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Offlineresptodd
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substrate potency
    #7825263 - 01/02/08 08:30 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

I searched for answers, but nothing satisfies my curiosity. Can a substrate increase or decrease the potency of a PC mush'? I read a thread about white rice flour vs brown rice flour for PF tek (still don't understand). Pass genetics, what is it the myc' is looking for to increase the alkaloid production? RR?


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: substrate potency [Re: resptodd]
    #7825331 - 01/02/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

From what I remember RR saying in previous posts, it's genetics. Science aside, I can say from experience that I've eaten straight BRF/Verm grown shrooms that have knocked my socks off just as much (if not more) as any other substrate I've used. Potency is kind of subjective anyway. I had a friend that would trip balls off of a gram of mushrooms when everyone else would require 3+ grams to have similar effects. Like most drugs, they effect different people in different ways.


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Edited by FooMan (01/02/08 08:52 PM)


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: substrate potency [Re: resptodd]
    #7825345 - 01/02/08 08:51 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

On a side note, if you want to do some serious reading of people's opinions, do a "search posts" and narrow it to the "advanced mycology forum", "subject only" and "main posts". For search terms, type "potency". There is an assload of discussion on the topic.


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Invisiblelostinautumn7
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Re: substrate potency [Re: resptodd]
    #7825347 - 01/02/08 08:51 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

to vaguely answer your question, yes IMO different substrates can increase/decrease the potency of cubensis mushrooms (assuming you are using the same genetics every time, and if not make an isolate!).

as for the white/brown rice thing....white rice produces inactive mushrooms and brown rice produces active mushrooms, the reason for this is the nutrients required for mushrooms to produce alkaloids lies in the brown rice shell.

as for what exactly it is that make the mushrooms produce alkaloids, will have to search that one buddy because that is a long answer that i honestly don't know.

but i can tell you that nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and calcium definitely couldn't hurt your chances. as long as you don't use too much that is.

i hope that helps in your searching. good luck! :thumbup:


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"May your mycelia multiply and be fruitful."

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Edited by lostinautumn7 (01/02/08 08:55 PM)


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: substrate potency [Re: lostinautumn7]
    #7825603 - 01/02/08 09:50 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Potency is measured by genetics and weight....white rice has been tried many many times and there was NO potency what so ever...white rice has no nutrition...stick with brown rice...


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Offlineresptodd
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Re: substrate potency [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7826374 - 01/03/08 03:06 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Now I'm just thinkin' off the wall. If one were to use white rice to germinate (like a PF cake)(no potency) then use the myc' to 'noc up some Hpoo would potency be gained? Just something to ponder on.


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OfflineEnothe
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Re: substrate potency [Re: resptodd]
    #7826420 - 01/03/08 03:44 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

im sure potency would be restored. but dont think youd gain any in the long run


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: substrate potency [Re: Enothe]
    #7826473 - 01/03/08 05:21 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

If u dont have the right nuitrients, the mushrooms wont be able to produce there actives.

I have found that pf-tek have been plenty potent or have been ok. Its all down to genetics if working with multispore.

I am quite sensitive to them, so i notice it quite a bit. I have noticed potency difference between flushes at doses of as little as 10 grams.

There was a thread not that long ago discusing what it was that brown rice flour had that white rice flour didnt


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: substrate potency [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7826767 - 01/03/08 09:31 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

as for the white/brown rice thing....white rice produces inactive mushrooms and brown rice produces active mushrooms, the reason for this is the nutrients required for mushrooms to produce alkaloids lies in the brown rice shell.





Don't spread disinformation on the board simply because you read where some noob posted that ridiculous crap somewhere else. White rice does not produce inactive mushrooms, and the nutrients that 'cause' potency do not reside in the shell of the brown rice.

Quote:

but i can tell you that nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and calcium definitely couldn't hurt your chances. as long as you don't use too much that is



NPK applies to plants, NOT fungi. Fungi are much more closely related to humans than to plants. Would you drink Miracle Grow for breakfast?

This subject has been written on extensively. The search feature here is your friend. Potency is genetic. Build your substrates with the food fungi needs, and leave the potency to the mycelium.
RR


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Offlineresptodd
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Re: substrate potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7828996 - 01/03/08 07:09 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

RR, what do you mean--Fungi are more closely related to humans than to plants? I just find this interesting. Could you elaborate?


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: substrate potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7829061 - 01/03/08 07:18 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

as for the white/brown rice thing....white rice produces inactive mushrooms and brown rice produces active mushrooms, the reason for this is the nutrients required for mushrooms to produce alkaloids lies in the brown rice shell.





Don't spread disinformation on the board simply because you read where some noob posted that ridiculous crap somewhere else. White rice does not produce inactive mushrooms, and the nutrients that 'cause' potency do not reside in the shell of the brown rice.

Quote:

but i can tell you that nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and calcium definitely couldn't hurt your chances. as long as you don't use too much that is



NPK applies to plants, NOT fungi. Fungi are much more closely related to humans than to plants. Would you drink Miracle Grow for breakfast?

