (CELG)
    • 4.9% JP Morgan (JPM)
    • 4.8% Goldman Sachs (GS)
    • 4.7% SPDR Gold Trust (GLD)
    • 3.6% McDonalds (MCD)
    • 3.6% Kinder Morgan (KMP)
    • 3.3% Freeport McMoran (FCX)
    • 3.2% Deere (DE)
    • 2.4% CPFL Energia (CPL)


    --------------------

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    InvisibleFerris
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    Re: Stock Update for October 14, 2008 - JPM, FCX, GS, CPL [Re: geokills]
        #9077583 - 10/14/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    A quick breakdown of my recent numbers (using my initial 06/03/08 deposit as a base).  Just want to show how wild the ride has been recently.

    Monday of week before last: 19.58% to 47.3% (+27.72)
    Tuesday-Friday week before last: 47.3% to 59.27% (+11.97)
    Total week before last: +39.69%

    Last week: 59.27% to 20.21% (-39.06%)

    Monday: 20.21% to 40.72%
    Tuesday: 40.72% to 53.70% (+12.98)
    This week so far: +33.49%

    So ya, someone break out the oxygen masks, because I'm going for high risk, high return since I can afford it.  It's working out well so far.

    Oh, and remember that the percent gains and drops sound higher than they are since I'm above my base.  Today for instance my actual return was 9.22%, not 12.98%


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    InvisibleFerris
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    Re: Stock Update for October 14, 2008 - JPM, FCX, GS, CPL [Re: Ferris]
        #9081163 - 10/15/08 12:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    PBR is a tease.  I put in a limit order for 26.01 around 1 EST and it's dropped within 20 cents for about half an hour now.  As soon as I give in for 26.2, that'll be right when it drops 50 cents, just watch :lol:


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    InvisibleBaeosistine
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    Re: Stock Update for October 14, 2008 - JPM, FCX, GS, CPL [Re: Ferris]
        #9081260 - 10/15/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    I have just started buying in London after a rest of a few years

    Picked up some GSK and Unilever, which should outperform during a recession.


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    OfflineTerillius
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    Re: Stock Update for October 14, 2008 - JPM, FCX, GS, CPL [Re: Baeosistine]
        #9098052 - 10/18/08 10:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    :grin::grin::grin:

    I just deposited my check from Scottrade, having evacuated before all this shit went down.  I'm thinking that I'll buy a car with the money I didn't lose.  That's an investment.

    Being a saver, I'm pissed that this is going down, but I'm glad that I'm not old enough to have serious scratch put together yet.  700 points in a day?  That has to be painful for the diversified...

    By the time I buy a house, the market is going to be juuuuuusssst right.  Like a ripe melon.  "Pick me!" The houses will say...  "Pick me!"

    :rofl2:


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    OnlinegeokillsA
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    Stock Update for October 22, 2008 - FCX, GE, SDS [Re: geokills]
        #9116089 - 10/22/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    Crikey... yet another trecherous day with the market swingin' some 8% on the day!

    I sure am glad I sold some FCX last week up at $45, Goldman at $125, and CPL Energia at $47... these stocks are now trading at $27, $115, and $38 respectively; which are just HUGE losses.  In a market like this, I've realized the ever increasing importance of flexibility and short-term time horizons.  Things are moving so fast, and I would like to teach myself to capitalize better off of this intense volatility.  With this in mind, I will be more diligent about setting specific buy and sell targets for small short-term trades.


    • Freeport McMoran (FCX) - Bought 35 shares @ $28

      This copper & gold miner is now over 37% below where I sold a chunk last week.  I am buying back the shares today for yet another anticipated short term flip.  Freeport reported a poor quarter, missing earnings estimates and reducing its production levels.  Copper is difficult to find and is likely to remain in tight supply, but there is no denying that short-term demand has weakened and copper prices been sliced in half from almost $4 a pound in June to some $2 a pound this month!  I don't believe this tremendous decline in copper is sustainable.  Furthermore, Freeport has lowered its debt and does not need to access capital in any way, which makes its hefty 6%+ dividend yield feel much more secure.  By lowering capital expenditures and preserving its balance sheet, FCX is proving that they know what it takes to weather bad markets (as they have before).  Long-term, this company will be OK... its trading at 4 times earnings, 0.8 times book value and generates $3.5 billion in cash (with copper at $2.15/lb).  In the meantime, I intend to continue trading around this core position to capitalize on the near-term volatility.  My next buy point is $25 a share, and I will of course sell into strength above these buy points.


    • General Electric (GE) - Bought 199 shares @ $19

      I typically do not comment on my retirement portfolio holdings, but I wanted to highlight the value that I believe GE is offering at the current level.  This is a giant conglomerate that operates in over 100 countries; involved with aircraft engines, power generation, water processing and security technology to medical imaging, business and consumer financing, media content and industrial products.  GE reported an in-line earnings report last week, reaffirming its guidance and commitment to its dividend.  Obviously its financial division is challenged, but they were still able to post a $2 billion gain in its quarter and remains AAA-rated.  GE continues to win contracts in its infrastructure business, improving its backlog.  After having been cut in half and now yielding 6.5% through its dividend, I am happy to put it away for years to come (even though I have a mind to flip half of the position on any significant near-term strength).


    • UltraShort S&P500 ProShares (SDS) - Bought 30 shares @ $100

      Yea, I'm paying up.  Yes, I should have held on earlier when I opened a position in the SDS at around $60.  But that's history, and this is now.  Remember that this fund returns two times the inverse of the S&P500 average.  I am paying up for this downside protection just in case today's retest of our lows will not hold. The S&P500 had a closing low around 890 earlier this month, today we closed just a point or two below that level.  So while we could see a little bounce if we hold, it is also very possible that we are in for another significant leg down if we break this level.  With so many long positions in the portfolio right now, I want to add some measure of protection against further downside.


    Discretionary Portfolio as of 10/22/2008:
    • 25.2% Cash
    • 15% Altria (MO)
    • 8.6% Walmart (WMT)
    • 7.8% Proctor & Gamble (PG)
    • 6.0% Celgene (CELG)
    • 5.8% UltraShort S&P500 ProShares (SDS)
    • 5.6% Freeport McMoran (FCX)
    • 5.2% JPMorgan (JPM)
    • 5.2% Goldman Sachs (GS)
    • 4.7% SPDR Gold Trust (GLD)
    • 4.3% Kinder Morgan (KMP)
    • 4.1% McDonalds (MCD)
    • 2.8% Deere (DE)


    --------------------

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    ...π╥ ╥π...


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    InvisibleLuddite
    I watch Fox News
     User Gallery

    Registered: 03/23/06
    Posts: 2,946
    Re: Stock Update for October 22, 2008 - FCX, GE, SDS [Re: geokills]
        #9117057 - 10/22/08 05:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

    Safe yield with ishares TIP?  According to bigcharts.com the yield is over 9% based on the last monthly dividend.
    http://www.streetauthority.com/cmnts/cp/2008/03-16-treasury-funds.asp

    Go here:
    http://investtalk.hitfastforward.com/?p=503
    scroll down to Bailout Myths.  If you listen to this after 36 minutes, they talk about TIP.  They say its safe.

    Dividend History Since Inception
    http://www.etfconnect.com/select/fundpages/div_history.asp?MFID=121216

    How safe is the dividend from XKN?  33% yield means that if you get that dividend for three years you get your principle back and can continue to hold the shares of XKN and get more dividends.
    http://www.streetauthority.com/cmnts/cp/2008/07-30-lehman-ford.asp
    Ford has billions of dollars to pay off their debts with.


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