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Offlinebrew
Stranger
Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 21
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
cool mist troubles
    #7826445 - 01/03/08 04:30 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

well I am trying to rig up a cool mist to a 50 gal tub, and its proving to be one of the most erve trying things I have done in a while. After buying an evaporative labeled as a cool mist, I finally got a vicks 400 impeller. Now I have it run to the tub via a 3/4 tubing connected to an elbow inside the tub near the top. Problem is it has ben running for almost a day and RH is not above 60. Any ideas on how to increase the efficiency of this? I felt around the humidifier where the two peoces meet ( top and botom) and it feels wet, so I 'm guessing I should seal this? Also, since the elbow is pointed up, could I be loosing alot of humidy by escaping out between the lid and tub, as it doesn't seem to be 100 % air tight. Maybe I should put a T on the elbow with a few inches of pipe on each end with bottom ports so the air flow is pointed down? Well what do you think? THanks


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OfflineAlphanautics
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Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 103
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: brew]
    #7826455 - 01/03/08 04:59 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

I was having difficulty maintaining RH as well.. I started with a cool mist wickster in a tub with another tubin there of colonized substrate.. my ambient RH is very low, so this humidifier only got up to around 60% tops... what I did was bought an ultrasonic humidifier, it creates a very fine mist with transducer plates and also lends a little heat, which i find beneficial in my particular set up... now RH is 99% until I use the cool mist for FAE.. three times a day for two hours


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Offlinebrew
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 21
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: Alphanautics]
    #7830662 - 01/04/08 03:31 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

ok, I sealed every little crack and crevice I can find on the humidifier air tight and in 12 hrs got an extra 10% so I am at 70 now. Guess I am going to have to go with a bottom layer of perilite under my trays.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Registered: 05/17/04
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Re: cool mist troubles [Re: brew]
    #7830687 - 01/04/08 03:57 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

What you have is likely not a cool mist, but rather an evaporative, wick-type humidifier.

Check to see if it produces any sort of mist, if it doesn't then you have an evaporative type rather than an ultrasonic.

Wick types are only suitable if you place them inside the FC. Impeller types should generate 100% humidity.

Perhaps your humidity measurements are inaccurate.


-FF


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: cool mist troubles [Re: fastfred]
    #7830707 - 01/04/08 04:28 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

I've recommended against piping cool mists with hoses to fruiting chambers for years. In addition, perlite is the most efficient method of humidification for terrariums of all sizes. Search posts for fruiting chambers using my name and you'll find a lot of posts written on this subject.
RR


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Invisibleshroober
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Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 879
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: brew]
    #7831059 - 01/04/08 08:18 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

I'm working on my first setup, I recently purchased a cool mist and placed it INSIDE a large plastic FC. At first it would only get the RH up to 84%. I tweaked some exhaust ports on the chamber and it quickly rose to 99% RH (i was very surprised). That being said, I havent verified that my hydrometer is totally accurate so its possible that it is lower than that, but none the less, just tweaking the air exhaust on the FC raised the RH over 10 points. It seems to be all about a careful balance of air exchange and how long the cool mist is turned on for. Seemingly too much air exchange can lower your RH when using a cool mist.


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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: fastfred]
    #7831210 - 01/04/08 09:00 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Check to see if it produces any sort of mist, if it doesn't then you have an evaporative type rather than an ultrasonic.




If it's labeled "cool mist", it's either evaporative or impeller type. Impeller type is the preferred of the two, but neither one is good at humidifying an area through piping. Impeller types don't actually saturate the air with water directly like an ultrasonic does, they just throw water droplets into the air. In order to humidify the air, they need an area of air above the outlet for the droplets to evaporate as they move through the air. If you're forcing all the droplets through piping, a large percentage of the droplets will never get a chance to evaporate because they'll hit the tubing first, and then drip back into the humidifier. Forcing all the air through tubing also restricts the airflow, which usually leads to failure of the impeller motor (either from the bushings becoming wet, or from extra strain on the motor itself.)

The only time I suggest using a cool mist is INSIDE a fruiting area such as a greenhouse, and using a different method of FAE.


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Offlinebrew
Stranger
Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 21
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: Sillicybin]
    #7831702 - 01/04/08 11:49 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Thanks for the replies. It is deffinetly a impeller type, and yes the mist is condensing in the tube and draining back. I should be able to get the other 15-20 % from the perilite. Does anyone recommend lava rocks over perilite?


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: brew]
    #7831732 - 01/04/08 12:08 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

brew said:
well I am trying to rig up a cool mist to a 50 gal tub, and its proving to be one of the most erve trying things I have done in a while. After buying an evaporative labeled as a cool mist, I finally got a Vick's 400 impeller. Now I have it run to the tub via a 3/4 tubing connected to an elbow inside the tub near the top. Problem is it has been running for almost a day and RH is not above 60. Any ideas on how to increase the efficiency of this? I felt around the humidifier where the two pieces meet ( top and bottom) and it feels wet, so I 'm guessing I should seal this? Also, since the elbow is pointed up, could I be loosing alot of humidy by escaping out between the lid and tub, as it doesn't seem to be 100 % air tight. Maybe I should put a T on the elbow with a few inches of pipe on each end with bottom ports so the air flow is pointed down? Well what do you think? Thanks




Get an ultra sonic, you can tube them in without ruining them, and they will get your Rh to 99% in minutes.

Enough holes will provide FAE.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7831747 - 01/04/08 12:14 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Cool Mists are great for FAE, but holes can do just as well if larger and/or numerous enough.


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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: brew]
    #7831751 - 01/04/08 12:16 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Perlite works better than hydroton or lava rocks, but is messier than both.

The other upside to perlite is that if you get water from it on the carpet, you probably won't have to rent a shampooer (the other two will leave stains).


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Invisibleshroober
Myco Junkie


Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 879
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: brew]
    #7831761 - 01/04/08 12:19 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

as said earlier your problem is not your humidifier, it's the fact that you are collecting too much condensation when the air is released from the humidifier, try reducing the length of the tube coming from the humidifier or just remove it entirely and put the humidifier inside the FC, also make sure you have a reliable hydrometer so that you arent making unnecessary changes to a working system


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: cool mist troubles [Re: Sillicybin]
    #7833300 - 01/04/08 07:44 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Sillicybin said:
If it's labeled "cool mist", it's either evaporative or impeller type.




"Cool mist" really has no meaning anymore. I hate the fact that people are still using it.

Originally it was a trademark for Holmes ultrasonics. They let the trademark expire and now it's slapped whilly-nilly on all types of humidifiers, weather they produce any sort of mist or not. Even Holmes has now decided that "ultrasonic" sounds better so they slap the "cool mist" label on wick type ones now. I think that's blatantly false advertising.

So regardless what it says on the package, if your humidifier doesn't produce a visible mist then don't call it a "cool mist". In fact, don't use the term at all because it means nothing as it has been applied to all types of humidifiers in production, with the exception of steam based ones.


-FF


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: cool mist troubles [Re: fastfred]
    #7833517 - 01/04/08 08:45 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Ultras are the way to go by far. Holes for FAE, ultras for moisture.


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