This subject has been written on extensively. The search feature here is your friend. Potency is genetic. Build your substrates with the food fungi needs, and leave the potency to the mycelium.
RR




Look what happens when u use the search feature (i should have before replying to this topic)

Its only a snippet but was the first usefull peice of information i found, which just so happened to be the first topic on the list when search

"white rice potency"

This is a comparison chart between brown and white rice:
http://www.lundberg.com/brownrice.html


Brown Rice White Rice
1 cup 1 cup
Calories 232 223
Protein 4.88 g 4.10 g
Carbohydrate 49.7 g 49.6 g
Fat 1.17 g 0.205 g
Dietary Fiber 3.32 g 0.74 g
Thiamin (B1) 0.223 mg 0.176 mg
Riboflavin (B2) 0.039 mg 0.021 mg
Niacin (B3) 2.730 mg 2.050 mg
Vitamin B6 0.294 mg 0.103 mg
Folacin 10 mcg 4.1 mcg
Vitamin E 1.4 mg 0.462 mg
Magnesium 72.2 mg 22.6 mg
Phosphorus 142 mg 57.4 mg
Potassium 137 mg 57.4 mg
Selenium 26 mg 19 mg
Zinc 1.05 mg 0.841 mg

ok i also just found this,

The difference between brown rice and white rice is not just color.


The difference between brown rice and white rice is not just color. A whole grain of rice has several layers. Only the outermost layer, the hull, is removed to produce what we call brown rice. This process is the least damaging to the nutritional value of the rice and avoids the unnecessary loss of nutrients that occurs with further processing. If brown rice is further milled to remove the bran and most of the germ layer, the result is a whiter rice, but also a rice that has lost many more nutrients. At this point, however, the rice is still unpolished, and it takes polishing to produce the white rice we are used to seeing. Polishing removes the aleurone layer of the grain - a layer filled with health-supportive, essential fats. Because these fats, once exposed to air by the refining process, are highly susceptible to oxidation, this layer is removed to extend the shelf life of the product. The resulting white rice is simply a refined starch that is largely bereft of its original nutrients.

am i right in thinking that thos fats that have been removed have something to do with it result in poor potency?


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


Edited by veda_sticks (01/03/08 07:24 PM)


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Offlinelaten
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Re: substrate potency [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7829249 - 01/03/08 07:45 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Its like saying I have more serotonin in my brain because i have a good diet. You see?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: substrate potency [Re: resptodd]
    #7829321 - 01/03/08 08:02 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

resptodd said:
RR, what do you mean--Fungi are more closely related to humans than to plants? I just find this interesting. Could you elaborate?




Google it and you'll get more, but to start, mushroom mycelium consumes oxygen and releases the carbon in its food as CO2, just like humans. Plants do the opposite. Mushroom mycelium produces heat as it metabolizes its food, just like humans. Plants get energy from the sun, but mushroom mycelium gets energy from its food source, just like humans.
RR


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InvisibleDoomhammer
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Re: substrate potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7829376 - 01/03/08 08:16 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Also, many mushrooms consume massive quantities of shit for lunch, just like many humans do.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: substrate potency [Re: Doomhammer]
    #7829424 - 01/03/08 08:25 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Doomhammer said:
Also, many mushrooms consume massive quantities of shit for lunch, just like many humans do.




HAHAHAHA

Ok stop RR you must be getting sick of answering these silly questions. I say u just leave us noobs for a few weeks until we start looking for ourselfs, or some other poor sap answers our questions


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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OfflineNibin
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Re: substrate potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7832546 - 01/04/08 04:20 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

Don't spread disinformation on the board simply because you read where some noob posted that ridiculous crap somewhere else. White rice does not produce inactive mushrooms, and the nutrients that 'cause' potency do not reside in the shell of the brown rice.


RR




So what is the end line on this then RR? Does White rice produce less active fruits or not? Does the nutritional content of brown rice have any importance? Would the thiamin deficiency of white rice vs brown be important? I'm thinking of thiamin because Beri-beri is a common illness caused by eating white rice instead of brown.


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Offlineresptodd
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Re: substrate potency [Re: Nibin]
    #7832567 - 01/04/08 04:26 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Woah Nibin, do you have any more info on this subject? I find it all quite interesting, the idea of active vs nonactive PCs because of substrate(food). I would love to keep this thread going and gather as much info as possible. Possibly finding a substrate that definitely enhances potency. All and any vitamins and minerals involved. Nibin what's up with the thiamin your speaking of?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: substrate potency [Re: resptodd]
    #7832622 - 01/04/08 04:39 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

White rice does NOT result in inactive cubensis. Period. I know that for a fact. It's a piss-poor choice of substrate, but what little fruits you get are normal potency.
RR


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OfflineNibin
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Re: substrate potency [Re: resptodd]
    #7832635 - 01/04/08 04:42 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

resptodd said:
Woah Nibin, do you have any more info on this subject? I find it all quite interesting, the idea of active vs nonactive PCs because of substrate(food). I would love to keep this thread going and gather as much info as possible. Possibly finding a substrate that definitely enhances potency. All and any vitamins and minerals involved. Nibin what's up with the thiamin your speaking of?




Thiamine, also known as vitamin b1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine

Beri-Beri, an illness due to B1 defficiency in HUMANS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beri-beri

The thing is, what is a vitamin in humans doesn't necessarily have to be a vitamin for other species. For example, yeast produces it's own thiamine (and is a thiamine dietary source for us)

I don't know enough about fungal metabolism to know if cubes need thiamine in their diet or not.


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Re: substrate potency [Re: Nibin]
    #7832831 - 01/04/08 05:35 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Potency is determined by genes, not noots, which determine yield.


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Offlineresptodd
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Re: substrate potency [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7833446 - 01/04/08 08:27 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

When RR says white rice is shit for substrate---I am new, so I have to ask------Why?


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Offlinemushnoon
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Re: substrate potency [Re: resptodd]
    #7833465 - 01/04/08 08:32 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

it doestn have enough of the nutrients necessary for good mycelium growth.


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